Werewolf CXII - Dueling Wizards III - The Living Thread

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Nope, that should give the Dead enough options to play with.
Btw - do they decide to empower before or after the votes?

It happens during the Day, so before/during the votes- but we won't know until afterwards.

Originally Posted by The Rules

After there are TWO residents of the Dead Thread, every DAY the dead get to vote on giving one of the living an extra vote. The dead are subject to the same deadline as the living. The living will not know who among them will get an extra vote until it is revealed in the closing narration of the DAY.

[Pervinca Took]

No objections.

[Lalaith]

So the Dead will empower someone BEFORE they know what way that person is voting or if indeed that person is going to vote at all?

[Mithalwen]

At the risk of seeming a complete cow the extra bod should go in the last category if it must be Alphabetical order has clumped unreliable voters with a debutant player which the Dead may not find ideal. Sign up order would be preferable. Otherwise I would agree to anything just to get a different topic of conversation. I am about ready to do a Boro. Is this a personality trait to be so obsessive or some kind of distraction technique?

[Lalaith]

a different topic of conversation

Darling Mith, you're about to get one, I'm going to be posting something about the Wizards and the roles and stuff very shortly....

[Mithalwen]

Please before I rip off an arm and beat myself to death with the wet end.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Proposed Empowerment List

ZIL = PREY
Boromir88
Brinniel
Eomer of the Rohirrim
Eönwë
Lalaith

ZIL = PREDATOR
Legate of Amon Lanc
Loslote
Mithalwen
Nerwen

NONE OF THE ABOVE
Nogrod
Pervinca Took
satansaloser2005
Shastanis Althreduin

Any objections?

Starting the day with this so I don't forget. This sounds fine.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Lommy cast suspicion on Loslote very early on.

Eonwe calls Lommy out for this.

Interestingly, on Day 2, Lommy was then the first to jump onto Loslote's suggestion that Eonwe had 'changed' in Day 2 (post #221) and proceeded to cast the first vote for Eonwe.

Even on Day 1 (post #61) she brings the same thing up, making this comment for Eonwe: "if I was dead I'd empower him" The explicit nature of this comment is fascinating.

My thinking is that the second lynch seems like more of a set-up than the first.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Apologies, I meant the second night-kill, not lynch. Meaning Lommy's death sets up Eonwe.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

So the Dead will empower someone BEFORE they know what way that person is voting or if indeed that person is going to vote at all?

Before or after, I think - they simply vote at any time they want, and during the final calculation, it is all taken into account.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Proposed Empowerment List

ZIL = PREY
Boromir88
Brinniel
Eomer of the Rohirrim
Eönwë
Lalaith

ZIL = PREDATOR
Legate of Amon Lanc
Loslote
Mithalwen
Nerwen

NONE OF THE ABOVE
Nogrod
Pervinca Took
satansaloser2005
Shastanis Althreduin

Any objections?

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

At the risk of seeming a complete cow the extra bod should go in the last category if it must be Alphabetical order has clumped unreliable voters with a debutant player which the Dead may not find ideal. Sign up order would be preferable.

At the risk, I actually see what Mith means here. But maybe we should just try not to let this fall into another two-hour debate and hope the Dead would be able to pick somebody? I mean Pervinca is a new player, sure, Nog's opinion on the whole thing notwithstanding he is probably going to vote, Shasta has posted thus can be expected to vote, Sally likewise plus she needs to vote so she doesn't get modfired... I think we could leave it at that. (Also I don't want to now spend more time researching what was the signup order etc. But maybe we can use it toMorrow?)

Originally Posted by Mith

Otherwise I would agree to anything just to get a different topic of conversation. I am about ready to do a Boro. Is this a personality trait to be so obsessive or some kind of distraction technique?

It's important, but once we get this done, we can focus on the Day's content and all. It's next on my list.

EDIT: x-ed with two Eomers

[Mithalwen]

I know it is important but it is now 2/3 of the way through the day and we have not really discussed much that will affect our votes today in favour of finding something out after day's end.

[Lalaith]

Anyway, here are my thoughts about the wizards...as we are on Day 3 which I believe is technically the first day we could see a Weeeeeezaaaaard’s Duuuuel.

