TIG XCIII - Betrayal at Henneth Annûn (Game thread)

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Oh, look, she did it again!

[Bom Tombadillo]

Blrrrrg. Day 1's . . . even once serious discussion starts, I can never keep them straight.

We dursn't like Shasta, no, precious, we dursn't like him at all. Nice G55 just seems to want answers and avoid misunderstandings (nasty, nassssty misunderstandings) to me - so would we, were we less busy reveling in the chaos.

[Boromir88]

So, I kind of just been hit with an unexpected backslap of bad news. I'll be ok as far as continuing on with the game, but at the moment I seriously can't focus and don't want to spend the next few hours fighting with myself to try to stay focused.

I'd feel wrong voting for anyone under these circumstances. The most suspicious to me has been Agan, but I've been holding off to wait and hear her response before actually deciding on a vote.

Next would probably be Inzil, I just think he's playing sly and careful right now. As if he's waiting around to see which way the winds are blowing before committing anything more sincere. Which always gives me BN-ish vibes.

I'd like it not at all if sally or G55 gets lynched, but that's based on general impression and feelings of innocence and not on any strong reasoning.

That's all. Sorry everyone.

Edit: crossed with G55

[Galadriel55]

I'm sorry to hear that, Boro. I hope it works out in the end.

[Pomegranate]

Boro, hope you're okay, you shouldn't stress about this.

I did actually consciously notice Agan's comment about jumpiness. I had noted that myself, being the one G55 jumped at, but didn't consider it worthy of mentioning, thinking it was more my lack of being able to emphasise my jokes than anything else. With the second comment to Agan's lists she raised my suspicion level by acting again in the somewhat panicked, if only half-serious manner. I did borrow the word from Lommie and Agan, but I genuinely did think about the suspicion myself.

Have to love Boro's theory, and I would think it would've been a wonderful plot from Agan, if it were. I'm not sure about either of them, and I want to hear Agan's reaction to all this. However, as I had noticed the jumpi-ness myself as well, I see that as a reasonable comment, which doesn't too strongly imply to her as being a BN.

I don't have the time to go through all of you, but I was disturbed by Bom's pretty uninformative post, went through the day and realised all her posts were pretty similar - not commenting anything or anyone strongly enough to raise suspicion/attention, but frequent enough for it to seem she's actively around. Now I don't know the normal playing techniques of everyone, so I can't know if that's just her/his way, but to me it gives a bad vibe. Though now I'm obviously playing on the same 'vibe' level as she is. However, maybe I could get something more out of her by this.

Oh, and PomPom/Nate/Pommy is a she and dislikes the name Meg in general. Thank you for all of these.

edit. I should preview these, I am so bad in this bolding thing.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I have remained quiet for a while due to Boromir’s theory. My initial reaction to his theory was that it was a case of over-analyzing relatively mundane day1 suspicions. This was probably fuelled by the fact, that my initial reaction to Aganzir’s post was one of understanding.


However Boromir have managed to argue his case very well, especially his focus on the contradictions and borrowed elements in Aganzir’s post made me think twice. Should I abandon my initial feeling about Aganzir on the basis of a day1 analysis, that only really deal with a single post? I think I will decide against it, at least until further developments have taken place.

Boromir’s case is good and I definitely have good feeling about him, but Aganzir’s post strikes me as a typical first post. Of course one a first post can be the basis of a lynch and there definitely are some unanswered questions about the post, but I want to see more before voting for Aganzir. It is much more likely that I will vote for a person like Sally or BomT, both of which fails at being constructive in my opinion (so far).

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Pomegranate

I did borrow the word from Lommie and Agan, but I genuinely did think about the suspicion myself.

Do you mean Lottie? Lommy/Lommie isn't playing in this game, and she's a completely different person (Thinlomien)

Originally Posted by Pomegranate

I don't have the time to go through all of you, but I was disturbed by Bom's pretty uninformative post, went through the day and realised all her posts were pretty similar

Bom's a him.

Originally Posted by Pom

Now I don't know the normal playing techniques of everyone, so I can't know if that's just her/his way, but to me it gives a bad vibe. Though now I'm obviously playing on the same 'vibe' level as she is. However, maybe I could get something more out of her by this.

Bom is usually like that, but normally he jokes around more. In the past 3 or so games Day1 was purely an argument of whether we should suspect him based on his joking manner.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

So, I kind of just been hit with an unexpected backslap of bad news.

I hope it'll all turn out allright, Boro. You're excused for the Day as far as I'm concerned.

