An Unexpected Journey, or the morning after

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

*Kiligolas. The parts where he's just being Legolas

I'm not complaining because even though archery is sexy per se, it's a hundred times sexier when it's a dark-haired dwarf doing it instead of a blond elf.

I tell you, something's gonna happen with Kili.

It had better not happen before the Battle of the Five Armies though!

And thank you for your compliments. I got laughed at by teenage girls in elven cloaks (not to mention the bus ride to the cinema), but it was naturally highly enjoyable.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

If PJ doesn't botch it, the deaths of Fili and Kili
defending Thorin could be a highlight.

PJ not going over the top? What am I saying!

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Tuor in Gondolin

If PJ doesn't botch it, the deaths of Fili and Kili
defending Thorin could be a highlight.

I'm so looking forward to that too! Because already in this movie one the awwww-iest moments for me was when Thorin thought one of them was dead/in danger and he was totally like "ohmygodnooo!!!!" and then he was relieved to find out he was ok, so I'm just trying to imagine how he'll react when they die defending him... and Thorin's death will really make me cry because it's so sad in the book too (and in the book you don't get the tear-fishing music in the background).

Originally Posted by G55

Thorin half-dying? And Gandalf saving him?

Oh that was silly, but after Aragorn half-dying in The Two Towers, I can't say I was surprised! Gosh, I had forgotten about Gandalf's healing powers. That was pretty ridiculous! Couldn't he have woken up himself, couldn't one of the Dwarves had some healing herbs, couldn't even, I don't know, the eagles have magically healed him or something? I mean, Gandalf's no doctor (when it comes to physical wounds) and I wish they'd kept it consistent. The only more ridiculous solution would have been having Elrong riding up the steep path to the Eyrie in a cloak that covers his face and making a surprise visit to demonstrate his healing powers accompanied by some quasi-wise words about the relations of Elves and Dwarves in the ages to come...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Oh that was silly, but after Aragorn half-dying in The Two Towers, I can't say I was surprised! Gosh, I had forgotten about Gandalf's healing powers. That was pretty ridiculous! Couldn't he have woken up himself, couldn't one of the Dwarves had some healing herbs, couldn't even, I don't know, the eagles have magically healed him or something? I mean, Gandalf's no doctor (when it comes to physical wounds) and I hope they'd kept it consistent. The only more ridiculous solution would have been having Elrong riding up the steep path to the Eyrie in a cloak that covers his face and making a surprise visit to demonstrate his healing powers accompanied by some quasi-wise words about the relations of Elves and Dwarves in the ages to come...

The "wannabe dying" definitely was silly, though I just thought of one possibility (which concerns neither of us present here, of course) - what if there are people who have seen the LotR movies and haven't read The Hobbit, and they would be under the impression (because they remember Boromir) that somebody is likely to die at the end of the first movie. So maybe the idea was to really scare the unknowing part of the audience, I can very well imagine PJ having this on his mind. It would be very naive, but maybe also too delicate idea for him.

In any case, I did not really approve of it, as I said. But as for "Gandalf healing" - everyone seems to speak about it, but I never understood it that way! To me, it seemed like that Thorin was lying there, looking dead, and now Gandalf comes and wants to try some - whatever - "healing magic" - anything, any desperate attempt to utilise the power he definitely does have, in the hope that perhaps he might save Thorin. But, as soon as he touches him, maybe only the bit or the touch "kicks in" and Thorin wakes up from what was nothing more than being unconscious. So the way I saw it was that Gandalf wants to do something (since he'd of course wish Thorin to live), but he does not really do anything. I certainly didn't see it as using any healing, less even any "resurrecting" powers (that would be utterly ridiculous).

[Lalwendë]

The Gandalf healing part must have passed over my head (I was possibly fiddling with the pesky 3D glasses). Did he touch Thorin or just do a 'Jedi force' type pass of his hand? If he just touched him I'd put it down to a gentle way of waking him from his unconsciousness. The alternative being a slap? Not really appropriate

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

The Gandalf healing part must have passed over my head (I was possibly fiddling with the pesky 3D glasses). Did he touch Thorin or just do a 'Jedi force' type pass of his hand? If he just touched him I'd put it down to a gentle way of waking him from his unconsciousness. The alternative being a slap? Not really appropriate

Yes, that's how I saw it: touching him and therefore waking him up, nothing more. I can't say I 100% remember correctly, maybe somebody can correct me, but I think he did the sort of thing that first it looked as if he was, I don't know, doing something akin to what he would do if he was trying to close the eyes of a dead person (except that Thorin's eyes were already closed), sort of slid his palm over his face or somesuch. Maybe up to his neck. He basically looked like he could have been checking whether Thorin was still alive, or something.

