WW LXXIX: Fall From Olympus

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by the phantom

I'm not a fan of Sally's plan, and wonder if she simply wanted to know where the Seer was and wanted the Rangers to be occupied protecting the Seer so that she'd be free to kill who she wished at night. Possible Wolf there.

I wonder whether Sallywolf would have been so bold, though. She had to have known it probably wouldn't be that warmly received, and subjected to some scrutiny.

Originally Posted by the phantom

Nog has been different because he's both busy and fabricating. Most likely furry.

I'm quite all right with lynching Nog toDay. Or Tum. Still.

Originally Posted by the phantom

Lalaith is... Lalaith. Someone said earlier she's either innocent or a very smooth WW. Well- yeah. I've been a WW with her before. She's very smooth. I wouldn't try her first, but at the end as a desperate shot, I'd try her.

I know she can be a highly effective wolf who doesn't tend to attract suspicion, but I'm not getting much in the way of furry vibes from her at the moment.

x/d with Greenie and Nienna

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Inzil

I'm quite all right with lynching Nog toDay. Or Tum. Still.

I might consider Nog after all, though he's absent which makes me feel kind of bad about it. And I'm not all that convinced about his furriness - he has certainly done stuff that points to that direction, but he has also done stuff that points to the exact opposite. So I don't know.

As for autume - I still think the numerous wolvish parts of her behaviour might be due to some misunderstanding concerning the nature of the game. She has made it clear, many times in different situations, that her main goal is to not look wolvish (as opposed to finding wolves). I can sort of understand that, I remember subconsciously thinking that way myself as a new player (which might be partly due to the fact that I played my two first games as a wolf and the habit kind of stuck, though). Now I don't know autume's WW history at all, I've never played with her, so I can't compare the two cases. But the thing is, I'm not convinced a furry autume would be so open about this. But then again, all the inconsistencies in her behaviour (like, about Mac and Nog for example, I think Inzil has covered these pretty effectively) would point more to the furry side... Heck if I know, now I just caused myself a headache. Clearly I shouldn't get that understanding about her motives, because if I only apply cold logic I'm leaning towards thinking she's a wolf. But I also have this nagging feeling that she'll be toDay's easy bandwagon everyone can jump on without racking their brains too much.


EDIT: x-ed with Wilwa and Shasta (to the latter: *hug*)

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Greenie

Clearly I shouldn't get that understanding about her motives, because if I only apply cold logic I'm leaning towards thinking she's a wolf. But I also have this nagging feeling that she'll be toDay's easy bandwagon everyone can jump on without racking their brains too much.

This very clearly sums up how I feel about her. I get why she looks so bad, but it could so easily become a repeat of BG and Eonwe.

Originally Posted by Inzil

I wonder whether Sallywolf would have been so bold, though. She had to have known it probably wouldn't be that warmly received, and subjected to some scrutiny.

Even though you could potentially say that she knew we'd react that way and said it all to make herself look innocent, I do agree, I think it makes her look rather good.

Originally Posted by Greenie

Could someone please do something blatantly wolvish? Like, now?

*growls like the Wereduckling*

[Macalaure]

A list to sort my thoughts before I go analyzin'.

Pretty confident is innocent
Greenie (While my wolf-spotting is shaky, my innocent-spotting is usually good, which is why I really don't like to only have one person in here.)

Probably innocent, but there's that nagging feeling
Lalaith (As phantom said, smooth. I remember Lalaith-wolf to be more nervous. Really not worried at the moment.)
Rikae (The mistress of the nagging feeling.)
Nog (He's wrong with such persistence that I doubt he's evil. As a wolf, once you realize that your approach is irritating everyone, you alter your ways.)
phantom (My problem is, that I've never played against a phantom wolf. I don't see anything suspicious, but I'm not sure what to look for.)
Sally (Seer plan too risky for a wolf. Possible lover, though.)

Not really sure where to put
Loslote (While I must've missed what tp saw yesterDay, her defense did look innocent.)
Nerwen (I don't see anything suspicious, but every time I put Nerwen higher than this, I regret it.)
Autume (Not sure what the stuff around her is about, but I'll trust people that there's something. I'll see for myself eventually.)

