Chapter 1: Of the Beginning of Time

[Findegil]

So the 9.58 will be removed.

Aiwendil wrote:

And I very much prefer to have all this description of the dwellings and behaviour of the Valar together, ...

That is a valid argument to which I can agree. What follows in AAm (so it si in the next section) are the journeys of Yavanna and Ororme to Middle-earth. That means we follow still the structure of AAm but use Ainulindalë D and add to that from LT.

Bot-24, BoT-25: Nice edit, I think we should go with it.

Good research of the elements of the names, ArcusCalion. I am not against the names. If your research confinced Aiwendil that they are useabel, that is okay for me.

Respectfully
Findegil

[Aiwendil]

Originally Posted by ArcusCalion

It seems a shame to lose the names, and I see no reason that they are not valid. Kulullin contains the elements kulu- and -lin, which mean "gold" and "a musical sound" respectively. Culu is a valid word for gold (the metal) in later Quenya, and is an element in one of the names of Laurelin (Culumalda, although culuma might mean orange, the element culu- is clearly related to gold.) Lin is a perfectly valid word in later Quenya. If the name needs updating at all, it would simply be to change the double "l" to a single one, but even that seems unnecessary to me. Silindrin is said to mean "Moon Cauldron" by Christopher Tolkien, and the element sil- is the "Qenya" term for moon, which in Quenya is "Isil." however, the verb silë in Quenya means "to shine," and could be used in a compound. -ndrin is less clear. There is no clear etymology for it, but using CT's analysis, it could mean cauldron. In "Qenya" we have the word tambë for cauldron, with a Gnomish cognate as tambos. However, this word does not reappear in Quenya or Sindarin, and so may not be valid. Thus, -ndrin could be easily thought to be an element denoting "cauldron" in Quenya, although the phonology is not up to date. Similar to the way Gwarestrin -> Gwarestirin in our version, we could do Silindrin -> Silindirin. As it is though, these names are not too difficult to salvage, and it would be a shame to lose them.

I was mainly concerned with the phonology of the two names, but I suppose that Cululin and Silindirin could work, meaning something like "gold song" and "shining cauldron". My Quenya is rusty, but I don't see any obvious problems.

I think we've settled the main issues for these chapters. I'd be happy to try to put together a new draft in the next few days, unless someone else would like to do that.

[Findegil]

I will not have much time to work in the next week, so if you have the hope to find time for it earlier, that is fine for me.

Respectfully
Findegil

[Aiwendil]

Sounds good. I should be able to have a revised draft done in the next few days.

[Aiwendil]

Here is my new draft for chapter 1. I have kept most of Findegil's edit numbers, though in some cases where the edit has changed significantly, I've added a distinguishing letter.

Normal Text is from the basic text that is mentioned above.
Bold Text = source information, comments and remarks
{to be deleted} = text that should be deleted
[ ] = normalised text
<source > = additions with source information
underlined = text inserted for grammatical reason
/ / = outline expansion

BoT-01 <AAm
1 Of the Beginning of Time
>BoT-02 <MT, 2 After the Valar, who before were the Ainur of the Great Song, entered into Eä . . .

Chief of the Valar of Arda was he whom the Eldar afterwards named Manwë, the Blessed: the Elder King, since he was the first of all kings in {[Arda >] }Eä. … that is: that comes from wills and being{ [sic]} that are other than Arda itself.

And as is known well, the prime among these is Melkor. . . .

As a shadow Melkor did not then conceive himself. . . . And Melkor was jealous, therefore, of all other brightnesses, and wished to take all light unto himself. BoT-02.5 {Therefore Ilúvatar, at the entering in of the Valar into Eä, added a theme to the Great Song which was not in it at the first Singing, and he called one of the Ainur to him. . . . and the giving would be void.}

When therefore at last Melkor discovered the abiding place of Manwë and his friends he went thither in great haste, as a blazing fire. And finding that already great labours had been achieved without his counsel, he was angered, and desired to undo what was done or to alter it according to his own mind,> BoT-03<Ainulindalë D and he said to the Valar: 'This shall be my own kingdom! And I name it unto myself!'