[Hookbill the Goomba]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Gosh, I had forgotten about Gandalf's healing powers. That was pretty ridiculous! Couldn't he have woken up himself, couldn't one of the Dwarves had some healing herbs, couldn't even, I don't know, the eagles have magically healed him or something? I mean, Gandalf's no doctor (when it comes to physical wounds) and I wish they'd kept it consistent.

In terms of film-consistency it was perhaps because they'd already shown Radagast heal a hedgehog, so Gandalf MUST be able to heal a dwarf! But it looked to me like the same thing they did with Pippin after he'd looked in the Palantir - Gandalf waking him up from a stupor.

[Pomegranate]

Whoa. I expected to come here and meet a lot of criticisms and negative feedback, based on what how I see the film and how most of the people seemed to be a lot more negative about it than I was in the first place, and now I think my opinion might be the one of the most negative ones. I definitely didn’t expect that. And given that, I think I’ll need to see the movie again before I can have a proper full picture of the film, right now it’s just bits that I liked a lot and bits that I didn’t like at all, and these not forming anything proper.

I’ll start with what I didn’t like, because it’s on the top of my head.

Azog, as many have said before, was useless and confusing. For a while I assumed it might actually work, when he appeared with the wargs and I thought “Hey, that makes sense! They’ll kill him here and thus will have an appropriate ending to the first movie, a separate plot, and we don’t have to watch him anymore in the next one!” …and then this didn’t happen. So he remained a useless and confusing side-plot.

More controversially, I didn’t like Bilbo. I think. I had high expectations, having seen Martin Freeman do great in all the trailer bits, and what we had? Instead of a confused and surprised but still keeping-his-good-manners–hobbit who invites Gandalf for tea and treats the dwarves to all his food because that’s how he’s been raised, we get a rude slam-the-door and don’t-eat-my-things person who keeps turning back at every possible corner, until the sudden change-of-mindset due to which he decides to save Thorin from Azog. And I feel like most of the changes PJ has made to the story were affecting his growth-story, making him do things that were done by others in the book (like the trolls) or things that don’t happen at all in the book (like the Azog-fight in the end, or his plan to leave in the mountain cave), which made it jump forth and back unlogically. He didn’t feel likeable, or believable. Which was sad, because the original story is, after all, essentially that - Bilbo’s growth story.

And another bit that I didn’t quite agree with that seems to be generally approved was the White Council. Especially Saruman. I mean, he’s supposed to be respected and “the wise” still here, right? And then he keeps going on about how he doesn’t like the dwarves not coming to talk to him and blahblah and is completely ignored by Gandalf and Galadriel who have their secret wee talk. No respect whatsoever. Which annoys me a great deal, because I feel like it’s contrary to PJ’s own works – in LOTR, Gandalf goes to ask for his help, talking about the greatest of his order and so on, and here he seems like a complaining child who wants to stop others from playing because he wasn’t involved in the first place.

These were my main complaints. And then there were a lot of brilliant bits.

Like the beginning with Dale and Erebor. Lovely, tell-tale-like. Beautiful, and a good way of explaining the background.

The dwarves. I love the personalities given to them, I love Thorin, I think the young dwarves are adorable and enough childish to not to be only the sexy-dwarves that they were labelled as before.

The already-familiar characters when they were younger and all was well. The cheery Elrond and his awkward hug with Gandalf, especially. I could include Gollum here as well, I loved the way they portrayed him.

The songs. I’m so glad they included the songs, and as has been mentioned before, the misty mountains-song is one of the most beautiful things in all PJ films I’ve seen.

Some of the references to the LOTR trilogy. Not the one with Gandalf getting mad in Bag End, though, that was really bad.

I really liked the rock giants. They were very impressive, and pretty, and I’ve not seen transformers so that impression didn’t hit me during the movie either.

[Morsul the Dark]

most are saying the bird poo and nest on Radagast's head was poor humor... if it was meant as humor it was indeed poor, for my part however I thought it shiwed more his compassion for living creatures. While extremely odd I found Radagast Quite well done, certainly his bravery in Dol guldor. The bunny sled while odd was used to good effect and not blatantly silly. My only complaint was the eye crossing, but only at one moment(I thought it was fine showing concentration on the incantaion) However when he puffs the pipe and goes crosseyed.... I always put the leaf down as more tobacco type of leaf not really in the narcotic family...

Bilbo was amazing very physical actor the way he walks and moves his neck were very good at explaining unspoken emotions.

Gandalf well done, of course. I think his scene on the bridge with the goblin king was great it didn't feel recycled to me I understand how people see it that way but I feel it was unique enough no great proclamations or wizard tricks.

Gandalf's line about the blue wizard's gave me a chuckle though I had thought they had been part of ousting Sauron from Dol Guldor. The out of the frying pan and into the fire line was misplaced I think, It should have been said in the trees when the fire was actually there(I always thought that was the reason for the title in the first place.

Gollum played out as he sould the riddles game getting progressively more tense... Bilbo's Pity scene was a tad drawn out for me however... While we're in the area, I thought Bilbo was knocked out after falling through the crack and happened to be missed by the goblins originally, in te movie he just sort of squats and is suddenly ignored...