For both EW and GW, as far as I read the rules, creating roles is as good as scrying - because trying to 'turn' the other wizard will reveal them.
For the GW, Gifted are a nice bonus but not essential to winning. At the beginning of the game, the numbers are on his/her side.
However, the EW, to improve chances of victory, needs to make as many wolves as possible and keep them live if s/he can.
So not creating wolves some nights or rushing to send wolves to the Dead Thread would be rather reckless policy and I am going to assume that the EW has been creating all the wolves s/he can.
(From this, it would also follow that even if the EW discovers the GW s/he might hold fire on the duel, and would be more worried about keeping their identity hidden.)

So, at this stage, therefore, after three Nights, chances are we could have the maximum permitted pack of wolves (ie 3) in our midst - the EW would be creating or at least trying to, each night. Of course, any one of following things could mean we have fewer than 3:
* if Zil was a wolf
* if there is a Ranger and s/he protected another player from conversion
* if the EW tried to turn a gifted
* if the EW tried to turn the GW

Anyway, the other thing I was thinking was that the baddies might be worried by now about a Hunter being amongst us. They killed Lommy, and Lommy suspected Zil and Nerwen, also Eonwe who she voted for. Presumably, the wolves killed her without worry that a Hunter-Lommy might take one of them down. So, should we feel less worried about Eonwe and Nerwen as a result of this?

And finally - this is directed at my fellow innocents - if you haven't been turned yet, it might be worth wondering why. The wolves wouldn't necessarily want a new member of the pack suddenly turning their suspicions around.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Basically, my guess is that we've probably got 3 wolves now, but Eonwe is not one of them, because the Lommy kill puts Eonwe firmly in the spotlight. I doubt Inzil was a wolf, but we might find that out soon.

My top suspect for evil puppet-master is still Loslote.

There are unfortunately lots of excellent wolf-candidates now. Shasta, Sally, Mith, Brinniel and Lalaith would have been my top choices on Nights 2 & 3 (let alone Night 1!). 2 wolves in that lot, put money on it!

[Nerwen]

So I was going to do a proper analysis of Lommy, but ran out of time- toDay has been somewhat difficult for me as far as participation goes. She was rather similar to Morsul in being an active player who was not widely suspected; different in that she herself had a range of suspects, which she listed both Days.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien, Day One

Nerwen - seems like normal self
Inziladun - seems like normal self
Loslote - kinda shady but not necessarily (probably?) evil
Boromir88 - probably the most eyebrow villager so far, the overtly cheerful banter seems a bit off (I don't want to say you're not allowed to have fun but something about his behaviour seems like an act)
Shastanis Althreduin - I'll facebook message him too oops
satansaloser2005 - not here not judging
Eomer of the Rohirrim - predictably rubs me the wrong way, ignoring that
Morsul the Dark - seems innocent?
Lalaith - not here not judging
Legate of Amon Lanc - seems like normal self
Mithalwen - seems like normal self
Eönwë - if I was dead I'd empower him
Nogrod - not here not judging
Pervencia Took - not here not judging
Brinniel - seems like normal self

Voted Boro.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien, Day Two

Innocent
Legate and Mithalwen - seem like their normal innocent selves, haven't said anything particularly eyebrow-raising.
Eomer - he rubs me the wrong way with everything he says, so it is as it should be. The way he commented on the Nerwen-Inzil spat sounded very genuine and innocent to me too.

Idk
Boro and Lottie - yesterDay was weird. I would like to wait at least one more Day and see. But Boro is certainly fishier than Lottie and seems to have a death wish, so out of the two I'd vote for him again.
Lalaith - she's hard to read.
Nogrod - aka the advocate of the dead I initially thought his tone was off but it's been getting better. I'm watching him but wouldn't like to lynch him yet.
Brinniel and Shasta and Sally - they are all under my radar atm, will need to pay more attention toMorrow.
Pervencia - where is she (again)?

