Christopher Tolkien at it again....

[Pitchwife]

I'm not quite sure whether this is real news or satire, but if the former, the matter is reaching undreamt-of heights of absurdity. Will the Estate's next legal action be an attempt to get maps of Great Britain banned?

Originally Posted by G55

Well, the badge doesn't seem to favour people who read Tolkien... If it said something like "Long Live Professor Tolkien!", I'm sure they would allow it.

Yep. Nobody seemed to mind those stickers saying "Frodo Lives" or "Gandalf for President" back in the 60s.
It's all very sad.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Nobody seemed to mind those stickers saying "Frodo Lives" or "Gandalf for President" back in the 60s.
It's all very sad.

The 60's were just a bit before my time, but back then the LOTR and Tolkien names did not readily lend themselves to Olympian heights of moneymaking potential. Now they do, largely thanks to PJ and Co.
I still believe that the difference between the reactions of the Estate to what they perceive as potential threats to the copyrights on Tolkien's work in the past few years, and the generally more liberal stance in earlier years might be an effect of the movies' aftermath. Not saying they're right to be so heavy-handed, but at least that could be an explanation for it.

[davem]

Well, the Tolkien Estate have managed to make themselves look dumb & alienate loads of fans.

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201...response.shtml

&

Get them here http://www.zazzle.com/Harpocrates

[skip spence]

Just a question...

Knowing very little about all this, I spontaneously doubt that Christopher Tolkien, who must be ancient by now, personally is the driving force behind these copyright cases. Isn't it more likely that the Estate hired a bunch of good (and with good I mean skilled) copyright lawyers and told then to do their thing and serve the organization? Or am I wrong?

[davem]

Originally Posted by skip spence

Just a question...

Knowing very little about all this, I spontaneously doubt that Christopher Tolkien, who must be ancient by now, personally is the driving force behind these copyright cases. Isn't it more likely that the Estate hired a bunch of good (and with good I mean skilled) copyright lawyers and told then to do their thing and serve the organization? Or am I wrong?

I don't think lawyers act unilaterally. Behind this is either CT or his son Adam - probably both. That said Adam is probably taking over the reigns. We can't blame Adam for the Drout/Beowulf episode, but we may be seeing more of his hand in current events. CT is the 'figurehead' though.

The problem, as I mentioned, is that this kind of behaviour (& we've seen similar things coming out of Disney, & Warner Bros re Harry Potter) makes an organisation look bullying & alienates fans. Fans usually have a sense that a particular book/film/tv show sort of 'belongs' to them - not in any 'legal' sense, obviously - but that they are part of a community of likeminded folk & who have come together around a particular story & set of characters. This is CT/AT/the Estate coming along & screeching 'THIS IS OURS! YOU GET AS MUCH OR AS LITTLE OF THIS AS WE PERMIT - & IF YOU DO ANYTHING WE DON'T LIKE WE WILL PUNISH YOU.' Every action like this is about emphasising that the world & characters you love belong to someone else - they may be in your mind & heart but they are owned by someone else - & you can only speak about or refer to them if the owners allow you to. In short, it gets fans' backs up & is massively counterproductive.

This is all about reputation - if the Estate get a reputation for bullying & pettiness they will lose a lot more than they could possibly gain financially from asserting their rights. Over the last few months I've lost a great deal of respect for the Estate & CT/AT & that's down to their behaviour & their treatment of people who have done nothing wrong - & I'm not the only one. I wonder if anyone still feels just as positively about them as they did - or at least feels the same as they did?

[garm]

Originally Posted by davem

I wonder if anyone still feels just as positively about them as they did - or at least feels the same as they did?

I do. I've changed my mind about davem in the last few months, though.

[davem]

Originally Posted by garm

I do. I've changed my mind about davem in the last few months, though.

Well, if was feeling facetious I could point out that I am not here to live up to your expectations.....

However. Let us not.....

Perhaps you could clarify your position - simply that you will support CT/The Estate no matter what they do - that as far as you are concerned whatever they do must be right simply because they are the ones doing it?

In other words 'rightness' in this context = whatever CT/the Estate choose to do - even if the law, say, decided that they were wrong to threaten legal action against a person/company who produced a jokey badge which mentioned Tolkien (noting, btw, that JRRT/CT are not the only writers of that name - Tolkien's other grandson, Simon, is also a published author), you would still claim that the law in that instance was wrong? Or if the courts decided that using Tolkien as a character in a historical novel (as has happened with numerous other historical figures - & which Tolkien himself did in NCP) was perfectly acceptable?

You see, its all well & good to go on the offensive (& kudos for the Garm = Domini Canes thing) but you haven't put a case, or defended their actions. Its hardly good enough to pop up & say 'Oh, davem, oh, I've changed my mind about davem'. The Estate have acted, they have changed things - books that have been written have been prevented from appearing, books that have appeared they are attempting to ban & have copies destroyed. Someone who makes a jokey badge is threatened & stopped. And your response to these moves is not to defend them or argue any justification, but to simply accept this behaviour & say you're disappointed in anyone who criticises them.

Maybe I expected better of them & you didn't?