T-I-G CVIII: Wolves of the Galadhrim (Game Thread)

[Kitanna]

I don't have a lot of time right now, so I won't be pulling any quotes or pointing any fingers, but I do have a few thoughts on how Day 1 ended.
1) I'm surprised Agan garnered enough suspicion for one vote, much less three (I think that was her final count)
2) It sucks about Jex, but yesterday was odd to say the least and assuming Agan tells the truth about her role there was no way around lynching a gifted.
3) Given Jex's reaction to my speculation that maybe a lone lover goes over to the wolves, I'm thinking the lovers are on the side of the village, even in death. But what happens to Nimrodel with her lover gone?
4) Rikae, I'm wondering if the wolves are trying to be bold and frame up Agan. It's a small village, just a little bit of doubt goes a long way. If Agan is a wolf, she's a daring one who was smart to wait until the end of day when a counter reveal was less likely. I trust her more for withholding her dreams because it'd be easy for a wolf to say "I dreamt Boro and now he's dead." If that makes sense. We'll see how today shakes out I guess.

Excuse any typos, I'm WWing from my phone.

[Rikae]

It would be foolish of the wolves to leave her alive to have another dream, lynch-able as her survival might make her.
It's also interesting that she says she dreamed of Nimrodel...

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Well, at least Agan is still alive. Unless there's something else in this game I'm not aware of, with the ranger dead that either means she's a wolf, or the wolves are insane.

This. I was 99% sure I would wake up to find Agan dead - she'd outed herself as the Seer seconds before we lynched our Ranger, there was no reason for the wolves not to kill her. Unless, I guess, she was heavily suspicious of one of their own, and they didn't want to point fingers at themselves? But even that doesn't make sense. It was Day 1, she hadn't had time to be heavily suspicious of anyone, and the wolves could have just said, "oh, she was killed for being the Seer, not for suspecting any of us."

I guess maybe the wolves knew we'd suspect her for not having been killed, and hoped we'd lynch her today. But that seems risky - what if she'd dreamed of a wolf? It's a bold play, and one I'm not sure we could reasonably attribute to the wolves.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

So yeah I'm going to withhold my dreams for a while longer because I want to see some reactions first. However - Nimrodel, I dreamed of you but won't reveal you unless you okay it.

Nimrodel is the only other gifted left, right? So, Agan says that she happened to dream of her, and then says she won't reveal who it is without her permission. Which, fair enough, I guess, but that's also the most convenient excuse to not have to be right about dreams currently possible in this game. I'm not convinced.

Note: If Agan's reveal is fake, I don't think we necessarily need a counter-reveal by the real Galadriel. If you wouldn't normally have revealed toDay, don't worry about having to debunk Agan. We'll find out soon enough whether or not she's lying, whether that means we disbelieve her and lynch her (which, I would actually wait another Day, just to be on the safe side) or, if she is actually the real Seer, I can't believe the wolves would risk leaving her alive another Night.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Loslote

Nimrodel is the only other gifted left, right? So, Agan says that she happened to dream of her, and then says she won't reveal who it is without her permission. Which, fair enough, I guess, but that's also the most convenient excuse to not have to be right about dreams currently possible in this game. I'm not convinced.

Not to mention that if Nimrodel did go over to the wolves and Agan is a wolf, she does know who she is now. This way she's safe from being expected to reveal a role she doesn't know, if she actually has to reveal her "dream" (which she is also safe from having to do, since Nim isn't likely to choose to reveal), and if she does have to reveal Nim, they can make up any role they like for her.

Originally Posted by Loslote

Note: If Agan's reveal is fake, I don't think we necessarily need a counter-reveal by the real Galadriel. If you wouldn't normally have revealed toDay, don't worry about having to debunk Agan. We'll find out soon enough whether or not she's lying, whether that means we disbelieve her and lynch her (which, I would actually wait another Day, just to be on the safe side) or, if she is actually the real Seer, I can't believe the wolves would risk leaving her alive another Night.

I agree.