Suspicious
Nerwen and Zil - I don't like the way the spat escalated, it actually made me think of those times two wolves thought it would be "logical" to suspect each other and went for it and nobody who was actually innocent thought it was logical.
Eönwë - it's maybe not the fairest or best of arguments, but he'd have been a very logical wolf convert pick. Has been markedly guarded toDay and continues to talk about the dead thread which is useful (I really appreciate someone trying to work out a system, I do!) but also conveninetly something else than finding wolves/EW, which is especially bad this late.

Voted Eönwë.

[Mithalwen]

Oh come on Eomer. Since when have I been an excellent wolf choice? I have only survived once which was a fluke. Apart from being founder member with darling Anguirel of the Fenris pack, my main claim to fame was revealing out of sheer boredom.. Noone in their right mind would actually choose me.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

That said, I think it is better to include the "none of the above/something else" option rather than the "they voted each other/they voted themselves" option, because does that really tell us anything?

It does, but on consideration I agree with everyone else here that it's better to keep the groups to choose from large, in case of someone failing to vote or sneaky group/category manipulation by someone who knows more than we do. Better to get some definite information now than no information, and hope that if things were complicated, the visitor will be able to tell us why.

On which note, a question for Kuru: Will it be clear from the narration whether someone is killed or is a Visitor Who Leaves?

[Lalaith]

she herself had a range of suspects, which she listed both Days.

Which is why I was putting forward the tentative theory that wolves might chose her as a potential Hunter who was unlikely to cause them harm.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

Equal to or outnumber.

Another question for Kuru: If both wizards are still living, does 'equal to or outnumber' include the EW?

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

On which note, a question for Kuru: Will it be clear from the narration whether someone is killed or is a Visitor Who Leaves?

I wouldn't indicate who was who, but there would be two people going into the Dead Thread at once (probably) so it should be fairly apparent something odd has happened.

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Another question for Kuru: If both wizards are still living, does 'equal to or outnumber' include the EW?

Yes.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Ok, going through Lommy's posts:

During Day 1, her first suspicion whatsoever was towards Lottie for discussing possible EW strategies, although she was being flip-floppy about that (several times in several posts). She also very strongly advocated for a vote and she was also the first one to actually go through with it. She found Boro the most eyebrow-rising, said about Eönwë "if I was dead I'd empower him" and called him a new phantom in the next post for his elaborate plans on Dead communication.

On Day 2, she expressed puzzlement on the death of Morsul, pointed out that it points at Lottie, but that such a conclusion would be hasty. Continues to think Boro "shady".

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

First off, I'm a bit puzzled by the choice of Morsul. It does lead tracks to Lottie, but that seems like a hasty conclusion - especially in a game with no seer. I'm sorry but my first idea of "why Morsul" is because in the last dead thread game he was (at least from my pov) majorly confusing the communication between the living and the dead, so maybe the baddies are wishing for a reprise. Or maybe they just wanted an entertaining start to the dead thread.

Also the vote yesterDay was a bit of a fiasco. I'm looking at Boro especially, who has continued being very shady toDay. Would it make any sense for the EW to act cobblerish and try to make people not take him seriously????

After that, there started a very long argument against Nogrod's lack of faith in the Dead thread. At the same time, she was posting many generally helpful suggestions (try to prevent a tie etc.) which made her (in my opinion) look more innocent. This might have been one factor for her death.

She also pretty much dismissed the idea of Wolves killing Wolves.

There also came her initial reaction to the Inzil-Nerwen incident, which went like this:

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I don't understand why what Zil said would have been a slip?? And the suddenly escalated Zil-Nerwen spat is very interesting. Doesn't make either of them look better in my book tbh.

Afterwards, she had more to say to Nogrod about the dead-strategy discussion, some unclarities about Boro (but it doesn't look like she would suspect him), and agreeing with Lalaith once again that Wolves killing Wolves doesn't make any sense. Then, in relation to Eönwë's "conspiracy theory" about Boro-Wolf and EW-Lottie, she said:

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I think that's not semi-crazy, that's actually one of the few theories that makes sense. It just seems quite unlikely that our top lynch candidates would have been the wolf and the EW, and bold of them to play it this way. But that's one of the reasons I haven't been too keen on scrutinizing Boro and Lottie toDay - we shouldn't get fixated on this logical but rather wild scenario.

