Hin Hurin

[Urwen]

I'm starting this for something actually bothered me for a few months now. I re-read The Children of Hurin. And I must say: I'm in horror. Even if the children of Hurin did have fault of the blood, so to say, I must point out that...

THEY AREN'T THEIR FATHER!

Even Morgoth, as twisted as he is, should know this. He was created by Eru. Was he like Eru? No.

Few others he probably knew. Was Maeglin like his Mother? No.

No one is mirror image of their father or mother, not in looks and even lesser in spirit.

So, why? Why did Morgoth curse Hin Hurin, therefore losing one of his chances to learn information of Gondolin location?

But no, he rapidly cursed them (us) to death, therefore losing his chance for one of them (us) to tell him of Gondolin.

Three innocent lives were wasted... and he gained nothing. Except maybe his own twisted pleasure...

He was a fool and a sadist. Nothing more.

There. Got all of my anger out.

[Hookbill the Goomba]

I think it was more of a psychological torture - since Hurin would not yield under personal threats and physical pain, Morgoth, the clever sod that he was, decided to take a more sinister path. Torture Hurin's children and make him watch, helpless.

Also, remember the children of Feanor - they had a sworn oath to fight against Morgoth because of their father and, mostly, followed it to the best of their ability. When someone takes and tortures your family, it must be hard not to harbour ill will towards that person. So, while Morgoth held Hurin, there was always the risk that Turin might raise armies to fight and thwart him, all in the attempt to free his father.
It is, perhaps, a testament to the weakening of Morgoth's power that Turin is, in many ways, successful in his attempts to thwart him, despite the curse. He kills Glaurung, after all, though with perilous consequences - and he does raise a number of armies against Morgoth.

So, yes, Morgoth is a bit of a sick fellow. Torturing Hurin by cursing his family. All in the hopes of getting a bit of information.

[Urwen]

It's obvious where my loyalties lie... Even my username is also name of child of Hurin.

Long live Urwen and her glorious brother and sister! Especially sister.

Nienor.

Turin might have been slightly insane, and deserved to die at one point. But Nienor wasn't. Why did she have to die as well?

Morgoth,

For me and my two siblings, You must stop this madness.

Remember, I'm watching You from Void. I will hold You blameless if You stop this madness. Even though Your plague cost me my life.

Urwen (Lalaith)

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

An interesting theory! So this Morgoth was spiteful, wasteful and wicked, you say?

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

An interesting theory! So this Morgoth was spiteful, wasteful and wicked, you say?

What an outrageous suggestion! Next thing happening will be someone saying he was evil!

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

What an outrageous suggestion! Next thing happening will be someone saying he was evil!

We probably shouldn't be daring as that, now sure we shouldn't? It's soo bad to judge people that easily. Surely there is an explanation, like his experiences as a youth (you know like banning from his family and friends and so on)?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Turin might have been slightly insane, and deserved to die at one point. But Nienor wasn't. Why did she have to die as well?

Did he? Weren't all his unfortunes just because of the curse Morgoth made? Wasn't that the whole point; that everything he tried (but turning to Morgoth) were doomed to fail? Wasn't that the tragic of it all, that he should not bend but fight even if it went from bad to worse? And Nienor, sure, was a victim of the same curse. Neither had a fault of their own, but the curse hanging on them.

And those curses spanning over several generations are a frequent motive in many myths (including the Bible).

Oedipus didn't want to do bad but s**t happened. That's what tragedy is about?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

So, why? Why did Morgoth curse Hin Hurin, therefore losing one of his chances to learn information of Gondolin location?

I think it's quite the opposite. If Morgoth let them live happily, they'd probably succeed in avenging Hurin (which is not part of Morgoth's plan). If he killed them, Hurin would suffer less - what's the point of that? By cursing them, he (potentially) can get Gondolin's location out of Hurin - if he would ask for mercy for his family, or one of the family would give it away "accidentally" (like, for exaple, Turin gave his location away by fighting with Gurthang, so why not try and find Gondolin through him?). If Hurin actually told Morwen and his children where Gondolin is, Morgoth's plan would have succeeded (Morwen wanted to flee to Gondolin, or like I said above, an "accidental" revealing).

[Findegil]

And in the end the plan was much more succesful then Morgoth could have been expected when he devised it: Túrins actions let to the destruction of Nargothrond, Hurins embitterment against anyone let him give up his claim for Dor-Lómin, reveal the location of Gondolin as good as he did know, diminished the realm of Brethil and led indirectly to the destruction of Doriath and to a very long lasting enmity between Elves and Dwarves.

Respectfuly
Findegil

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

If Morgoth let them live happily, they'd probably succeed in avenging Hurin

Like the Fëanorians succeeded in avenging Finwë and retrieving the Silmaril?

Originally Posted by Findegil

And in the end the plan was much more succesful then Morgoth could have been expected when he devised it: Túrins actions let to the destruction of Nargothrond, Hurins embitterment against anyone let him give up his claim for Dor-Lómin, reveal the location of Gondolin as good as he did know, diminished the realm of Brethil and led indirectly to the destruction of Doriath and to a very long lasting enmity between Elves and Dwarves.

Yep. Placing that curse on Húrin's family may well have been the single most effective thing Morgoth did in all the War of the Jewels. Even if he probably couldn't have foreseen just how much havoc it would work, it still was a stroke of genius.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Like the Fëanorians succeeded in avenging Finwë and retrieving the Silmaril?

You absolutely had to...

But consider this: Morgoth was afraid that Turin would evade his curse, such was his power at the time. All of Turin's actions were reversed by the curse that was layed on him by the most powerful ainu - and he almost escaped it. What would happen if there was no curse???

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Like the Fëanorians succeeded in avenging Finwë and retrieving the Silmaril?

Well, they did manage to get 2. At least, for a short moment...

[Urwen]

What would happen if there was no curse???

Three happy, unpoluted lives with chance of continuing the line to this very day.

Really,is that too much to ask for? I still pray that one day, curse would be removed, and on that they, because curse is finished, Lalaith, Turin and Nienor would arise as skeletons and slowly gain meat till they become exactly as they once were. I repeat: is that too much to ask?