Everybody else: as you were.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Bom Tombadillo

Blrrrrg. Day 1's . . . even once serious discussion starts, I can never keep them straight.

We dursn't like Shasta, no, precious, we dursn't like him at all. Nice G55 just seems to want answers and avoid misunderstandings (nasty, nassssty misunderstandings) to me - so would we, were we less busy reveling in the chaos.

So why bother trying, amirite?

So, Bom doesn't like me from the very first statement of the game I make. Color me surprised. He also doesn't say why... but then, I suppose that's hardly surprising either.

Anyway.

Boro, I hope whatever's troubling you goes away.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

On one hand, my gut says Boro is genuine enough

Boro is never genuine. No matter what his role, he always has something up his sleeve and is no good to trust.

Originally Posted by Green

he might just try and pull off an easy Agan lynch (her being a relatively popular Day 1 lynch anyway)

Am not!

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Oh, we are dancing now? *secretly fist pumps* I should hope I'm better than last time we danced, or I dare say this will end badly for the both of us, but mostly for me.

Let's hope so.

Originally Posted by Boro

So the full explanation, of the classic BN attempt. Knowing Agan wanted to cut the garbage and get down to business, then her lists would be more meaningful than G55's list of randomness

I hate to disappoint you, but I'm afraid it isn't a lot better than Gal's. The difference is, she based it on things that had little or nothing to do with the actual gameplay while I used things people had said themselves. It's more to demonstrate that even though more than half the day had passed, there was no content whatsoever; and if I had had to vote then, I would've been forced to base it on IC stuff.
In answer to Gal: the list itself is serious (except what I said about Greenie). However it's also very indifferent, I never bothered to take pains to draw connections between things & people because I could have gathered pretty much nothing from it. It's not like I actually suspected you four at the moment. I wanted suspects, and you fit there the most easily. Do you see what I mean if I say it wasn't a joke, but it wasn't serious-serious either?

Originally Posted by Boro

That is to say, you were willing to vote based on either being annoyed, or to scare Bom, Glirdan, and sally into shaping up and NOT based on suspicions...yet you did the whole "let me give you some suspicions" thing well enough.

Fair enough.

Originally Posted by Boro

I admit, it may be cruel, because it must feel like I've used you as bait

It's not - I knew what you were up to, and I know you know, having done it before, that I don't mind being used for the greater good. At least as long as it doesn't get out of hand.

Originally Posted by Loslote

You know, I didn't even realize that I was following Agan's comment when I said mine until I saw that bolded in your post! It's the sort of thing you pass over when reading the rest of the post, but sticks in your mind...now I'm wondering if my thinking G55 suspicious was even my idea in the first place, or just my subconcious picking that up.

That's pretty much everything there is to werewolf, especially on day 1s. Someone gets the idea and half the people follow it. I'm not sure I agree with those who said this sounds genuine. Humble, yes, but I think it could go either way.

I accidentally scratched my eye and now it hurts. Just felt like sharing this with you because it's never happened before during these 8 years of long nails.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

After looking at this it was hard for me to take all the rest (innocent and either) seriously, until I reached the part where she said she'll vote the mock-voters. That got me confused. Agan, where were you serious and where were you not?

Actually, the list was more serious than saying I'd vote for the mock-voters. If no one has said anything of value, then I have to do with the random stuff if I want to suspect somebody.

Aww Boro I hope everything is ok! *snuggles*

[Galadriel55]

I'm trying to get my brain around making a serious joke list. So you wanted to make a serious one but had nothing to go off of so made up random opinions?

I'll get it eventually.

[Galadriel55]

It's strangely quiet for an hour before DL. Who's votimg whom?


My opinion about Zil and Rune hasn't changed, but these are likely to be throwaways. But what's a throwaway if everyone puts a random name down at the last second?

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I'm trying to get my brain around making a serious joke list. So you wanted to make a serious one but had nothing to go off of so made up random opinions?

I'll get it eventually.

If I say it was neither serious nor a joke, it obviously can't be a serious joke list. Anyway I really don't see your issue with this. You seemed to take it as a joke until Boro said it's not, and you've made quite a fuss about it ever since. You also make me sound like I really really wanted to make a list because lists are the ultimate thing to do, or something (in other words, your interpretation of my actions is rather unflattering ).

You're also starting to sound like Greenie. In a bad way. In a way that eventually makes me fight her every time we play together. You can take it as a compliment if you like.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

It's strangely quiet for an hour before DL. Who's votimg whom?

I'm actually thinking about voting for you. It's partly your strange insistence on my list, partly your slight jumpiness (compared to everyone else), and partly what Lottie just said about your helpfulness without contributing a lot.

