TIG XCIV– WHere the Stars Are Strange (Game thread)

[Thinlómien]

First post. Maybe the second time in my life. Yay! It's great to be playing again. *stretches* We'll see how rusty I am.

So, shall we lynch the loud (me) or the quiet (the rest of you)?
Shall we all now flock to protect Shasta since the Moddess Goddess's marvelous narration surely leaves no doubt about the identity of the seer?

And since someone will say it aloud at some point anyway, we might as well get done with it in the first post: please be extra careful with the lynches in this game! Must avoid last-minute votes in this game.

Anyone want to start speculation about the mysterious acolyte?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

So, shall we lynch the loud (me) or the quiet (the rest of you)?

Or the loud who consistently don't post anything substantive?

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

And since someone will say it aloud at some point anyway, we might as well get done with it in the first post: please be extra careful with the lynches in this game! Must avoid last-minute votes in this game.

It's likely I'll be voting long before DL as a rule here. It falls into my exercise time.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Anyone want to start speculation about the mysterious acolyte?

We'd need at least some facts to speculate, and I don't think there are many, although an "acolyte" is generally a person of high rank, or one with fervent beliefs, I think. Xe doesn't count in the tally. Good? Evil? Neutral? Cinnamon? (Sorry, got carried away with thoughts of breakfast )

[Nerwen]

All right, narration's up. Sorry about the delay.

–Incidentally, the Royal Executioner has yet to pick a target. The Empress is most displeased (even in the afterlife).

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

We'd need at least some facts to speculate, and I don't think there are many, although an "acolyte" is generally a person of high rank, or one with fervent beliefs, I think. Xe doesn't count in the tally. Good? Evil? Neutral? Cinnamon? (Sorry, got carried away with thoughts of breakfast )

Methinks it's an apprentice or a follower of a kind, and has something to do with religion. (I checked: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/acolyte) The narration also implies he is related to the seer and can choose his side (or at least may change sides, maybe not on his own will). So we have some kind of cursed-kind of person? An assistant of the seer who changes sides if attacked by the wolves? Ugh, sounds disastrous.


edit: xed with the Empress's ghost

[Thinlómien]

Given the recent events, I think honour would demand Shasta and I go nilp because of our failures at serving the Empress. Oh woe!

Speaking of voting, I HATE RANDOM VOTES. THEY DON'T SERVE THE VILLAGE IN ANY WAY. DON'T MAKE THEM IF YOU DON'T WANT TO MAKE ME ANGRY AND SUSPICIOUS OF YOU. Now that I have said it, I hope I can refrain from ranting about it for the rest of the game... (Fyi, Eru and Nate, this is my pet peeve. Please don't freak out.)

Also, I'll most likely be voting pretty close to the DL every day, I think, as it's 2pm my time and as a student I tend to have free time in such weird hours as in the middle of the day or in the morning...

[Thinlómien]

Hmm. So I think the acolyte co-operates with the seer (I'm not sure it's wise to discuss the details) and may be turned to evil, more likely by wolves than by his/her own choice. So we should watch out for strange happenings in the narrations and generally be prepared for surprises in this game.

Now this early bird will shut up and go for lunch and then to work. You can expect me to be back in six hours or so.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Hmm. So I think the acolyte co-operates with the seer (I'm not sure it's wise to discuss the details) and may be turned to evil, more likely by wolves than by his/her own choice. So we should watch out for strange happenings in the narrations and generally be prepared for surprises in this game.

Cooperation, yes, that's another possibility. Does not sound bad. Could be also that the Acolyte could be getting some "partial info" from the Seer or whatnot... and based on that could also choose sides... (For example: Night 1: Seer dreams of Freddy and sees him innocent, the Acolyte gets info "Seer dreamed of Freddy" or "Seer dreamed of innocent"... okay, that sounds stretched, I'm making up stuff from the top of my head, but you know, something... random...)

