Game Thread: WW LXXXVI - The Halls of Mandos

[Aganzir]

Now I almost regret saying Lommy looks more innocent. I think it's far-fetched to put ed in the innocent category - she certainly has done little to make me think her innocent even if she hasn't been actively suspicious either (except her "Oh dear poor Shasta" thing which I don't particularly like because newbie wolves often feel very self-conscious about the kill or about being wolves in general and feel the need to express it in some way).

And I honestly don't see why Nessa is being suspected so heavily so I don't quite get why Lommy is getting wolf vibes from her (especially as she admits to feeling the same way about her). Granted, I wasn't suspicious of her last time she was a wolf, either - she just seems like the kind of player I accept with "that's just how she is" even if she is being suspicious.
And sally is busy which should explain the absence of the funny sally.

[satansaloser2005]

PAGES ONE THROUGH THREE....gah, this is going to take forever....

Originally Posted by Boromir88

In some ways this situation is a curse for the wolves. Whenever you have roles revealed at death, the wolves have the night to concoct whatever story they want, because everyone now knows the person's role. And the wolves can spin the lynch however they want. "How did that bandwagon happen against Glirdan yesterday! There must be a wolf in that evil wagon!" (when really it's just a false lead because as everyone would now know Glirdan's role) However, not getting the role at the person's death, means the wolves can't manipulate any information from the lynch, because to the non-wolves there is no info for the wolves to manipulate.

I think this is both true and misleading. The wolves will still use everything to their advantage. Since we don’t know roles, they could easily lynch me (for instance) and claim the next Day that I was clearly wolfish and that my wolfishness points to X, Y, and Z. They can’t manipulate the information, no, but they can more easily manipulate based on the lack of information.

Also, Boro mentioned twitter. Thus, he must die.

Originally Posted by Anguirel

1) The ability of the dead to detect wolves is triggered after three deaths (surely not counting the coavalta co-mods). In the normal way of things, there will only be two by tomorrow. Might we want to engineer a double-lynching so that the Dead can start helping us with their deliberations earlier?

2) The wolves are in a bit of a bind here. They need to survive to win, but if they altogether lack representation in the second chamber (qualified for by death) they will be missing out on valuable intelligence and will be vulnerable to a more united front from the Dead. I suspect, therefore, that they will actively want one of their number - probably no more than that, at least for a while - to die as early as possible. They will at least hope that the cobblers do. Maybe they'll try and identify and lynch the cobblers, even.

Re: #1. Oh, goodness, no. The only time I’d go for a multiple lynch is if we had a darn good chance of catching a wolf, and even then it could end poorly. What if we lynch two cobblers? They could influence the dead thread and get us pretty much no information whatsoever.

Re: #2. This is actually a good point. Too good, in fact. It’s good to think on wolf tactics, but this seems too much like a wolf planning ahead.

This is making me think that tangy Ang is more like fangy Ang.

Originally Posted by Anguirel

A union of dead Elves who trusted each other with good reason could do the wolves real damage (as Gifteds who recognise each other have managed to do in the past). Cobblers are all very well, but they don't really know who they're helping; a wolf, especially if they were sacrificed in such a way that they looked very convincing, could do much more informed damage.

I'm quite keen on finding out about the inside of Mandos, in fact; I'm struggling with the urge to volunteer myself for the 'great adventure'...never before have I felt so Elven. Voting for myself would be precisely the opposite of rationality (which I find appealing), while avoiding the exact Nilpaurion cliche because of our unique plight. But I will, at the moment, resist. I wouldn't want any of you to think I was a cobbler, or even a coward.

And a union of baddies in the dead thread can compromise what little information we can get. Cobblers, special information or not, are perceptive and can do more damage than we often realize.

And that? That just makes me....gah, wolf radar is pinging like mad. If you’re an ordo, you dying will do the village no good. If you’re a wolf, this serves your team a great advantage.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

satansaloser2005 - fishy as a fish.

Impressive, especially considering that I hadn’t said anything at the time (except for my short post saying that I wouldn’t be back due to scheduling/internet issues). Yes. Terribly suspicious of me. :/

Originally Posted by the phantom

1) There is absolutely no point to the Lovers hinting in any way towards themselves or even towards their partner.

2) The Seer should commit suicide right away.