Varying degrees of submarinity
Kath (Really quiet. Can't tell anything.)
Mira (Really quiet. Can't tell anything.)
Nienna (Picking up some pace at last. Will be interesting to see.)
Folwren (Innocent-looking, but there's so to go at that she could easily be a quiet wolf.)
Shasta (He could go in the category above, too. Really uncertain here.)

Uneasiness that has to be checked out
Wilwa (Can't tell what it is, but I'll find out.)
Inzil (same)

I was hoping that I forgot a suspicious one somewhere. This list contains too many question marks for Day3.

[satansaloser2005]

My top suspects are as follows....


Nog: He's been too twitchy and weird (without quoting any posts because there's so many to choose from) and generally not innocent Nog-ish.

Tum: Her "innocent lynches are bad, but I like them" attitude, among other things, makes me think she's a floundering wolf cub or possibly an evil lover. (Actually I really like that theory. I hope to look at it more closely after dinner.)

Foley: I'll have to find the post again, but at some point she tells us not to lynch phantom because she thinks he's possibly a good gifted. I don't see why a goodie would do that, unless Phantom was under extreme pressure to be lynched (which he wasn't at the time). Other than that standing out, though, I'm unsure of her, so I'll try to look at her later tonight as well.

Lottie: She makes no sense, like at all. Maybe Tum's lover? *twitches* I should not have these kind of thoughts as I'm leaving. It's just not fair. *harrumphs*


Leaving for said dinner now, so I'll be back when I can and will try to post more.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Sally

Lottie: She makes no sense, like at all. Maybe Tum's lover? *twitches*

I doubt that. It would be really really bold for a lover to so persistently push for the lynch of her partner. Needlessly bold, I'd say, for I see no particular gain. Sure, some suspicion every now and then is not a bad tactic at all, but to take it to such a level would be foolish.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

I doubt that. It would be really really bold for a lover to so persistently push for the lynch of her partner. Needlessly bold, I'd say, for I see no particular gain. Sure, some suspicion every now and then is not a bad tactic at all, but to take it to such a level would be foolish.

Oh. My. Goodness. I did not mean what I said there. *headdesks* I'd been thinking earlier that Tum could be an evil lover, but putting her with Lottie makes no sense. Please excuse my complete lapse of brain cells.

I'll decide what I actually meant when I return, hopefully soon.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Wilwa

*growls like the Wereduckling*

Aww! But I can't push for the lynch of anyone half so cute!

Whoa. It's late, and I have a relatively early start tomorrow - in other words, I need to vote and be off to bed. That is very sad since I fear whatever I decide turns out to be the exact wrong thing to do. Oh well, I suppose I'll just have to live with that. It's between Mac, Nog and autume for me toDay I think, and of those two I think I'll go for

++ Nogrod

For a couple of reasons.
1) He has acted unreasonably in ways that point to furriness.
2) His death would shed light on other people's roles (I'm thinking Mac, Lottie, Sally, and possibly Nerwen and pantom too).
3) My logic is suspicious of Mac and autume while my gut isn't, with Nog both are suspicious of him albeit to a slightly lesser extent. Still, he's my best bet toDay.

Good night!

[Lalaith]

This game is a right old bugger. You look at players and posts, you spot something that might be patterns and alliances, and then you think, but there are so many innocent alliances too, it might not be a sign of evil. You remember how easy it is to mistake a gifted for a wolf, and then remember that every blessed person is a gifted. Oh lawks.

Ok, list time again.
Phantom – full of beans today, and getting *very* cocky. Trusts Mac. Believes Lottie is innocent. His suspect list is interesting but I don’t get what he says about why he's putting Kath at the top of it...I agree she can be a lethal quiet wolf but if that’s what he means he should say so.

Nog I’ve already harped on about my concerns here. I would probably vote for him on the strength of that comment of his, (given my lack of solid suspects) were it not for the fact he is not here to explain himself and it seems unsporting.

Tum – I’ve already given my opinion on her earlier. My reservations about voting for her are similar to those voiced by Greenie and Wilwa.