EDIT: x-ed with the Joker. (Or Jester... Said the Joker to the Thief...)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Methinks it's an apprentice or a follower of a kind, and has something to do with religion. (I checked: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/acolyte) The narration also implies he is related to the seer and can choose his side (or at least may change sides, maybe not on his own will). So we have some kind of cursed-kind of person? An assistant of the seer who changes sides if attacked by the wolves? Ugh, sounds disastrous.


edit: xed with the Empress's ghost

I also got the impression that the Acolyte would be somebody who could switch sides, yes. The idea I had when reading it was that it could be something along the lines of a Seer (weaker Seer, perhaps? Not sure how exactly to define "weaker", but let's say one dream per several Nights, or not getting specific info - like only getting the ordo/special affirmation or good/evil affirmation etc, we've seen all this before). "Near as skilled as yourself in sorcerous arts" implies something like that, and "if the acolyte proves truly loyal" points to the uncertainity. Might be that the Acolyte takes the Seer's place after the Seer is killed, OR takes a Wolf's place after the first Wolf (resp. traitor) is killed, to compensate? However I am not sure if I'd believe this. The most likely possibility to me would be something like a Seer-like Gifted (as I have outlined above) who can actually choose the side. There used to be roles like that as well in other games. Basically: caring for its own survival, but can join either side. Somehow, I am slightly doubtful also about this (it would be too simple to be able to just choose if the role was really just a Seer who chooses), but it's probably the best I can think of right now. The "cursed Seer" idea of Lommy's hasn't occured to me, would be possible, though not nice. However, if it was like that, we'd probably learn about it the way that one Night suddenly there'd be no kill etc...

Anyway, perhaps further narrations will also contain more information about the Acolyte's role, at least hints like this.

Anyway... otherwise... well, I think there isn't much more to speak about right now, so at least something.

Will be around...

EDIT: X-ed with two Lommys. Ahem, you really missed that game a lot, right...

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Might be that the Acolyte takes the Seer's place after the Seer is killed, OR takes a Wolf's place after the first Wolf (resp. traitor) is killed, to compensate?

That's what I assumed, judging by the name of the role.

On the other hand, the 'cursed' idea could also work, where if there's an attempt to Night-kill or dream the acolyte, they become that role. Or even if they're the target of the other gifteds.

On the other (metaphorical- I mean, these aren't the days of Utumno any more) hand, since the Acolyte is implied to be of a similar nature to the Seer... er... Envoy, there may be a possibility that they can dream for either side, either out of choice or through the cursed way.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Hmm. So I think the acolyte co-operates with the seer (I'm not sure it's wise to discuss the details) and may be turned to evil, more likely by wolves than by his/her own choice. So we should watch out for strange happenings in the narrations and generally be prepared for surprises in this game.

Right. Without some more clues from the narration, supported by game events, this is all guesswork.

What we can do is focus on finding the ones we know can kill us. The rest will just have to work itself out.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

That's what I assumed, judging by the name of the role.

On the other hand, the 'cursed' idea could also work, where if there's an attempt to Night-kill or dream the acolyte, they become that role. Or even if they're the target of the other gifteds.

On the other (metaphorical- I mean, these aren't the days of Utumno any more) hand, since the Acolyte is implied to be of a similar nature to the Seer... er... Envoy, there may be a possibility that they can dream for either side, either out of choice or through the cursed way.

Yes, that's what I had in mind, basically. But right, as Zil says, it's all guesswork. Won't harm us to have somewhere to start, though. At least there's something to talk about. That doesn't mean we should dwell on that topic for the rest of the day (or game). But I think for the start, and since we really don't know much, it is as good topic for posting as any. Eventually, it will became worn-out (and it's already becoming, I think, we've named a fair couple of possibilities, so if people in the future don't have any more new thougts to add, I suggest leaving that be), and then it will drift away on its own and some more "actual" issue will take its place. But the Day has just started.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Right. Without some more clues from the narration, supported by game events, this is all guesswork.