In the same post, however, she continued:

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

And I agree very much with Lottie about Eönwë. There's something about him that's different, and he would have been a good (but obviously also short-sighted) pick from the EW. I mean picking the villager that is the most widely trusted/ considered reasonable/productive is great if it works but not exactly sneaky. But in this case I wouldn't be surprised... which kinda sucks for Eönwë of course if it's true - imagine being such a good good guy that you're turned evil and then lynched because you were the obvious choice because you were so good?

Which was the suspicion for Eönwë which appeared yesterDay and based on which (presumably) Lommy eventually also voted him. Then she said she didn't understand what the Nerwen-Zilcident was about:

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Now can someone please explain it to me too. I have read it 2 times and I still didn't see Zil saying anything weird.

She also wasn't entirely convinced by Lottie about Eönwë being shady.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

That could be considered fishy, but given that he loudly advocated no lynch on Day1 it's not half as shady as you make it sound.

After this, she posted a list of people (post #236). Ok, I can quote it in full:

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Innocent
Legate and Mithalwen - seem like their normal innocent selves, haven't said anything particularly eyebrow-raising.
Eomer - he rubs me the wrong way with everything he says, so it is as it should be. The way he commented on the Nerwen-Inzil spat sounded very genuine and innocent to me too.

Idk
Boro and Lottie - yesterDay was weird. I would like to wait at least one more Day and see. But Boro is certainly fishier than Lottie and seems to have a death wish, so out of the two I'd vote for him again.
Lalaith - she's hard to read.
Nogrod - aka the advocate of the dead I initially thought his tone was off but it's been getting better. I'm watching him but wouldn't like to lynch him yet.
Brinniel and Shasta and Sally - they are all under my radar atm, will need to pay more attention toMorrow.
Pervencia - where is she (again)?

Suspicious
Nerwen and Zil - I don't like the way the spat escalated, it actually made me think of those times two wolves thought it would be "logical" to suspect each other and went for it and nobody who was actually innocent thought it was logical.
Eönwë - it's maybe not the fairest or best of arguments, but he'd have been a very logical wolf convert pick. Has been markedly guarded toDay and continues to talk about the dead thread which is useful (I really appreciate someone trying to work out a system, I do!) but also conveninetly something else than finding wolves/EW, which is especially bad this late.

People she lists as "suspicious" are Nerwen and Zil because of the spat and then Eönwë. Apart from that, Boro and Lottie and Nogrod are sort of in the "watching" cathegory (like it seems she could come back to vote for some of them if it came to it). So if the reason for her elimination should be some basic fear of Lommy being on somebody's trail, it would be one of this group - except for one important detail which I will get to below.

Then, after getting an explanation what the Zilcident was about, she responded:

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

But, they didn't??? Unless they asked privately?? And it would be far more of a stretch to assume they did than that they didn't, if you ask me. I would have jumped to the same conclusion as Zil did. *side-eyes Nerwen (and Lottie a bit too)*

But soon afterwards, after getting responses from the people in question:

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Okay okay.

Boro and Nerwen, thanks for the clarifications. I actually think Zil looks better not worse because of this. But I also think Nerwen looks a bit more innocent. It starts to look like an innocent-on-innocent spat to me. Argghh.

This basically seems to have put the matter of the Zilcident to rest for her. And that was effectively the last thing she said before voting (for Eönwë - quite obviously, after she did not have such a strong suspicion against Zil and Nerwen anymore, he would be the only left in that cathegory).

So the interesting thing is that out of the people who were in her "suspicious" cathegory, it seems like actually at the moment of her death she did not suspect two of them much anymore. That's an interesting thing to consider if the reason for her death was because the Wolves thought she was a threat to them. Because at that moment, Nerwen would (presumably) no longer be suspected by her (or at least not as much as before).

So what altogether? She certainly was not a "no-trace" kill, because she offered opinions on lots of things and people.

I don't think she said anything that would look specifically "Gifted"-ish, but then again, we are in a bit different situation than normally.

