Mandos Thread: DEAD ONLY! - WW LXXXVI

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

In fact, you got me thinking along totally revolutionary lines... what if we did it? What if we just abstained from extra-voting? Before you butcher me with jungle knives and pole axes, stop and think about it. What do we gain by giving anyone an extra vote? We have no idea who's innocent and even if we did, we could hardly trust their judgement blindly. And with the current plan, we're not even trying to give an extra vote to an innocent, but to anyone, who might be a wolf or a cobbler just as well as an innocent. So I say it might even make sense check whoever we judge is the most fruitful one to check, refrain from all extra-vote voting (which can even be harmful) and wait for Glorfy to come here and return to the village with a host of really useful information instead of the roles of the ones we've been "forced to" check.

Anyhow, still haven't checked the living thread as I promised. Off to do it now.


edit: xed with Agan

I vehemently disagree with this. Giving extra votes is the only way we have to affect the living thread and I see no reason to ignore that.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

I vehemently disagree with this. Giving extra votes is the only way we have to affect the living thread and I see no reason to ignore that.

Why? Given the strategy we are about to adopt, we can do as much harm as good with that (except for delivering information, of course). Plus, the extra votes can have consequences the living seem to be unaware of. They don't know who has the extra vote, so they can't take it into account when they count the votes. We might cause them to have more double lynches, which I think is something we definitely don't want especially after yesterDay. Think outside the box.

(Gosh, now I know how the phantom must feel like all the time. And now I'm appreciating Rikae and Mac's genius even more, everything in this game seems to be a double-edged sword.)


edit: xed with Agan

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I think I've mentioned that I have a nasty cold? I was going to try to ignore it, but due to how insistent it got, I stopped being able to ignore it due to being curled up in a ball on the bathroom floor with a wad of tissues, trying to stop sneezing long enough to breathe.

So I took Nyquil. Which is about to combine with my other medications and knock me out. Not in a dangerous way, just in a way that means I will absolutely not be awake until tomorrow.

So here's hoping nobody needs me until I wake up again.

Have fun, kids. Celebrate being able to breathe through your noses. You tend to forget how nice that is...

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

Ah, because I've shown so many signs of being a cobbler, up to and including consistent behavior, insistence that nobody false reveal, insistence that we don't mess with the village's understanding of our communication system, rational votes, expressions of concern over the rationality of certain plans... Clearly my role in this game is to sow confusion, to revel in chaos, to otherwise be mean, naughty, and nasty.

As someone who has supported Not Being Evil from the very beginning of this game, I daresay you have nothing to fear of me swooping in to change my vote at the last minute.

Well, it was mainly the idea that as the few roles I know now seem to be so like too fitting - and as I know tp is a cobbler...

But it was not that much serious. Maybe the way you went being best friends with Agan is looking a bit opportunistic (the easy trust in a game is looking weird; but as such it would have not been much), but anyway. With saying exactly that, I was kind of hoping to discourage you from doing that last second change. I mean whatever your role, nice to be certain now that you won't do it. Had I not raised that discussion up - and if you were a cobbler - you could have played tricks there. Now you probably don't.

Playing it safe.

As I said, I don't know if we won anything here, but it's possible we did. And were you the cobbler we might have lost something.

Also, Seer, if you're that concerned I'm secretly a cobbler, and just doing a really awesome job of convincing everybody that I'm squeaky clean, why not just dream of me? Why not just prove to yourself, if nobody else, that I'm sneaky?

Ah, because you have the excuse of dreaming of Nessa. My bad.

I was actually wavering between Nessa, you and Lommy. I mean I get the exact roles and not only this not-a-wolf / wolf stuff. And I was curious.

But in the end I decided that I had not that much on thinking either of you as a cobbler and the chance of getting a wolf was heavier on the scales - so I picked Nessa.

And actually got the answer just a moment ago.



Nessa is an ordinary innocent.



PS. And all that reaction from Fea when I only said what she quoted there in #136? That wasn't anything too serious, just plain stating what we would know if... And said by a person everyone "knows" is not the seer but a cobbler?

If you were so sure that I'm the cobbler - and trusted that everyone esle trusted that as well, why bother?

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Did you notice that? Well, I didn't, except an hour ago. I know this is no proof to any direction about me being the seer or that people may lose important lines from the bottom of a message when they read fast. But I hope you think of the possibility of those two things is not totally improbable.

Just for clarification, without the intent to say anything about Nogrod's role: That statement was generic. There are no clues in the narrations except the obvious ones.

[Macalaure]

The wolves consulted with Glorfindel and found the current occupancy of the Halls of Mandos entirely satisfactory.

Also, be informed that Lommy is... not a wolf.


The living:

Glirdan
A Little Green
elronds_daughter
Nerwen
Loslote
wilwarin538
Legate
satansaloser2005
the phantom
Boromir88
Mithalwen
Anguirel


The dead:

Rikae (mod)
Macalaure (co-mod)
Mänwe (not a wolf)
Nogrod
Blind Guardian
Feanor of the Peredhil
Aganzir (Beren)
Shastanis Althreduin (Lúthien)
Thinlómien (not a wolf)
Nessa Telrunya


It is now Day 4. Whom will the dead endow with twice the power to choose their next fellow?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

HAH. Take that, wolves, and way to go Glorfindel!

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Strike what I said. Evens. Not-wolf means evens.

I'm going back to sleep.

[Rikae]

Naturally, the Day has been extended here, as on the living thread.