But Manwë was the brother of Melkor in the mind of Ilúvatar, . . . And Manwë said unto Melkor: 'This kingdom thou shalt not take for thine own, wrongfully, for many others have laboured here {no less than thou}.' And there was strife between Melkor and the Valar{, and for a time Melkor departed and withdrew to other regions and did there what he would, but he did not put the desire of the kingdom of Arda from his heart}.>

AINU-11 <Ainulidale D Thus began the first battle of the Valar and Melkor for the dominion of Arda; and of those tumults {we}[the Elves] know but little;{ for know thou, Ælfwine,} what {I have}[has been] declared{ unto thee} is come from the Valar themselves, with whom{ we of} the Eldalië spoke in the land of Valinor, and {we were}[by whom they were] instructed{ by them}; but little would {they}[the Valar] ever tell of the days of war ere the coming of the Elves. But this {said Rúmil in the end of the Ainulindalë which I have recounted to thee:} BoT-04 <Ainulidale D {This} tale {I have heard also among}[was learned from] the lore masters in ages past. For they tell us that the war began before Arda was full-shaped, and ere yet there was anything that grew or walked upon earth, and for long Melkor had the upper hand.>{that the}The Valar endeavoured ever, in despite of Melkor, to rule the Earth and to prepare it for the coming of the Firstborn; . . . slowly nonetheless the Earth was fashioned and made firm.>

BoT-06b <AAm It came to pass that hearing afar of the war in Arda Tulkas the Strong came thither out of distant regions of Ëa to the aid of Manwë. Then Arda was filled with the sound of his laughter, but he turned a face of anger towards Melkor; and Melkor fled before his wrath and his mirth, and forsook Arda.{, and there was a long peace.}> BoT-08 <MT II This is named the First Battle; and though Manwë had the victory, great hurt was done to the work of the Valar.> BoT-8.6 <Ainulindalë D Thereafter there was peace for a long age. And Tulkas remained and became one of the Valar of the kingdom of Arda; but Melkor brooded in the outer darkness, and his hate was given to Tulkas for ever after{.},> BoT-09<Ainulidale D but he did not put the desire of the kingdom of Arda from his heart.>

BoT-10<Ainulidale D But the Valar now took to themselves shape and hue; . . . even as with us male and female may be shown by the raiment, but is not made thereby. BoT-11 <Words, Phrases and Passages- Eldarin roots and stems, PE17 <The fanar <taken from above [or "raiment"]> of the Great Valar were said, by the Elves who had dwelt in Valinor, usually to have had a stature greater than that of tallest Elves, and when performing some great deed, or issuing great commands, to have assumed an awe-inspiring height.>

BoT-12{And Manwë and Ulmo and Aulë were as Kings; but Varda was the Queen of the Valar, and the spouse of Manwë, and her beauty was high and terrible and of great reverence. Yavanna was her sister, and Yavanna espoused Aulë; but Nienna dwells alone, even as does Ulmo. And these with Melkor are the Seven Great Ones of the Kingdom of Arda. }AINU-09 But{ think not, Ælfwine, that} the shapes wherein the AINU-10 Great Ones array themselves are not at all times like unto the shapes of kings and queens of the Children of Ilúvatar; for at whiles they may clothe them in their own thought, made visible in forms terrible and wonderful. And {I myself}, long years agone, in the land of the Valar {have seen }Yavanna has been seen in the likeness of a Tree; and the beauty and majesty of that form could not be told in words, not unless all the things that grow in the earth, from the least unto the greatest, should sing in choir together, making unto their queen an offering of song to be laid before the throne of Ilúvatar.>

BoT-13b <AAm Now the Valar began their labours anew; . . . Aulë therefore wrought two great lamps, as it were of silver and of gold and yet translucent, and Varda filled them with hallowed fire, to give light to the Earth.> BoT-13.5 <Ainulindalë D {and}And the Valar set them upon high pillars, more lofty far than are any mountains of the later days. One lamp they raised near to the North of Middle-earth, and it was named {[Forontë >]} Illuin; and the other was raised in the South, and it was named {[Hyarantë >]} Ormal; and the light of the Lamps of the Valar flowed out over the Earth, so that all was lit as it were in a changeless Day.