[Loslote]

What I want to know is, why Boro? He might have been a submarine kill, but on Day 1, I feel like there would have had to be so many submarines available to kill that the wolves would have had more submarines to pick from than they would have known what to do with. Why did Boro stand out?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Agan being alive aside, there's something from the narration that worries me, and that's Nimrodel's part at the end. When she says there's "another way", am I the only one that finds that to be a bit sinister?

I have to wonder if Nimrodel really did go over to the wolves since Amroth died - which would lend credence to what Rikae said about Aganwolf claiming to have dreamt Nimrodel being a safe play.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Kitanna

4) Rikae, I'm wondering if the wolves are trying to be bold and frame up Agan. It's a small village, just a little bit of doubt goes a long way.

This doesn't make sense though, not just for framing purposes, not when they could have killed me then and there. They must have thought of that and it probably contributed, but it can't be the main reason.

Basically I have two options now.

It's possible they thought I could be a cobbler. I know I was being flimsy and sort of trigger-happy yesterday (although by no means enough to get three votes ). And I know that sometimes when I'm a wolf I leave suspected gifteds (or known innocents, as Kitanna - and Nerwen and sally - will remember, or general pains in the neck) alive on the off-chance they're the cobbler. So yeeess I'm a harmless little seer, what can I do for you to survive another night?

The other option (and one that feels more plausible the more I think about it) is that we have a cursed/shapeshifter the wolves know about. That's the best explanation I can think for Boro's death - he made one vaguely evil-looking remark and died, even when the wolves could have got me (really I'm a little upset here - who would take someone else when they can have me? ), which makes me think they must have been after something specific. A cursed would also explain the 2-3 wolves.

Originally Posted by Loslote

Nimrodel is the only other gifted left, right? So, Agan says that she happened to dream of her, and then says she won't reveal who it is without her permission. Which, fair enough, I guess, but that's also the most convenient excuse to not have to be right about dreams currently possible in this game. I'm not convinced.

I'm just pointing out that I wouldn't need an excuse not to be right. The odds of randomly picking an ordo for a "dream" are high, and I wouldn't have to worry about fooling the wolves. I'll be happy to give you Nimrodel's name if I see her suggest (as discreetly as she wants) she'd prefer I did that, but I will not do it without her consent because I don't know the specifics of her role and don't want to put her at a disadvantage just to prove myself.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Nimrodel's part at the end. When she says there's "another way", am I the only one that finds that to be a bit sinister?

To the best of my knowledge, she's not on the wolves' side so I wouldn't be too worried about the narration - I think her "another way" might mean she won't kill herself without avenging Amroth first, making her a hunter/assassin-like character.

I have one request. Don't spend all your day talking about me (tempting as I know it must be). That will only serve the wolves who'll get to swim through the day with little to no scrutiny.

Also, I'm not happy about how quick Lottie is to discredit me.

In any case I'm glad to see Rikae here!

[satansaloser2005]

Let's get the big surprise out of the way first: I don't (presently) suspect Kit. Shocking, right? I hate to spoil a glorious tradition, but Kit and Agan discussing the possible implications of Nimrodel on Day 1 seems (at least on Kit’s end) innocent enough to me. While it’s true that the baddies would be as keen to know the lovers’ details as we are, her tone lends an air of ignorance rather than pot-stirring. Essentially I think a wolf Kit or a mystery gifted* Kit would not have this particular type of discussion with Agan; were she a wolf, they could have sent their secret messages during the Night, and were she a gifted, well, she would know what her role was, wouldn't she? Um, wouldn't she?

The only particular thing I could find from Boro was the use of the phrase “getting inside your head,” which, knowing how clever my prince can be, may have been picked up on by the wolves as a hint toward the seer’s true identity. I know it isn’t much, but there wasn’t much to go on, and the wolves were likely grasping at straws in this matter. Knowing there was no chance to undo Agan’s reveal, the quickest way to profit from the situation was to attempt to find the real seer before he or she could possibly reveal some of the sultry minx’s packmates. Obviously they were wrong, and now they will pay for their heinous crimes. My prince must be avenged!

In regards to above, I’ll note that Lottie made a quick point of that before voting for Boro, which, if my above theory is correct, could paint her in a rather bloody light. Other than that, I’ve not dedicated much time to her yet, I’ll admit.