She was also widely trusted, or in any case, at least generally not suspected. She was going after quite a few people, too, or mentioned the possibility that she could come back to them. A frame-up would be also a possibility, the question is the frame-up of whom. Eönwë? Or even somebody else like Lottie? (The problem is we have the classic dichotomy of "this could be genuine, or it could be a bluff".)

EDIT: x-ed basically since my last

[Nogrod]

I had just time to skim through the thread to see how much there is to read today to notice this.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I think he must mean empowering a vote *for* the most suspicious person.

Exactly. Empowering the most suspicious would be not just stupid but kind of ununderstandable behavior. I mean why on earth anyone would do that? So the idea was (and is), naturally, empowering a vote for the most suspicious player.

In a hurry for an hour or two still, but will be back then.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Anyway, the other thing I was thinking was that the baddies might be worried by now about a Hunter being amongst us. They killed Lommy, and Lommy suspected Zil and Nerwen, also Eonwe who she voted for. Presumably, the wolves killed her without worry that a Hunter-Lommy might take one of them down. So, should we feel less worried about Eonwe and Nerwen as a result of this?

Maybe slightly, but there's still only a 1/13 chance of hitting a Hunter at this point. Is there any evidence of Lommy changing her behaviour in a way that makes her seem more huntery?

The really cynical and paranoid part of me wonders whether this could be a wolf-Lalaith (potentially a newly-wolfed Lalaith, because she didn't seem suspicious to me yesterDay) attempting to make a fellow wolf-Nerwen seem more innocent by grouping her with others. Like a strong version of the 'a wolf wouldn't pick someone who leads back to them'.

The problem in this game is that now potentially just under half of the living (6/13) have a role they didn't start off with, so I'm just seeing potential new wolves everywhere. I think I need some time to reread.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Anyway, the other thing I was thinking was that the baddies might be worried by now about a Hunter being amongst us. They killed Lommy, and Lommy suspected Zil and Nerwen, also Eonwe who she voted for. Presumably, the wolves killed her without worry that a Hunter-Lommy might take one of them down. So, should we feel less worried about Eonwe and Nerwen as a result of this?

That's actually a good point. Except - and that is exactly the thing I've now been trying to wrap my head around - Lommy did not seemingly suspect Nerwen anymore at the time of her death (see above). So essentially, a Nerwen-Wolf could have also felt safe even under such circumstances. This actually makes me want to take a second look at Nerwen, since I haven't really questioned her before very much.

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Basically, my guess is that we've probably got 3 wolves now, but Eonwe is not one of them, because the Lommy kill puts Eonwe firmly in the spotlight. I doubt Inzil was a wolf, but we might find that out soon.

She did (again, unless it was a double-bluff or whatnot). That is a fair point.

Originally Posted by Eomer

There are unfortunately lots of excellent wolf-candidates now. Shasta, Sally, Mith, Brinniel and Lalaith would have been my top choices on Nights 2 & 3 (let alone Night 1!). 2 wolves in that lot, put money on it!

Indeed. I think I also want to focus on the quieter players a bit more and also generally reevaluate my approach to things. Also in light of what Lalaith has just said. The next level is the fact that many people haven't even posted on Day 1 - that would also have been pretty good thing from the EW to pick one of them on the next Night, because then they would start "fresh".

EDIT: x-ed with Nog and Eönwë

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

I wouldn't indicate who was who, but there would be two people going into the Dead Thread at once (probably) so it should be fairly apparent something odd has happened.

Now that sounds like a very stressful Night on the Dead Thread - if I'm reading the rules correctly, the Dead can only vote to find out the role of someone currently in their thread, and this means they'll only get one chance to attempt to guess which of the two dead is the Visitor (before the Visitor returns to the Living Thread).

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

Yes.

Ok, so that means worst-case scenario now we have a 4:9 evil:good ratio with the EW still having one wolf pick to spare!

[Mithalwen]

So is the plan final? If so should it not be made clear to the Dead?
maybe with a reference to the post in which the settled version is.

I thought I merely had allergic rhinitis but I have some sort of summer bug, and feel grim so would prefer to have an early night so I may have to make an early decision. So I suppose looking for differences is the thing to look at.. and then the odd spread vote followed by bandwagon. Heyho

[Lalaith]

Mith, continuing with the new topics of conversation - on Day One you strongly suspected Lottie and voted for her but on Day Two you mostly suspected (and voted for) Zil.
How do you feel about Lottie at the moment?