[Aganzir]

A Little Green
Nerwen
wilwarin538
satansaloser2005
Boromir88
Anguirel

I believe these are our options for the double vote. I think everyone is free to choose whom they wish as long as one of them gets it. Personally I am not going to vote for Greenie (suspicious of her), Nerwen (just to be on the safe side) or Angu (because I have no idea what he's up to even though I liked his comments on Lottie, Glirdy & ed).

Originally Posted by Glirdan

I personally think a double toDay could be a very bad idea seeing as we're loosing Agan on top of whoever we lynch. --- I'm leaning more towards Nessa

I think this sounds very innocent. A baddie could have just gone along with phantom's plan, saying 'Yeah that's probably worth trying!' Even more so because his primary choice would have been Nessa whose role we don't know (instead of non-wolf Lommy).

Originally Posted by the phantom

Let's say he reveals both himself and his target.

And dies and brings back as little information as possible.

Originally Posted by the phantom

I completely forgot the fact that Agan hadn't voted either of the top two candidates, plus Shasta didn't vote, and those two were pretty well guaranteed to have the power

Bollocks. I don't believe that for a second.

As far as Nessa... We ought to debate tomorrow (or late today after the vote is decided) if we'd rather have our latest lynch checked or her, but that's not an issue for now.

It isn't? If you debate it tomorrow, then whom do we check tonight?

It occurs to me that the phantom has previously employed a cobbler impersonation tactic as a gifted, though (wilwa's Fairytale game, remember Fea?). That time he was kind of more obvious, though - now he's just suggesting flawed plans while saying he isn't actually suggesting them (instead he's making people waste their time pointing out the flaws in them).

Originally Posted by Boromir88

If I know Agan, she's going to be a drill sergeant

Hahaha!

Originally Posted by Boromir88

No. It's best if we tell the dead exactly what we want now. Leaving to decide this later in the day will only clutter up the lynch, and also make it easier for any baddies to mess up and put an end to Agan's plan.

It was this (and Boro's previous post) that made me feel better about him. Of course things might not be as simple as they seem, but a baddie gains little by saying this.

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

There are lots of ways of doing it someone with numbers in name, one word name.... but for today odds and evens is just fine. Of course we don't have to vary the system at all but if pointing out we could stymies a wolftrick

I like this.

Originally Posted by Anguirel

I am inclined now to suspect Elron more than Glirdan and Loslote more than Sauron.

Speaking of ed - her two previous games she's been very undecided, not really having opinions on people. This got her suspected last time, at least by me. She seems to have changed her style a great deal... I wonder if it's just because she has more experience now, or if she has fellows helping her out. Remember also the self-conscious first post after the first wolf-kill.

Okay the Downs went down just when I was going to post this. Comments on what's been going on here, then.

Originally Posted by BG

No, it's from past WW games. There's only three from this game and two only ask if I'm around! Besides it's not my role anymore.

I suppose there's no chance you would've been, say... the seer?
(Naturally assuming the mods think it's okay she says it.)

I still don't believe Nog. He looks better here than he did in the living thread (which doesn't mean much, though), but it's the living thread that really matters. However I'm not going to keep arguing with him unless I see a reason to because that serves no purpose.

Originally Posted by Nog

If you just vote for someone you trust now (well 24 hours fom now), you have no idea whether that vote decides a doublelynch or the death of your other "most innocent" player!

We wouldn't know that even if there was no plan. If we're afraid of influencing the lynch, no one should vote at all.

Originally Posted by Nog

How about we decided that no one else votes for the extravote but Shasta whom we know is a goodie and (hopefully) can be around at the DL - trying to fit his vote with both the "system of evens and unevens" and doing his best to do what we - well you as you don't trust me - want him to.

Problems. There's no way we can be sure someone is not a cobbler, and if we agree only one person votes, the cobblers can easily mess it up. Plus what happens if Shasta isn't around at the deadline like happened on my last day with the living?

Originally Posted by Fea

Have fun, kids. Celebrate being able to breathe through your noses. You tend to forget how nice that is...

Aww get well soon. *nuzzles*

Now, let me think about the double voting thing.
The wolves know Lommy was not one, therefore they know either Green, Nerwen, wilwa, sally, Boro or Angu is getting the extra vote. They are probably looking at whom most people (especially I) suspected or found innocent, and it's possible they're weighing their vote with that in mind. Therefore it might be good to give it to someone unexpected... But while I don't think us Finns (well, Nog excluded ) should refrain from voting just because we're most likely not around at the deadline, it might usually be a good idea to spread the votes and leave it up to our American friends to decide who gets it. On the other hand, I'm uncomfortable with this because we have no idea how many cobblers we have here.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

I am not a bally suitcase. I am not meant to have a handle.

Hahaha love this!

Hmm. Actually the fact that Boro suggested the living vote on whom we check doesn't tell us anything about him. If Nessa is a wolf, there's a chance we check somebody else - or if we don't, it makes him look better. If she's innocent, there's a chance we don't check a lynched wolf (yet). But then, he wasn't actively trying to stir up discussion, he just said they should do it... Grr I hate his tricksiness!

Who do you think was attacked last night? I'm tempted to say Mith because no one really suspects her and she came up with some very good ideas...

[Rikae]

Hm, all these sending-messages-to-the-living plots seem to have killed my dead thread. Perhaps I should throw a wrench in the works, and stop revealing who gets the double votes at all?