What we can do is focus on finding the ones we know can kill us. The rest will just have to work itself out.

I like (insert sarcasm here) those proclamations, it is very nice and logical, but then of course comes the inevitable question: so what exactly do you mean by "finding the ones..." I mean, we are doing that, for sure, all of us (or: almost all of us, anyway). But until people start talking (probably about something else). You know, it's like the problem with the chicken and the egg... we have to start talking. - Yes. About what? - About catching Wolves. Yes. But how are we supposed to catch them when nobody started talking yet? - Well, we will, that's why we have to start talking. What should we talk about? - About catching Wolves, obviously. Okay. Let's catch Wolves. - Agreed. (silence)

Now that said, it's nothing against you in particular, Zil (even though I quoted your post) - I have experienced much stronger cries for "let's talk something!" (that said, I don't even know if that was your intention) who were annoying on top of that (and hypocritical - as such cries most often are). This is partially also kind of preemptive strike against such kind of behavior.

On a more specific topic, then - Lommy mentioned her hate for the random votes. And I must say I would agree. Of course, lot of stuff can happen and sometimes people are so puzzled that they are forced to vote randomly. Or, let me say: more randomly than they would like to. It happened to me too, last time I believe in my last game (some half a year ago, I think, or a bit less, four or five months maybe) - I felt I didn't have enough info to make a good decision, but in the end, I simply had to choose - based on something. But "total random", as in, "I'll toss a coin", I believe is total blasphemy and people should be lynched just for that. Only if you come online ten minutes before DL and haven't played all day, I could understand that (but then I probably wouldn't vote, personally, for the sake of being responsible). But otherwise you could at least try to form an opinion based on something small - and later you can defend your vote based on that. Your vote is your responsibility, and that's the main point of it - later, you can be judged based on how you have used it. Random vote has no responsibility in it, therefore, you are not accountable for it. But that means that you either don't care about the game at all, or that you don't want to be accountable for your votes - and there's only one role which does not want to be accountable for its votes: the baddies.

Enough of the long agitatory rant, I hope you got the point, for now, I will let myself rest, also in order to give people less stuff to read through. Ha, ha.

[Boromir88]

Great. I come all the way from Far Far Harad, and now who is going to buy my lovely new stock of mumakil?

The Acolyte could be something like that one role, what was it...Mythomaniac? Assumes the role of the person he/she "dreamed." If the Acolyte isn't counted in the tally that would make the Acolyte, at the moment, neutral. That is, the Acolyte will be serving his/her own designs for the time being, and until some choice of loyalty comes (if it ever comes).

[Galadriel55]

What? No one has done this yet? You bad, bad people, talking about the Alcolyte when there are spies around!

It was Rikae. How do we know she didn't kill Her Who Once Shined Brighter Than The Sun before closing the door again and putting up all that show?

It was Eruhen. Eunuchs are never up to any good.

It was Nog. Hear how he spoke at the palace doors? Must show respect, that one.

It was Inziladun and Boro. They have the means to bribe someone close to the Empress.

It was Lommy. She posted first.

It was Shasta. He's the one who spent a night by the Empress' bedchamber! He could have sneaked in and done the deed anytime during the night.

It was Greenie. Mayhaps she had a really poisonous snake bite Her For Whom The Stars Once Shined. And then stabbed Her, just to make sure, you know.

It was Bom. You never know with them beggars!

It was Sally, Steve, and Nate. They look oh-so-innocent (aka I can't think of a good accusation), but probably they are the most dangerous ones.

It was Pitch and Legate. Is it a coincidence that these two arrive at our Empress' court, and some days later She is murdered?

Lottie is clearly the alcolyte. She's a sorcerer's apprentice. Makes sense, no?

I could not have done the foul deed. If I was the murderer, that would have meant that I foresaw my role in choosing the occupation, which would imply that I'm a Seer. I can't be both spy/wolf and seer at the same time!