3) Glorfindel should... um... I don't know. Commit suicide soon to gain double protections and give us a trusted source until the baddies are forced to flush a kill on him in order to re-dead him? Or stay alive as long as possible to be a late-game news bearer between the threads?

What, yes!, and definitely(ish) respectively. I can’t believe I’m agreeing with Phantom, but our gifteds (at least our ranger) are better undead than unharmed. I’m almost tempted to say that the ranger should come out and be double lynched toDay, but there are too many problems with the plan to even begin to count. If our ranger was brave and selfless, however, I’d totally be up for it. At the same time, however, it would be better to sacrifice the ranger at a later time, so they could bring back the most information possible from the dead thread. Save more people or bring us more information? It’s up to us to decide which is more valuable.

Originally Posted by plotting pudding

Not to mention that the Dead can indirectly pass information to the Living. The rules say that the narration will reveal each person who receives the extra Dead vote that day. What if the Dead agreed to always give their extra vote to whichever person the Seer dreamed to be innocent!! If we agree to this, then we could pass every innocent dream from the dead Seer to the Living, and if the voting weight is repeated on the same person, that will be a sign that the dream from the previous night was a Wolf (or died), which also could help.

Also, plans could be made on the Dead Thread and passed up to the Living, such as, "Tell them that so-and-so is getting dreamed tonight when I dream, and if that person doesn't receive the extra vote the following day then they must be a Wolf." Are you following me with this, or am I completely off base and forgetting something obvious?

He continues to make scarily good sense (see underlined). The only problem is catching the correct balance between when to do that. The seer dreaming the dead is just as useful as them dreaming the living. If we could figure out a way to keep a steady information flow, I think a dead seer could be just as useful as a living one.

Here’s a different plan. Why couldn’t the seer dream of the person we lynched every Day, and we could work out a system to evaluate guilt or innocence that way? Sure, we’d be on a delay, but it’d be better than no information at all.

Originally Posted by Nessa Telrunya

Well, good Day, and many excuses for my absence!

And to move on to more productive matters.... This will be just as difficult for the wolves, yes? They won't know who it is they kill, so our information is equal.

Aaand, that's all I've got. It's better than math for a first post though, huh? We all know where that went Not to mention the dead thread would probably break my calculator.

This just screams wolf to me, and you can’t convince me otherwise. It’s like she’s concocted the perfect friendly cute useless but hoping to be helpful post. Wolf! Wolf!

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Ang probably wouldn't have made the suggestions on double-lynches or speculations about wolves willing to send one of them to Mandos if he was a wolf. Too attention-grabbing and wrong.

Wolves can attention grab if they want to. I’m just sayin’.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I'm afraid the loads of different revelations will be one of our major headaches in this game. Remember, it may be we learn nothing from lynching or saving someone who reveal, whatever that person reveals.

Which actually brings me to a point of actually suggesting quite openly something to everyone as howe to play.

Innocents: do not make false revelations!

Sometimes innocents can make false revelations to try to protect someone they think is a gifted - or to some other ends - but in this game that would be foolish. If we could count on no innocents making a false-reveal we could at least narrow down the possibilities with all the influxing revelations that those doing it are either gifteds (and the ones they say they are), cobblers or wolves.

Having not read the rest of the thread, I’m not yet sure what I think about the whole Nog reveal thing, and thus I will say that I could see this either as being a bait for gifteds to reveal so they can kill them or as a plea for no false reveals so that he doesn’t have to counter (thus signifying his giftedness). I’m not ready to go one way or the other yet because....darn, I need to catch up.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Excuse me?!

Sorry, still reading, but that caught my eye and now I'm going to have to challenge Manwe to a duel.

Sneeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeerk.

Originally Posted by Nessa Telrunya

I'm positively stumped about who to vote. Everyone seems so ambiguous!

This seems too strange as well. “Oh no, look at me, I’m so helpless and don’t know what to do!”

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I approve of Nog and phantom advising the gifteds - at least in the sense that it's typical of them. Yeah the gifteds are usually capable of thinking things through themselves, but saying something just to be on the safe side shouldn't hurt anyone.

Who are you and what have you done with Agan?

Originally Posted by the phantom

Long live the Cobblers?

Yes and no. Sorry, dear, but this isn’t so much in the sense-making category. I understand where you’re coming from, but I don’t think it would work. Wolf kills over cobbler kills, yes, but let’s not plan to keep baddies around just because they’re a lower class of evil.