Then the seeds that Yavanna had sown began swiftly to sprout and to burgeon. . . And beasts {[struck out: and birds]} came forth and dwelt in the grassy plains, . . . for these things waited still their time in the bosom of {Palúrien}[Kementári]; but wealth there was of her imagining, . . . And there upon the Isle of Almaren in the Great Lake was the first dwelling of the {gods}[Valar] when all things were young, and new-made green was yet a marvel in the eyes of the makers{; and they were long content}.> BoT-15 <AAm But the Valar were seldom there gathered in company, for ever they would fare abroad in Arda, each in his own business.

And it came to pass that at last the Valar were content, . . . in the days of their labour.>

BoT-15.1 <AAm* Now Melkor knew of all that was done; . . . he resolved to destroy it.>

<Now therefore the Valar were gathered upon Almaren . . .

Then Tulkas slept, being weary and content, and Melkor deemed that his hour had come. And he passed, therefore, over the Walls of BoT-15.2{the} Night with his host, and he came to Middle-earth in the North; and the Valar were not aware of him. BoT-15.5 <Ainulindalë D {and}And he {also} took visible form, but because of his mood, and the malice that increased in him, that form was dark and terrible. And he descended upon Earth in power and majesty greater than any other of the Valar, as a mountain that wades in the sea and has its head above the clouds and is clad in ice and crowned with fire and smoke; and the light of his eyes was like a flame that withers with heat and pierces with a deadly cold.>

BoT-15.6 {Now Melkor began the delving and building of a vast fortress deep under Earth, beneath dark mountains where the light of Illuin was dim. That stronghold was named Utumno. And though the Valar knew nought of it as yet,} <AAm* Now Melkor began the delving and building of a vast fortress deep under the Earth, {[struck out: beneath the roots of]} far from the light of Illuin; and he raised great mountains above his halls. That stronghold was after called Utumno the Deep-hidden; and though the Valar for a long time knew nothing of it nonetheless the evil of Melkor and the blight of his hatred flowed out thence, and the Spring of Arda was marred>[ b]BoT-16[/b]<Ainulidale D §32{Thence he sent forth his power and turned again to evil much that had been well begun}; so that green things fell sick and rotted, . . . and beasts became monsters of horn and ivory and dyed the earth with blood.> BoT-17 <MT; 2 The Valar therefore, when they became aware by the signs of evil that were seen upon Earth that Melkor had stolen back, sought in vain for him, though {Tulcas}[Tulkas] and Oromë went wide over Middle-earth even to the uttermost East.>

BoT-21 <AAm But Melkor, trusting in the strength of Utumno and the might of his servants, came forth suddenly to war, and struck the first blow, ere the Valar were prepared. {And}[He came down like a black storm from the North, and] he assailed the lights of Illuin and Ormal, . . .

In the confusion and the darkness Melkor escaped, though fear fell upon him; . . . But he came to Utumno ere Tulkas could overtake him; and there he lay hid. BoT-24 And the Valar could not at that time overcome him, for <LQ {In the darkness and the confusion of the seas the Valar could not at that time overcome Melkor; for} his strength had increased with his malice, and he had now gathered to his service many other spirits, and many evil things also of his own making.> And moreover the greater part of their strength was needed to restrain the tumults of the Earth, . . . where the Children of Ilúvatar were dwelling{, who were yet to come in a time that was hidden from the Valar.}>

BoT-01: We had agreed to use ‘Of the Beginning of Time’ as the title for the first chapter, taken from the heading in AAm, ‘Of the beginning of time and its reckoning’.

BoT-02: We agreed to retain this extract from MT.

BoT-02.5: I’ve taken out this section from MT, since it is part of the ‘Primeval Light’ story.

