WW: LXXXV - The Lost Philosophers of Maiar

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Cailin

#10 - IC banter.

#18 - likes Boro. Approves of Pitch. Wary of Eomer. Votes Agan, 'because I owe her one'. Typical random reason for a Day 1 vote, looks like.

#178 - Thought Sally looked fairly innocent. This comment pings my radar a tiny bit, but it's a Lottie-reason. Thinks Lottie looks shady, looking at the Sallywagon.
Feels good about Legate, Lommy, Rikae, Inzil, Boro, Eomer, Kitanna, and Agan. Says the wolves are Mac, Greenie, Lottie, and Nessa.

#186 - The start of an exchange with Rikae regarding wolfish behavior and easy lynches. Cailin thinks wolves are less likely to actively push bad lynches, feeling instead that it's more sensible to 'go with the flow and come up with a mildly credible explanation afterward'.
Also mentions Nessa looks fairly bad after Ozban's death.

#205 - Continuance. Rikae wonders why a wolf wouldn't be actively seeking reasons to suspect someone, but would make unfounded accusations that were easily attackable. Cailin responds with -

Originally Posted by Cailin

I just think that completely unfounded accusations on Day 1 are actually easier and more convincingly defended.

I'm torn here. Part of me is thinking that this exchange looks innocent for both Rikae and Cailin, but then part of me is thinking Cailin looks like someone who has just realized she's pulling more attention that she would like, and so ends her conversation.
Feels better about Mac for much the same reasons I did, and would rather not lynch Kitanna-hunter.

#220 - Continuance. Rikae persists and Cailin does more peacemaking "can we drop the subject" here.

#221 - Analyzes Wilwa and Nessa. As a conclusion, thinks Wilwa is innocent ("I doubt she is evil") and Nessa she says "has done little to make herself look innocent". I think I've said this before, but I don't really like the way this is worded, as if Nessa being a wolf is a foregone conclusion.

#260 - Uncomfortable with Lottie's vote and doesn't like Wilwa's abstention - a bit of a flip flop from her previous post, where she says she doubts Wilwa is evil.

#273 - Doesn't like what she sees of Lottie, gives several reasons. Would not be averse to lynching Nessa, either. Suspecting Cailin for being against Lottie is hypocritical of me, but I will say I'm not sure I like how she leaves herself open to vote Nessa if the bandwagon swings that way.

#287 - A list of players: Guilty and Innocent. Of interest are the fact that Wilwa and Boro are "guilty", as opposed to how Cailin felt about them earlier, and Valier appears on the "guilty" side for a reason I'm not sure I understand.

Originally Posted by Cailin

Valier - I remember Valier quite well from the distant past. She does not give me a fuzzy feeling as of yet.

I generally take 'fuzzy' to mean 'wolfish', which would make it odd that Valier is there for not being 'fuzzy'. Am I just misreading?

#296 - Votes Lottie.

#346 - Says she had Lommy down as innocent from the start. Will be looking at Skip because she thinks Valier was a suspected Seer.

#375 - Quick and dirty analysis of Valier - says if the wolves thought she was the Seer, Nessa and Rikae look good and Skip looks bad.

#378 - Mentions she went over Lommy as well.

Originally Posted by Cailin

Lommy was almost certainly not a we-are-looking-for-the-Seer kill but a let's-get-her-now-before-she-starts-making-sense kill or something involving Inzil (bluff, double bluff, you all know the drill).

I don't necessarily disagree, but I'm not sure I'd use the words 'almost certainly' in a werewolf game.

#381 - Thanks Inzil for his Elronhubbard analysis (I think?). Agrees, but pushes her suspicion of Skip here, saying that his vote for Elronhubbard looked like an attempt at a bandwagon.

#398 - Another list. Wilwa is under 'others' as Cailin doesn't like any of her posts (which comes as a surprise, considering her early analysis of Wilwa, but Cailin has been consistent regarding Wilwa for a few days now, so I'm unsure). The rest of the list seems to be okay, but I confess I'm still waiting for the skip analysis we were promised.

#402 - Puzzled by skip's list, and puzzled by Nessa's attitude. This post kind of feels like 'posting-for-the-sake-of-posting'.

#421 - Agrees that Inzil and Nessa will continue to be a distraction. Doesn't see any reason to vote Boro. Still suspicious of skip - what I'm not liking is that Cailin continues to be 'suspicious' of skip but makes no real effort to push said suspicion.

#427 - Votes Inzil. Honestly, the reason about Inzil's vote for Boro at the last second is one I agree with - it did look shady.

#431 -

Originally Posted by Cailin

Coin tosses are bad but a throwaway vote for a silent player is not much better really.

Haha. I agree.


Conclusions - Cailin is definitely someone to watch. She's got both good and bad points for her - I don't necessarily see full-blown lupinity here, but she's definitely more suspicious than I thought she was. (Wow, don't I sound wishy washy? )

[Pitchwife]

Ouch. That lynch yesterDay was ein Griff ins Klo, as we say in German (roughly 'grabbed from the loo', in the sense that you get a handful of - well, you know what). Poor Zil, that was a nasty set-up by the wolves.

So far, I'm afraid we've made the wolves' job pretty easy, and our numbers are dwindling rapidly. Our big assets are that our two remaining gifteds are still alive, so there's still hope.