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

My 'Blind Luck' game (from long, long ago) didn't reveal roles, which turned out to be a good thing because I was able to keep the fun going long after the village massacred my wolf team in the first two Days. The point of the game was to see who would be the last person standing, not so much the last team standing, and revealing roles would have messed that up entirely. But anyway, the point is that I didn't reveal roles and the village still successfully took out my wolves one after the other.

Tell me about it, princess. >.<





Would you all be super cross if I said I'd already decided who to vote for? :/

[the phantom]

Okay.... I'm here and trying to catch up!

Just post if there is anything that I need to know about right away or that you wish to ask me. I'll check the new posts every couple minutes.

[Thinlómien]

Phantom, you're pudding. That's all.

[Thinlómien]

Suspicious stuff Nessa has done, according to the posts I just read:
- is wishy-washy, doesn't really say much, is just merisuing around and acting confused
- wants to deadify helpful people (huh?)
- wants to be grateful dead (we should grant her that, eh? )
- on Day1 votes knee-jerkily AND to deadify someone AND apologises for it

Innocent-looking stuff she has done:
- her confusion is so over the top it might as well be unfeigned
- believes Nog (I think a wolf wouldn't have dared to support a seer reveal as questionable as Nog's)

So, basically, her Day1 was really fishy, Day2 a little less so. ToDay she hasn't posted much. I'm going to hang around a bit more, but if I don't get any brilliant inspiration or valuable new evidence, I'm just going to vote Nessa because I don't really have anything better to go on as I'd prefer voting someone I suspct of wolvery, not of cobblery. I think it's our safest bet toDay - and to be honest, rather her than me anyway! Not that it's necessarily going to be a question of that, but I won't be here until deadline.


edit: xed with Sallyx2 and Agan

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Legate

Phantom (this one I don't like, as he was urging it really purposefully, whereas an innocent should at least ponder that it does not have much of a sense to lynch Cobbler, that's exactly what they are here for)

Okay, so that's a total lie.

I was NOT wanting to lynch Nog at all at the start of the day, and even after he made his accusations I tried to engage him, but he refused to speak with me, then after things turned against him I specifically stated that I still wanted to lynch Lommy, and then later I specifically stated that I was not anxious to lynch him as that would be somewhat of a victory for a Cobbler! I was NOT hugely pressing his lynching, and in the end it was more a less a result of him being the only guaranteed baddie and there not being a viable option number two, as it would've required complete and total unity from all the remaining voters to put someone else past Nogrod.

So really, Legate, your "opinion" about what happened yesterday is just completely wrong. You're looking mighty suspicious the way you're creating false reasons for suspicion.

Originally Posted by Ang

Now she's dead I'm pretty sure she wasn't a cobbler.

Quite right. Fea seemed quite unevil to me throughout.

And that's disappointing news about Manwe. I was rather hoping we had lucked out on that one.

*continues reading*

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Lommy

a fair point and makes Boro go quite high on my list of possible cobblers. (Alongside with Phantom, Glirdan, Lottie and several others. I wish I had as many wolf suspects.)

You only have Cobbler suspects because that's the only type of baddie you can legitimately help us look for, seeing as you're a Wolf.

I still stand by my accusation of Lommy on Day 1- here.

If she's not dead by tomorrow I believe I may enter into single-minded crusade mode.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by the phantom

You only have Cobbler suspects because that's the only type of baddie you can legitimately help us look for, seeing as you're a Wolf.

I still stand by my accusation of Lommy on Day 1- here.

If she's not dead by tomorrow I believe I may enter into single-minded crusade mode.

Easy, prince pudding. If she's a wolf, we'll catch her, but she won't be the only one, so don't get too single-minded.

[the phantom]

Yeah... still think Boro's a Cobbler. If he's a Wolf playing Cobbler in order to survive then my hat is off to him. Sorry lad- it's just the impression that I've carried on from Day 1 and I haven't had a chance to hit the reset button, and I can't give you a better explanation than that.

Remembering her leading post from yesterday Daughter doesn't look great, but I kind of lost track of that in the action. She's a vote candidate for me I'd say.

Nessa... bleh... I really need to reread all of her stuff. For some reason I really don't have an impression of her at all. It's a bit unsettling.

Wilwa? How much has she been around this game? And Sally? Are we going to seed more of you?