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Exactly. Empowering the most suspicious would be not just stupid but kind of ununderstandable behavior. I mean why on earth anyone would do that? So the idea was (and is), naturally, empowering a vote for the most suspicious player.

Yeah, I very much misread that, which is why I was so confused.

I'm still a little confused by some of the practicalities of this on the Dead Thread side (e.g. do people have to come up with a list which orders people by suspicion? And how late to wait before a 'suspicious enough' person is voted by living?) but it seems like it worked last time, so I'm going to give it a look before I make any further comments on it. But I assume the general takeaway for the Living is that we're going to need to start voting earlier?

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Apart from that, Boro and Lottie and Nogrod are sort of in the "watching" cathegory (like it seems she could come back to vote for some of them if it came to it). So if the reason for her elimination should be some basic fear of Lommy being on somebody's trail, it would be one of this group - except for one important detail which I will get to below.

If those three are a wolf-pack together (i.e. Lottie as EW, Boro as N1-wolf, Nog as N2-wolf), I won't even be annoyed if they win.

Ok, should be back in a few (probably 3-4) hours when I have more time.

edit: x-posted since my last

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Mith, continuing with the new topics of conversation - on Day One you strongly suspected Lottie and voted for her but on Day Two you mostly suspected (and voted for) Zil.
How do you feel about Lottie at the moment?

I didn't stop suspecting her. I just put her on the back burner since Inziladun was hacking me off with his negativity. I was a little surprised so many also voted for him since I don't think they all expressed strong views during the day. Loslote IIRC didn't engage with my suspicions - which can be a wolf tactic but agreed with me enough to find it a bit creepy as I think I said. I don't think she has posted today so I will look back and see if I still find her suspicious in context of subsequent events. And who supported their vote. I can appreciate the risk of cross posts but it may be suspect in some.

[Lalaith]

Right, because it's a quiet Saturday for me and I'm not at work, I've been able to be a much more conscientious player. So much so that I've read through the whole bally thread all over again.
The reason I asked about Lottie is because I can see, reading over the thread again, more clearly where the suspicions about her were coming from and I've moved her further up my suspect list as a result.
I still feel very uncomfortable about Boro and would probably have voted for him toDay but he says that he might not be back toDay. For various reasons I feel uncomfortable with voting for someone in absentia.
I'm feeling more paranoid today - more baddies about. I trust fewer of you. Some old friends - Mith, Nogs - would have been good candidates for turning, I think. Eonwe too - he survived the "has Eonwe turned" attacks yesterday and this might make him a good candidate for turning last Night. Except of course that puts my "wolves feared Lommy was a Hunter" theory on its head. Hmmm.

[Mithalwen]

I suppose this game is a bit different but would Hunter be top priority for the GW? I can't recall it working well very often. Either goes pear shaped or it is irrelevant. If Lommy were Hunter that would simly be a first choice.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I specifically did not think Lottie to be the EW on D1 based on her behavior - I felt the EW, being a (virtually?) lone baddie would likely attempt to blend in and go with the flow of the village - something I felt Lottie hadn't done. I'm willing to be overruled, though, considering my horrid participation thus far (and today's won't be much better, I'm afraid, but I will be here sporadically).

[Lalaith]

Hunter could have been second choice.

[Lalaith]

Anyway, I'm not saying there IS a Hunter. I'm saying the wolves might have been worried there was one....but maybe I'm overthinking it.

[Nogrod]

Has anyone read toDay's thread in one piece? (Like I did just a moment ago)

Even sharp-minded people like Legate mis-interpreted the scheme for the Dead-thread and adding more options only makes it more misreadable - not to talk of even and odd days, alphabetical order or signing-in order or whatever. And which is the authoritative version - the one that is presented first or the one that is presented last etc.

Happily I see Eönwe backtracking at least that much as to agree that we shouldn't think this kind of scheme should be the default mindset here in the living thread for the whole game through. Good. We're starting to talk sense, I'd say.