I'll try to get my thoughts in order.

By the way Lottie, I totally cracked up at 2G110.

[Glirdan]

Gah!!! I am terribly sorry for my lack of talking. Even though I have access in the palm of my hands at all times, it is terribly difficult to do anything involving reading on a phone.

I've been keeping up as much as possible with this hindrance, but only with some of the conversations., the main being between Agan and Boro, and even that is very shoddy as I have been quite busy since the Day started.

Now, I am not sure what to think concerning Agan and Boro. When I re-read Agan's first post after Boro voiced his initial concer of her, I found nothing overly suspicious in it myself. Actually, being the first to start any real form of discussion, I'd rather like to believe the opposite of Agan. However, with Boro gone for the Day, I would rather leave this and let it settle, at least for toDay, to let him gather his thoughts and deal with whatever happened. (and Boro, take the time you need my friend to deal with whatever happened).

Now, we're in a pickle as one of our most vocal players is out of commission for the time being and there are far too many of us flying under the radar, myself included.

I'm going to try and go back and read through some more as much as possible but I will not be able to respond for a little while.

[Loslote]

I like what Rune says. His reasoning is clear and makes sense - plus I agree with a lot of it.

G55 still tips my wolf-dar, partially because of the jumpy thing earlier (I know it's probably a pick-up from Agan's post, but that doesn't make it any less valid a point) and partially because her posts so far seem like they're contributing, but when you look closer, they aren't actually that helpful - clarifying Lottie vs Lommie, Bom's gender, and asking Agan to clarify which bits are serious...in I believe five separate posts, which ended up just keeping the question open without ever adding anything new to it. It seems to me like she's trying to appear helpful without actually contributing.

PomeNate is doing exceptionally well for a newbie. Kudos.

Shasta and Boro, for now, feel very much like their normal, innocent selves. Obviously not going to pass them off as definitely innocent, but I feel comfortable with not focusing my attention on them too much yet.

I can never read Agan, but as far as I can tell, there's nothing too horrifingly Mordorian going on in her posts as of yet.

Anyone else needs to post more so I can get a read on them. *coughBom*cough*Sally*cough*Zil*cough*Greenie*cough*Glirdy*cough*Nog*cough*

EDIT: xed with two G55s. Would that be a 2G110?

[Inziladun]

Just returned from watching my daughter cheer a basketball game, and catching up.

[Loslote]

We've got another two hours, right? Or do I have DL wrong?

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Loslote

We've got another two hours, right? Or do I have DL wrong?

One. Look at the time-stamps of my posts opening N1 and D1 - that's DL.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Lottie

You know, I didn't even realize that I was following Agan's comment when I said mine until I saw that bolded in your post! It's the sort of thing you pass over when reading the rest of the post, but sticks in your mind...now I'm wondering if my thinking G55 suspicious was even my idea in the first place, or just my subconcious picking that up.

I can't make up my mind on this one. The honesty looks good, but then again, I'm not sure what's so very terrible about picking up an idea someone else voiced first. Generally, if you're innocent and suspect somebody for a reason, realizing that someone else has made the same point shouldn't necessarily cause you to backtrack, least of all this hastily. Whose idea some point originally was doesn't really matter if you find it valid. Then, later on, she returns to suspecting Gal, which is logical, but doesn't make the post quoted above make any more sense.

Originally Posted by Boro

Now surely, one who was actively annoyed by the silly unproductivity of the early posts would not add further to it by making joke suspicions?

Well, looks like we have a problem then, given that that was pretty much what I read Agan's first post as. (Anyway, Boro, hope you're all right, you know we love you.)

Originally Posted by Agan

You're also starting to sound like Greenie. In a bad way.

Is that possible?

To summarize some general thoughts and feelings -

- Agan and Boro will both get a pass from me today, if only out of gratitude for giving us something to talk about, but more prudently because I find both of them rather more innocent than not at the moment, or if one is a wolf I'm not sure enough which it is.

- Actually, what was originally a purely Agan-Boro-thing has expanded to involve also Lottie and Gal. I am speaking, of course, of the affair of Lottie suspecting Gal, initially basing her suspicion unconsciously on Agan's, later bringing up further points against her. The points are valid enough, but the thing is, Gal is another very easy Day 1 lynch which makes me uncomfortable with the whole thing.


EDIT: Gah, x-ed with a host!