While I hesitate to trust McCaber on principle (he’s the McCobbler, after all!), I think his logic this Day and the last has been sound (and not just because he voted Agan, promise). He tips toward the logical side of at least voting for someone who is around to defend themselves, and the fact that the vote was for Agan does honestly help his case, especially since he was the one who started the votes against her and we all know how unpredictable Day 1s can be; he easily could have been serving her up as a quick lynch, and I don’t believe Cab would take such a big risk, at least not on Day 1.

I find Shasta’s vote highly suspicious, however. I don’t find it within his nature to go after someone who hasn’t yet spoken their piece. Must he really go after someone who hasn't shown up, especially after the debacles we've had in the past with absent Day 1 lynchees? It’s bad form, and unusual form for him. If he is a wolf, he could easily use the events of the last game (I mean, really, I haven’t changed my avatar, for God’s sake) as a joking front for shifting the vote toward me and away from a compatriot. Say, Agan, perhaps?

Rikae looks okay to me (for the moment) mostly based on the fact that Agan specified her as a dream, and to have Rikae turn out the opposite of that reveal would ruin what small (and inexplicable) chance Agan has at keeping up this seer act. I'll reevaluate this later, as I know both of these ladies are capable of that level of shenanigans if not more, but for toDay, Rikae shifts into my ignore column. Like yesterDay, I simply have bigger fishes to sleep with- I mean fry.

Farael considers the options and has come to, in my opinion, the correct decision. It's been so long since we've played that I'm not sure of your style, but you certainly don't seem a threat at the moment (and yes, it's Sally).

Cop has given me no reason to notice her, and is, I must say, entirely off my radar. Her vote placed Agan solidly in the danger zone, which, much like Cab, I don't believe Cop would risk on Day 1 with so few in the village.

As for this gifted mess, my advice to the village is, at least for now, to ignore what Nimrodel might have been or may have become. If their alignment has shifted, the only evidence we have of their actions from before the change was Day 1, and in most of our cases, that isn't much to go on. I feel like spending time talking about the possibilities of that role is only going to detract from our true purpose, which is exactly what the wolves want. Only two of us can know what Nimrodel's role entails, and I doubt Nimrodel is going to talk, so it's a non-issue.

I need to vote soon and get to bed. A quick list as a recap....

Would vote:
Agan (HOW IS THIS NOT HAPPENING, YOU GUYS?)
Shasta
Lottie
Rikae

Would not vote:
Kit
Cop
Farael
McCaber
Sally (duh)

I'll post this (sorry for the delay, by the way) and catch up again before I vote in a second.


*Nimrodel, that is

[Coppermirror]

I'm not going to be voting any time soon. Going to get some dinner and spend a good long time looking through Days 1 and 2 until I think I've got a better grasp on it.

[Aganzir]

Heyy I'm here. I'm afraid I won't be very useful though, another bad night (this time with no WW dreams though) and I'm knackered, and it doesn't really help that my corner of the world only gets about 5 hours of daylight at this time of year.

Okay reading.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Kitanna

3) Given Jex's reaction to my speculation that maybe a lone lover goes over to the wolves, I'm thinking the lovers are on the side of the village, even in death. But what happens to Nimrodel with her lover gone?

Which reaction? This was all I could find:

Originally Posted by Tar-Jêx

So far, the facts we know about the lovers are: Amroth is also a ranger and the nature of the relationship has been accentuated to arouse suspicion surrounding their roles.

I doubt that Amroth would also be a cobbler, because 3 roles seems far too many for one person. If they were to be lynched, it would take a lot of interest out of the game in one hit. However, the text about Nimrodel seems most intriguing. I am led to believe that Nimrodel has more than one objective, similar to Amroth's dual objective. 2 wolves is too few, but 3 is too many. A cobbler would fill this mid-space quite well, and could be Nimrodel's other role.

It seems possible to me that Tar didn't actually know.

At any rate, I'm not suggesting we lynch Agan now. If she's a wolf,that will become increasingly clear, after all.

Edit: X'd with Lottie