I have nothing against trying it for one Day here in the beginning - well, toDay. There is probably quite little the Dead can tell us toDay as we (well, you) lynched no-one on D1. So we might as well try to find out whether Zil was innocent or not.

That said, I'd still caution us to take it (and everything from the Dead thread) with a pinch of salt as Eönwe put it - and that's actually the whole point: we don't get 100% information from there as much as we wished we could. Therefore, let's not try to puzzle them with requests like "none of the above".

(I was thinking of writing a parody-version of a Day in the Dead-thread during the day I was off doing other things and if I have time I might present one for you - but now I'll take a look at some more pressing matters aka. is there anything to say about toDay - or our voting toDay.)

[Nogrod]

Voting D2

Inzil -> Nerwen
Lommy -> Eönwe
.07 Eomer -> Lottie
.19 Lalaith -> Eomer
.22 Legate -> Boro
.25 Mith -> Inzil
.41 Nogrod -> Eönwe 2
.51 Brinn -> Nerwen 2
.53 Pervinca -> Inzil 2
.53 Nerwen -> Inzil 3
.55 Lottie -> Inzil 4
.58 Boro -> Inzil 5
.58 Eönwe -> Inzil 6

(Only the votes during the last hour are given a timestamp aka. minutes into the last hour)

Well, we shure didn't tie the vote yesterDay.

The problem is that it's pretty hard to draw conclusions from there as baddies as well as goodies might have jumped on the band-wagon in the end - the former to blend in and the latter to secure there is no draw on votes.

That being said I'm a bit uneasy with how easily people jumped on Zil-wagon with quite little to argue for it (Pervinca might be pardoned - and s/he (?) voted quite early only to tie Zil with others in the tally). Sure, I myself somewhat suspected him, but I tend to do that everytime we play, so I'd not take that as a reason to actually vote for him, at least myself.

[Kuruharan]

Pervinca Took has requested to withdraw from the game.

She was an Ordo.

Living
Nerwen
Loslote
Boromir88
Shastanis Althreduin
satansaloser2005
Eomer of the Rohirrim
Lalaith
Legate of Amon Lanc
Mithalwen
Eönwë
Nogrod
Brinniel

The Dead
Morsul the Dark
Inziladun
Thinlómien

Escaped
Pervinca Took (Ordo)

[Nogrod]

Btw. Legate: could you tell us what you were thinking with this one (on Lommy):

Originally Posted by Legate

At the same time, she was posting many generally helpful suggestions (try to prevent a tie etc.) which made her (in my opinion) look more innocent.

In the end of the Day1 you were a strong advocate of the no-lynch policy and actually tried to achieve it - or at least tried to make an impression you tried to achieve it, as you voted already three minutes before the DL and knew there were people still voting, but commented on your vote that it "should be a tie". And here you then say Lommy's driving for a lynch made her look more innocent?

So what has changed, your loyalties or something else?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

Pervinca Took has requested to withdraw from the game.

She was an Ordo.

Sad.

Come bravely to the next one! You'll get the hang of this!

[Lalaith]

Sad.

Come bravely to the next one! You'll get the hang of this!

Hear, hear. Hope to see you again, Pervinca.

Anyway moving to practicals I thought Pervinca's disappearance might warrant a rejig of the list but actually given that Boro said he probably wasn't voting it's not as imbalanced as I'd feared. If the Dead are already voting on who to empower we don't want to confuse things. So here it is again...

ZIL = PREY
Boromir88
Brinniel
Eomer of the Rohirrim
Eönwë
Lalaith

ZIL = PREDATOR
Legate of Amon Lanc
Loslote
Mithalwen
Nerwen

NONE OF THE ABOVE
Nogrod
Pervinca Took
satansaloser2005
Shastanis Althreduin

[Mithalwen]

Well I hope it Is good news. With so many quiet folk, Pervinca gone and an ordo we can't rely on the dead. The numbers are a bit scary. I fear that we are already metaphorically attached to another object by an inclined plane wrapped helically around an axis. So yes let's catch some wolves. This messaging debate is making Brexit negotiations look and snappy. Filibustering?