~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~


I add my voice to those who prefer not to waste time speculating about the Alcolyte, but there isn't much else to talk about, so what choice do we have, until some better idea enters someone's mind?

[Pitchwife]

So with no better security than this, you southron Barbarians think you can tackle Gondor? Pathetic. You'll need all the help you can get from the Dark Lord. [/IC]

I see there's some speculation about the Acolyte, as was to be expected. The narration seems to indicate that they somehow partake in the Envoy's investigation, like Lommy and Legate have guessed, and I think there's also a hint in the term itself: an acolyte (according to wikipedia) is an assistant to the priest and may be aspiring to priesthood himself but hasn't attained it yet - which is why I think they can't dream on their own, but rather are let in on the Envoy's dreams somehow, more or less like Legate has suggested.

Another possibility would be that the acolyte doesn't have any powers to start with but gains them during the game - possibly when they pick their allegiance (if they do that by choice). Or maybe they inherit the Envoy's dreams (and/or power of dreaming?) in case of his death? That would of course be shiny in case we manage to lose our Seer early.

On the other hand, there's clearly a possibility that the Acolyte may turn, or be turned, to the dark side and use their powers, whichever they may be, against us - which is why I don't quite get Lommy's doubts whether "it's wise to discuss the details". I mean, why shouldn't we discuss what we may be up against? OK, it's all speculation at this point, but what's the harm in speculation? It's not like anybody is going to say "I think Finnegan's the Envoy and Freddy is the Acolyte".

(x-ed with Legate and Zil)

EDIT: and Boro and G55. Stop frowning.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

which is why I don't quite get Lommy's doubts whether "it's wise to discuss the details". I mean, why shouldn't we discuss what we may be up against?

Yeah, but the wolves are also listening. Personally, I don't want to give them ideas about how to strengthen their side.

(x-ed with Legate and Zil)

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

That would of course be shiny in case we manage to lose our Seer early.

Manage to? Is this something you're hoping will happen?

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Pitch

On the other hand, there's clearly a possibility that the Acolyte may turn, or be turned, to the dark side and use their powers, whichever they may be, against us - which is why I don't quite get Lommy's doubts whether "it's wise to discuss the details". I mean, why shouldn't we discuss what we may be up against? OK, it's all speculation at this point, but what's the harm in speculation? It's not like anybody is going to say "I think Finnegan's the Envoy and Freddy is the Acolyte".

Well, just I managed to come up with some stuff I hope the wolves didn't/wouldn't come up with, so I don't want to post everything I was thinking about. We don't want to give the wolves ideas how to abuse the Acolyte role, or construct a basis they can later build on to make their own moves, do we? That's the only thing I was after - if you have something to say that is more good for village than for the wolves, do say it. I haven't thought this out 100%, I'm just being cautious about what I say aloud (having once or twice been a sort of Captain Obvious and helped wolves that way).

The random-vote crusade confuses me. I started about them just to say something, kind of as a banter or, like I said back then, to avoid talking about it for the rest of the game. I know Legate and Nogrod are strongly against random votes too, but it surprises me it became such an issue without any random votes (or any votes at all) being cast yet. I would like to make something out of this (just to be sharp and draw conclusions), but it might be just their wordy selves wanting to rant about something.

Speaking of which...

Originally Posted by Lottie

I think Lommy's post is understandable - it was at the very beginning of the Day and it was more useful than banter, which was the other option at that point.

Well to be honest, it was as much banter as useful, I was kind of parodising the habit of saying pseudo useful stuff in the beginning of Day1 and acting as Captain Obvious.