I've lost my bearings on Green and Lottie, so, similarly to Nessa, I need to reread them. I've gotten good and bad from them I remember, but can't point to specifics.

[satansaloser2005]

Okieday, time to vote.

++Nessa

She initially struck me as evil, and that impression hasn't changed. Thus, death to her.

Phantom, I'll be around for quick bursts, but not too many long posts. I'll do what I can though, I promise. I have no idea where the muffin is though.



EDIT: x'd with Agan

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Wolf vibes
Sally - she hasn't been around much, but the little I've seen isn't entirely convincing. Where's the funny all-over-the-place-Sally we see most of the time? This solemnity is ill-befitting and makes me suspicious.

It's called "Sally doesn't have time to mess around". And I've posted what, three (four now) times? All of which were an explicit apology for not having more time to post? Straws, you are grasping at them. I can understand you being suspicious of me to a point, but to put me in your uber-wolf category? Insensible. And evil? :/

Originally Posted by Aganzir

And sally is busy which should explain the absence of the funny sally.

This. Sorry, kids, but I don't have the webs/time to mess around looking for funnies. If I find them by accident, oh yeah, but I can't go hunting.


Back in a moment. One or two more "decent" posts from me and then I really need to go home. I feel as if I've not made the most of my nets time today, and it makes me all sad and guilty. I'll try to hit up a post from my phone later toNight. Vanilwa, try not to be a jerk about my inability to format/quote correctly, yeah?

[satansaloser2005]

I would like to take this opportunity to point out that Fea (and the other deadites) needs to stop posting in the dead thread. That's three times this evening I've almost mistaken it for this thread. Thus, Fea is/was clearly evil.


ETA: Happy now, Lommie?

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

It's called "Sally doesn't have time to mess around". And I've posted what, three (four now) times? All of which were an explicit apology for not having more time to post? Straws, you are grasping at them. I can understand you being suspicious of me to a point, but to put me in your uber-wolf category? Insensible. And evil? :/

Oh dear, I really seem to frustrate people by suspecting them in this game, don't I? As much as it pains me to admit this, it'll maybe comfort you Sallycakes that you were in the wolf category mostly because (possibly apart from Nessa) I'm suffering from a severe lack of suspects (disincluding possible cobblers of course).

edit: xed with the phantom

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Oh dear, I really seem to frustrate people by suspecting them in this game, don't I? As much as it pains me to admit this, it'll maybe comfort you Sallycakes that you were in the wolf category mostly because (possibly apart from Nessa) I'm suffering from a severe lack of suspects (disincluding possible cobblers of course).

edit: xed with the phantom

Fair enough, darling. I wasn't really cross, just flustered and confused. *pets you*

[Thinlómien]

Ugh, it's almost 3am. Shall be off to brush me teeth and voting once I come back unless there's been lots of interesting posts meanwhile.

Originally Posted by phantom

And that's disappointing news about Manwe. I was rather hoping we had lucked out on that one.

Maybe I shouldn't say this because I voted him myself, but you're attitude strikes me as bafflingly optimistic - or maybe it's more like you said that just because you felt the need to comment on that somehow because you're so conscious of yourself because maybe you're a wolf yourself? Rather random, I know, but kind of a mindset thing which caught my attention.


edit: xed with Sally

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Shasta

Oh, yes, and Fea is high on Nog's suspected list.

Ha ha ha!

Oooh Ooh!! I just got to the place in the thread where there are Lommy votes! I'm excited!

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

And yeah, I know BG is nothing now, but she clearly was before, at least by my reckoning.

Yes but we can't make much of it. The only person who talked about her was Mith who suggested we lynch her because she'd be modfired anyway. If she would've been a wolf, Mith looks better - especially in a game where the roles aren't revealed.

Originally Posted by the phantom

Oooh Ooh!! I just got to the place in the thread where there are Lommy votes! I'm excited!

Phantom, sometimes I am very fond of you.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Oooh Ooh!! I just got to the place in the thread where there are Lommy votes! I'm excited!

*grits teeth* You know, if you're going to start a single-minded crusade against me, I'll be all for a single-minded crusade against you (which is probably not smart given that you're most likely just a cobbler yourself).

Originally Posted by Agan

Ahaha you're never happy now aren't you!

No. She's become funnier, now, though, ha haa.

Anyway

++Nessa

for reasons previously stated. Good night!


edit: xed with Agan who likes all the nasty uncles who are mean to me