BoT-03: I altered the editing slightly from Findegil’s version to make the join between MT and Ainulindale smoother.

AINU-11: These changes were agreed on in the Ainulindalë thread.

BoT-04: I retained the ‘For they tell us that’ that Findegil deleted; I think this is fine since we still say this information comes from the loremasters.

BoT-05: I omitted this addition, because looking at it now it seems redundant with the preceding passage from the Ainulindalë.

BoT-06b: I take Tulkas’s entrance from AAm.

BoT-08: This sentence from MT II doesn’t add much, but I see no problem with it either. We could leave it out or put it in.

BoT-08.6: From the Ainulindalë I take the statement that Tulkas became one of the Valar, a detail missing in AAm.

BoT-09: I edited this very slightly differently from Findegil, combining sentences instead of starting a new one.

BoT-10: As in Findegil’s draft.

BoT-11: As in Findegil’s draft.

BoT-12: As in Findegil’s draft.

AINU-09: As in Findegil’s draft.

AINU-10: As in Findegil’s draft.

BoT-13b, -13.5: I use AAm and Ainulindalë for the making of the Lamps, which I think chops the text up less.

BoT-15: As in Findegil’s draft.

BoT-15.1: This paragraph from AAm was emended in the typescript AAm*, and we should use the final version.

BoT-15.2: Change of ‘Walls of the Night’ to ‘Walls of Night’ from the typescript AAm*

BoT-15.5: I’ve moved this passage telling of Melkor taking physical form (Findegil’s BoT-20) slightly. In Findegil’s version, we tell that he re-enters Arda and delves Utumno and then say that he takes physical form; this requires a change to the statement that he ‘descended upon Earth’. I think that, in contrast, the Ainulindalë (from which the passage comes) suggests that he assumed physical form immediately before re-entering Arda - hence ‘descending’.

BoT-15.6: The beginning of this paragraph was emended in AAm*.

BoT-16: As in Findegil’s draft.

BoT-17: As in Findegil’s draft.

BoT-19: I omit this, as it is redundant with what follows from AAm.

BoT-20: Moved to become BoT-15.5

BoT-21: Without the BoT-20 passage intervening, there’s no need to change ‘But’ to ‘And’. I also incorporate a change from AAm* here.

BoT-24: As discussed above, I merge the AAm and LQ versions here. Also, the last phrase here was omitted in the typescript AAm*, so I omit it here.

[ArcusCalion]

I have prepared some comments, and this post actually turned out far shorter than I expected. I think this draft was actually a great improvement over the first one, and I am extremely excited about it.

Bot-03: Where it says "fields of Aman" it should be "Arda."

BoT-04: after "so would Melkor undo or corrupt it." I would add in Fin's BoT-05:

.... Valar began a labour so would Melkor undo it or corrupt it. BoT-05 <AAm And Melkor wrought great ruin with fire and deadly cold and marred all that the other Valar made.> And yet their labour was not all in vain; ...

This is a nice detail that I miss.

BoT-06b: I miss the longer LQ description of Tulkas' coming. It conveys his personality and description so much more fully and charismatically:

But in the midst of the war a spirit of great strength and hardihood came to the aid of the Valar, hearing in the distant heaven that there was battle in the Little Kingdom. And he came like a storm of laughter and loud song, and Earth shook under his great golden feet. So came Tulkas, the Strong and the Merry, whose anger passeth like a mighty wind, scattering cloud and darkness before it.

Maybe we could use a combination of the two? I greatly prefer the longer LQ version over the briefer AAm version, so if we must pick one I say we use that one.

BoT-08: This seems redundant, and adds no information, simply repeating things already said in the last paragraph.

BoT-08.6: what about

BoT-08.5 <MT; 2; Outline It was in the wielding of flame that Tulkas {(? originally Vala of the Sun) }defeated {him}Melkor in the First Battle.>

Is this considered too minor to mention?