The thing that caught my attention this far the most was the odd case of Lottie and Zil going against Pitch for saying "in case we manage to lynch our seer early". I mean, come on, that was clearly sarcastic phrasing! I'm not sure which is worse, Lottie pointing it out as a suspicious passage, or Zil implying it's a good point. (Unless Zil was sarcastic too? or referring to something else? I'm talking about #26)

Next: seeing who I xed with and a summary of sorts...


edit: xed with everyone after Boro

[Thinlómien]

Boromir88 - I've been a bit more careful about judging him recently because I don't think I'm as good at reading him as I used to be (or then he's got better at lying ), but this far nothing neither alarming nor especially trust-inspiring.

Sally - we needs one to banter around, methinks. (Not that I generally want banter, but Sally-banter is an essential part of the ww experince and I haven't played in a while.)

Galadriel55 - seems honest enough, but her points are a little weird. Merits watching, I guess.

Shasta - no data yet.

Steve - is under my radar.

Pomegranate - no data yet.

A Little Green - this far seems pretty innocent. Sharp as usual. (Hihi, reminds me of good ol' times when she wasn't a 'downer yet and Nog kept telling me she'd make a brilliant ww player because she's so smart. Awww.)

Rikae - pokes at people, makes points... seems innocent enough right now, but I don't want to judge her yet.

Eruhen - under the radar with Steve.

Pitchwife - makes some weird points and generally isn't especially honest-seeming, but then again I'm kind of sympathetic towards him after that really weird attack from Lottie and Zil's direction.

Lottie - seems maybe the worst this far (I KNOW, Lottie and Day1 suspicion, it's quite lame, but...), her points funnily resemble clutching at straws. Also, she merits people with stuff quite easily and weirdly (like me for contributing in my early posts).

Bom Tombadillo - under the radar with Steve and Eruhen.

Inziladun - his way of creating divisions and opposites, over-usage of italics to emphasise his points, his contradictory actions and willigness to stop talking about the acolyte when a majority of the villagers haven't even appeared - all I can call it is weird. It doesn't really look like a wolf, it doesn't look like a nervous gifted, mostly it looks like a cobbler, but we don't have one unless the acolyte is the acolyte of wolves ie a cobbler (which doesn't make sense given the narrations and the game balance).

Lommy! – I like the exclamation mark, that's all.

Nogrod - seems like typical innocent Nogrod, almost too much so with the patronising rant to Eruhen and all. Ah great.

Legate of Amon Lanc - can't judge him yet, really. Doesn't have the false friendliness of a Legatewolf, but could be he just learnt from always making the same mistake...


edit: xed with all

[Thinlómien]

*waves happily at Sally* Long time no see!

Zil - if your post

Originally Posted by #26

This kerfluffle over the Acolyte does serve another purpose, I see. Interesting.

doesn't refer to Lottie's previous post some ten minutes earlier:

Originally Posted by #25

Manage to? Is this something you're hoping will happen?

then what does it refer to?

[Rikae]

So...

did Inzil really join Lottie's "suspicion" (which I took as a joke) of Pitch for his "manage to", or no? I don't see where he did. Where is this coming from, otherwise?

Also, I'd like to point out that if Nogrod is innocent he will decide that I'm guilty at some point and that I have some complicated scheme up my sleeve that only Nogrod could invent.
If he fails to do so, I'll suspect him.

EDIT: X'd with Inzil and Lommy.

[Eönwë]

Said the Tortoise to the Mûmak
Why art thou so big?
The size of house, but e'en a louse
Can through thy deep skin dig.
What purpose is their for thy size
When small foe holds thee at bay?
For being small, thou may me chastise
But this is what I say.

Said the Mûmak to the Tortoise
Why art thou so slow?
A house thou carriest upon thy back
So thou can'st never grow.
And even when thou strayest from home
What can that shelter bring?
When the large birds may pick thee up
And drop from high on wing?

Wise old horse came wand'ring past
Alone did gallop he
Thinking 'why do they not run as well
to where they want to be?'


Note: Just got back to the computer, thought I'd posted this about 20 minutes ago, but now the mood has changed and Legate's turned up.

edit: bolded name