Speaking of Zil, sadly there's not as much to learn from knowing his role as I hoped there would, now I think it over with a clearer mind. OK, we know that the vote that saved Nessa on Day 2 wasn't made by a packmate, but we still don't know whether he was swayed by an innocent or evil Nessa.
But at the moment, I tend to leave Nessa to the Seer. Like Eomer said yesterDay, chances are high they've already dreamed her (I certainly would have if it was me), and if they haven't, I think they should.
(By the way, I think it's quite possible the wolves interpreted that comment as a seer hint from Eomer himself, hence his death.)

As to Rikae's mysterious #467 and the speculations about it - I think I see what she's driving at (or let's say I have a hypothesis), and if I'm right, I'd much rather nobody had mentioned it, least of all said "It certainly seems like something an innocent, possibly gifted, would try rather than a wolf" (skip! Really?).

EDIT: x-ed from #495 down

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Also, re: Agan - if you're 'green' it means I don't plan to vote you - and I wouldn't plan to vote the cobbler in any case.

[Mänwe]

Compelled to respond now

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

#213 - Mentions that he'd like to see more from anyone with three or less posts, which is funny, because this is his first post of the game.

Well I know what role I play in our incarceration. I needed like others have needed from me, "more to go on", therefore I asked them to have a say. I asked it to draw attention to the fact that a suspicious character might lie in these quiet players- knowing I myself could be counted among them.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Won't vote for Boro.

Because that day I didn't consider him a wolf.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Makes a point of saying that she's 'one he has mentioned in his posts' as if he's defending his vote before ever being asked

Because I anticipated being asked and being judged on my vote as has happened to others so far.

~~

In regards to the 'flipflop' comments- my defense of the quiet players was only because a couple of players had in my mind at the time labelled them as useless, and being one of them I felt it just to comment. But on Legate's and Rikae's clarification, I accepted that I had misunderstood their point, as you pointed out, I accepted the clarifications. This was also the case regarding Legate's comments regarding "throwaway" votes, I was just attacking his view point not defending e_d.

So I don't think it much of a flipflop me maintaining that these folk should be the focus of some suspicion.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

...and what does 'it looked rather clear everyone had it in for Inzil before I voted' mean?

At the point I voted, in my mind it seemed clear that Inzil would be the one to go, regardless I would not have voted for him as I said to Legate, I held no suspicion over him. This leads back to Legate's comment about my e_d vote being "throwaway", I felt as if he meant he would have preferred me voting for Inzil or Nessa, the two who had garnered so much attention that day.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Oh, and he immediately backtracks when Elronhubbard herself comments on his vote.

I admit, it was a bit of a backtrack but only in so far as to point out to her I wasn't presuming she didn't read a single post in the game and just voted.

~~

So, I would say i'm not flipflopping. Just defending a certain strategy while drawing attention to it (because it can be successful).

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Mänwe

Compelled to respond now



Well I know what role I play in our incarceration. I needed like others have needed from me, "more to go on", therefore I asked them to have a say. I asked it to draw attention to the fact that a suspicious character might lie in these quiet players- knowing I myself could be counted among them.

So you were drawing attention to the fact that you were drawing attention to the fact that you could be counted as 'suspicious', which is supposed to in fact make you look more innocent? A wolfish tactic I've used myself.

Because I anticipated being asked and being judged on my vote as has happened to others so far.

Regardless of that, it looks to me as if you were looking for a reason to make your vote okay.

~~

Originally Posted by Manwe

In regards to the 'flipflop' comments- my defense of the quiet players was only because a couple of players had in my mind at the time labelled them as useless, and being one of them I felt it just to comment. But on Legate's and Rikae's clarification, I accepted that I had misunderstood their point, as you pointed out, I accepted the clarifications. This was also the case regarding Legate's comments regarding "throwaway" votes, I was just attacking his view point not defending e_d.

So I don't think it much of a flipflop me maintaining that these folk should be the focus of some suspicion.

You don't think going from "quiet players should be looked at and say more", to "quiet players are no more suspicious than loud players", and back again, is a flipflop?

Originally Posted by Manwe

At the point I voted, in my mind it seemed clear that Inzil would be the one to go, regardless I would not have voted for him as I said to Legate, I held no suspicion over him. This leads back to Legate's comment about my e_d vote being "throwaway", I felt as if he meant he would have preferred me voting for Inzil or Nessa, the two who had garnered so much attention that day.

If you held no suspicion over Inzil, the innocent thing to do would have been to try and save him, not throw away your vote where it would do no good to anyone. I fully agree with Legate here - your vote was throwaway.

Originally Posted by Manwe

I admit, it was a bit of a backtrack but only in so far as to point out to her I wasn't presuming she didn't read a single post in the game and just voted.

I'm afraid it looks more as if you're saying "I voted for you but I don't actually find you suspicious".

So, I would say i'm not flipflopping. Just defending a certain strategy while drawing attention to it (because it can be successful).

"Drawing attention" means you want it looked at while you're defending it at the same time. That's, like, the definition of 'flipflopping'.

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Shasta

Brilliant, we should totally do this.

I really want to vote for Manwe. I could vote Boro or Skip, I suppose. Probably not Legate, though.

What the heck is happening here? Is this supposed to be sounding like a joke (like you actually do not intend to vote for those people), or am I just taking the tone wrong? Are you implying that we should not at all talk about who we want to vote for? Because that kind of makes the Day a bit empty, what else are we to talk about other than who we want to vote for? I don't get this exchange, I must be missing something.

[skip spence]

Okay then, will have a look at Greenie, then Mac, and if there's time, Agan.

I suggest that someone also considers a fresh look at Shasta, Legate, Boro and Wilwa. I'm sure I've forgotten about someone too...