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

I can't make up my mind on this one. The honesty looks good, but then again, I'm not sure what's so very terrible about picking up an idea someone else voiced first. Generally, if you're innocent and suspect somebody for a reason, realizing that someone else has made the same point shouldn't necessarily cause you to backtrack, least of all this hastily. Whose idea some point originally was doesn't really matter if you find it valid. Then, later on, she returns to suspecting Gal, which is logical, but doesn't make the post quoted above make any more sense.

It wasn't so much that I was alarmed that Agan had made the same point, but that my first line was practically identical to hers ("Jumpy, are we?" and "Jumpy much?"). I found it a bit alarming that I could post something so similar to what she'd said and not have realized it - plus I didn't want to follow someone else's points so exactly and unconciously when I can't say for absolute certainty that she isn't trying to mislead me.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Agan

Rune. Seems sensible enough and cannot really be blamed of opportunism - he tries to remain objective even though he doesn't really need to.

That's exactly my scruple with him, though! He's sensible, yes, but the trying to remain objective is opportunism of sorts, isn't it? Leaving all doors open, waiting to see which looks the most promising?

Anyway, I wouldn't mind voting Lottie, actually. Don't want to vote Gal, she doesn't look like a wolf to me. Or I might take Rune's lead and go for someone not contributing.


EDIT: x-ed with Lottie

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Loslote

G55 still tips my wolf-dar, partially because of the jumpy thing earlier (I know it's probably a pick-up from Agan's post, but that doesn't make it any less valid a point) and partially because her posts so far seem like they're contributing, but when you look closer, they aren't actually that helpful - clarifying Lottie vs Lommie, Bom's gender, and asking Agan to clarify which bits are serious...in I believe five separate posts, which ended up just keeping the question open without ever adding anything new to it. It seems to me like she's trying to appear helpful without actually contributing.

Indeed, the last few posts were quite empty. All of them, if you consider stretching an argument over many posts one thing. But do you have suggestions for some talk?

This Day1 is even quieter than Day Ones usually are. There's usually some morsel that everyone chews on until DL, but here the only thing we have to discuss is Boro's accusation and Agan's defense. That was the only "big thing". It seems that Agan was being Agan and Boro was being Oldman. That's settled. Now what?

I hope to be more helpful when there's something to do.

Originally Posted by Lottie

EDIT: xed with two G55s. Would that be a 2G110?

No, it would be that I have been cloned.

Edit: xed since #71

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Seems Innocent Enough:
Boromir: I had a bit of an ambivalent feeling about his now infamous “Oldman Defence”, but since then he has been impressive. He has show keen analytical skills and it will interesting to see what he has to say later on, when there actually is something to analyse.
Aganzir: I could follow her reasoning in her first post and since then she has been excellent at dealing with the questions thrown her way.
Pommy: I liked the initial post as it provoked a serious response, even if it was made in jest. Haven’t committed to a path as the other two in this category, but on a day1 it is acceptable. Has voiced some concerns and generally I have a good feeling about her (also an acceptable reason on day1)

Haven’t made up my mind ye (but inclined to think of as innocent):
Shasta: Interesting comment he had about how Galadriel tried to dismiss the topic when it started to generate too much attention, has seemed reasonable. On the other hand he hasn’t done too much and could be a BN trying sneak by on being just active enough.
Loslote: What she says seems reasonable, I think her suspicions against Galadriel are completely valid and she voices some concerns that I share. Of course one could think of a scenario, where going after Galadriel on the basis (maybe) of what Aganzir said would be a BN ploy. . .but I think that is entirely implausible.
Inziladun: Maybe it is because he could relate to what I said about the sillines that makes me think possitivly about Inzil, but anyways there haven’t been anything sneaky. Again could of course be BN on the low.

Don’t know enough to have an opinion:
Glirdan
Nogrod
A Little Green

Voting Potential:
Galadriel55: My suspicion is based on the arguments of Lottie, Shasta and my own initial annoyance. The jumpiness/many but not very helpful posts, mixed with the attempts to dismiss one discussion, whilst on the same time going on and on about Aganzir’s silly/serious post does present a case. That being said I she is right now the one I am least likely to vote for, because none of the above are very incriminating and because she has shown willingness to participate and move the debate forward (to some degree).
BomT: Just not good enough. I don’t really care if it is his style or not. Goofing around an entire day and not really making a contribution (even though clearly present) is not something that I believe is acceptable.Right now BomT is my top candidate for a vote.
Sally: Exactly the same as BomT

It is fair enough that you don’t have time to participate much everyday, and I do not expect everybody to come up with highly original thoughts, but don’t waste the time of your fellow rangers by not taking the game seriously.