BoT-13b: i somewhat miss the turns of phrase in Fin's version, but there is no real reason not to use yours

BoT-15.1: in the AAm insert, as I said to Fin, Vana cannot robe Nessa in flowers, as it has been said that flowers have not come forth yet on earth, so we decided to change it to "signs of spring".

BoT-21: what is the source of your replacement for the "And" in the second sentence?

[Aiwendil]

Originally Posted by ArcusCalion

I have prepared some comments, and this post actually turned out far shorter than I expected. I think this draft was actually a great improvement over the first one, and I am extremely excited about it.

Yes, I'm feeling pretty good about this draft overall as well. It just goes to show how much better the result is when we combine our efforts!

Bot-03: Where it says "fields of Aman" it should be "Arda."

Thanks. Missed that one.

BoT-04: after "so would Melkor undo or corrupt it." I would add in Fin's BoT-05: This is a nice detail that I miss.

How about this:

BoT-04 <Ainulidale D {This} tale {I have heard also among}[was learned from] the lore masters in ages past. For they tell us that the war began before Arda was full-shaped, and ere yet there was anything that grew or walked upon earth, and for long Melkor had the upper hand{.}, and><AAm great ruin with fire and deadly cold {and marred all that the other Valar made}.>{that the}The Valar endeavoured ever, in despite of Melkor, to rule the Earth and to prepare it for the coming of the Firstborn; . . .

The reason I omit the "and marred all that the other Valar had made" is that the passage that follows describes this marring in greater detail. But this captures the detail from AAm that he wielded fire and deadly cold.

BoT-06b: I miss the longer LQ description of Tulkas' coming. It conveys his personality and description so much more fully and charismatically: Maybe we could use a combination of the two? I greatly prefer the longer LQ version over the briefer AAm version, so if we must pick one I say we use that one.

I think you mean the Ainulindale? I think using the Ainulindale version is fine:

BoT-06c <Ainulindale D But in the midst of the war a spirit of great strength and hardihood came to the aid of the Valar, hearing in the far heaven that there was battle in the Little World. And he came like a storm of laughter and loud song, and Earth shook under his great golden feet. So came Tulkas, the Strong and the Merry, whose anger passeth like a mighty wind, scattering cloud and darkness before it. And Melkor was shaken by the laughter of Tulkas, and fled from the Earth{;}.{, and there was a long peace.}>

I'd rather either use the Ainulindale version or the AAm version as a whole rather than mix them.

BoT-08: This seems redundant, and adds no information, simply repeating things already said in the last paragraph.

Omitting it is fine with me; actually I think I prefer to omit it. But I don't feel strongly about it, and if Findegil or someone else thinks it's valuable, I don't mind it.

BoT-08.6: what about

Is this considered too minor to mention?

I omitted it for two reasons. First, the style is that of an informal comment on the story, rather than part of the narrative itself, so it feels stylistically very out of place. Second, it seems to me that this is related to the new story in MT II (giving new importance to Melkor's attitude toward light, flame, and the sun) and to the speculative (and quickly rejected) association of Tulkas with the sun. All in all, I think that for the small detail it provides, it's not worth including.

BoT-13b: i somewhat miss the turns of phrase in Fin's version, but there is no real reason not to use yours

My goal here was to do less chopping up of the text and to give preference to AAm except where the other texts provide substantial new details. But I'm certainly open to other arrangements of the text here.

BoT-15.1: in the AAm insert, as I said to Fin, Vana cannot robe Nessa in flowers, as it has been said that flowers have not come forth yet on earth, so we decided to change it to "signs of spring".

Ah, well caught! And sorry I missed that in your discussion. I must say, I find "signs of spring" a bit weaselly, though. What signs of spring could one be robed with other than flowers? I'd instead err on the side of just omitting that line.

BoT-21: what is the source of your replacement for the "And" in the second sentence?

It's from the incomplete AAm* typescript made by Tolkien (given after the main version of AAm in HoMe X). Since this was made by Tolkien himself, and he introduced changes in it, whereas the full typescript of AAm was made by an assistant from the manuscript, I think AAm* clearly has priority where the two diverge.