Maybe Ihave to reread but I always thought of the stone giants as sort of metaphorical instead of real that was a bit shadow of collossus for me.

As for length the length was fine and pacing fine, if this was going to be two movies. Ending on the edge of Mirkwood leaves Well, Mirkwood Dale and the battle of 5 armies, not a lot of material for two more movies I know he's using the appendices butI don't know how much is Actually in there...

I'm glad the Rivendell elves didn't sing I'm glad Gandalf explained his relationship to the tooks without a baby scene.

My only complaint which is silly(as it has no actual bearing on the movie itself) is Balin's Ear horn, out of all the props that just for me was the most intrusive.

One last thought add my to the I thought Gandalf just woke Thorin up list... didn't seem very magiccy...(magiccy really?) to me

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Pomegranate

And another bit that I didn’t quite agree with that seems to be generally approved was the White Council. Especially Saruman. I mean, he’s supposed to be respected and “the wise” still here, right? And then he keeps going on about how he doesn’t like the dwarves not coming to talk to him and blahblah and is completely ignored by Gandalf and Galadriel who have their secret wee talk. No respect whatsoever. Which annoys me a great deal, because I feel like it’s contrary to PJ’s own works – in LOTR, Gandalf goes to ask for his help, talking about the greatest of his order and so on, and here he seems like a complaining child who wants to stop others from playing because he wasn’t involved in the first place.

The last part is true, however in the context of the books, that's exactly how it was. There was all this dynamic within the ranks of the Council, Saruman opposed everything Gandalf had been a part of just for the sake of it already at the first Councils (being jealous even before they left Valinor - cf. the Unfinished Tales - and all that), and later (he mentions that by the end of LotR when the company meets him on their way back to Rivendell) suspected Galadriel and Gandalf of plotting against him (which was what I approved about the movie, because you can actually look at it from Saruman's perspective and see that he was right!). And as for disapproving the Dwarves, I think Saruman was a bit "racist", too - in the sense that his focus was on Men and how he thought the Elves are basically dead and gone, and so probably pretty much the Dwarves (him being a Maia of Aulë, I think he must have had a reason to ignore them - probably their lack of "activity on the surface").

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Gandalf's line about the blue wizard's gave me a chuckle though I had thought they had been part of ousting Sauron from Dol Guldor.

They could not have been, since they had been lost in the East already for quite a long time at that point. For almost two millenia, actually. (Which also makes it possible for me to imagine that Gandalf would really have forgotten their names at that point.)

The out of the frying pan and into the fire line was misplaced I think, It should have been said in the trees when the fire was actually there(I always thought that was the reason for the title in the first place.

That was actually another part I forgot to mention and which I did not like. It seemed too sudden and rushed. They just ran out of the mines, stopped for like the exchange of two sentences, and suddenly there were more Orcs coming, with no introduction, no change of place and time, nothing.

Also makes you wonder why didn't the goblins start following them out at that point too, since the Orcs apparently could, and the evening was falling...

Maybe Ihave to reread but I always thought of the stone giants as sort of metaphorical instead of real that was a bit shadow of collossus for me.

I always thought them real, but I imagined them as the classic giants, like, huge men, throwing boulders.

My only complaint which is silly(as it has no actual bearing on the movie itself) is Balin's Ear horn, out of all the props that just for me was the most intrusive.

That wasn't Balin (and to be honest, I have no idea who exactly it was, can somebody clarify? Originally I thought it was Oin, but then I think it turned out that Oin was somebody else, so I really am not sure).

[Lalwendë]

One thing about those Stone Giants. It made me want to watch Trollhunter again.

I was reading something elsewhere earlier where someone asked "Did you spot Cumberbatch?" Well, I can't say that I did. When Radagast was at Dol Guldur I saw a wight (who I assumed was the Witch King of Angmar, later one of the Ringwraiths) and then there was the very creepy bit where the dark figure appeared out of the mists (quite unpleasant in 3D). It didn't look Cumberbatch shaped though, just vaguely man shaped. Have I missed something?

[Morsul the Dark]

They could not have been, since they had been lost in the East already for quite a long time at that point. For almost two millenia, actually. (Which also makes it possible for me to imagine that Gandalf would really have forgotten their names at that point.)
That wasn't Balin (and to be honest, I have no idea who exactly it was, can somebody clarify? Originally I thought it was Oin, but then I think it turned out that Oin was somebody else, so I really am not sure).

First off ah yes you're right about the blue wizards whenever I hear White Council I just automatically include them...

Secondly it is Balin

[Oddwen]

Originally Posted by Hookbill the Goomba

In terms of film-consistency it was perhaps because they'd already shown Radagast heal a hedgehog, so Gandalf MUST be able to heal a dwarf!

They're practically the same creature, right?