Loslote – that great long analysis. It seems to be trying to prove that Tum agrees with what everybody else says...and the impression it gives me is that it could be the kind of analysis a wolf might do on someone the pack had decided might make a good lynch for the Day... something non-committal that others could pick over...she is another possible vote for me today but that in itself annoys me because I think it so unlikely that she and Nogrod are *both* wolves.

Nerwen is out to get Nogrod today. Well fair enough, there’s enough rope to hang him, but I’m surprised she hasn’t picked up on my point which does look quite bad for him.

Mac – my problem with him remains his callous attitude to Nerwen yesterday. Too callous for an innocent, arguably....but Today he has once more been generally sensible and incisive.

Sally – I think that despite flaws her Hestia plan was inspired from a genuine desire to help; not the sort of thing a wolf would come up with I think. I do see Phantom's point about tying up the Rangers but still, if you were a wolf, why would you encourage the survival of a Seer?

Greenie – again trying to be fair and even-handed. Her suspicions and also her reservations about Tum are more or less the same as mine.

Wilwa – not as incisive or detailed as Greenie as yet today but the same sense of trying to play fair which looks good in my book.

Nienna – as so many have said, giving an impression of ‘lying low’. However, she does do a thorough analysis of Rikae and finds her consistent and logical. I personally look at Rikae and see chutzpah and erratic brilliance, but ok, if you say so...

Rikae – as I said yesterday, I never can see past the chutzpah with her so I’ll leave that to others.

Zil – still feels ok - has opinions, not afraid to express them, and what he is saying seems to make sense to me.

Shasta – very brief, not enough to go on.

Not posted yet today? (correct me if I’m wrong)
Kath, Mira, Folwren. (Btw - Where IS Kath? I’m on the same time zone as her and it’s bedtime...tsk...dirty stop-out...)
Have I left anyone out? I need to decide, as I need to go to bed soon...

[the phantom]

I still don't get why people (Mac, Wilwa, Inzil, maybe others) think Sally's plan makes her look innocent. Let me ask you- what's the NUMBER ONE thing on the minds of the WWs after last night? The pair of Rangers in the village.

So I can guarantee you that the WWs, the moment they started this day, were thinking of ways to avoid a repeat of last night. The best way to do that? Assign the Rangers to protect a particular person. It's so Wolfish.

And I don't like her list either. And I don't like the fact that her plan involves waiting a day to lynch Nog. A possible theory- coming into the day he may have been written off by his partners perhaps as a lost cause? But they figure if they can hold onto him for one extra day and have a wrong lynch today then it won't be so bad to throw him under the bus? I just don't like it at all. The whole thing smells fishy.

[Rikae]

Ok, now Mac is making me uneasy. All that stuff in the post he just made, plus similar stuff in an earlier post toDay (if anyone doesn't know what I mean, just read his post again) can't possibly be well intentioned or sincere. If what it suggests were true, there wouldn't be a good reason for him to do it; it seems instead like an attempt to tie up the rangers or prepare for a false reveal. Very, very fishy.

EDIT: X'd with everyone since Mac.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Rikae

it seems instead like an attempt to tie up the rangers or prepare for a false reveal.

Not sure what you're seeing, but rest assured that there are no false reveals intended. In fact, there are no reveals intended at all anytime soon, so I'm really kind of puzzled here. Not that there would be anything to reveal anyway. Dare to be plainer?

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Not sure what you're seeing, but rest assured that there are no false reveals intended. In fact, there are no reveals intended at all anytime soon, so I'm really kind of puzzled here. Not that there would be anything to reveal anyway. Dare to be plainer?

All the talk of checking people and finding out about people, of course. You don't expect me to believe your over-the-top excessive seer hints weren't intentional at all, do you?

And while I'm accusing people, I'd like to mention - what is all this balderdash from various quarters about an autume lynch being a repeat of the last two lynches? At this point we have much more to go on, and as far as I'm concerned, a Tum lynch would be the only one of the three that has much logic behind it at all. Just because you see players as somehow similar doesn't mean their roles or the cases for their guilt are also identical. It's a really flimsy defense, and if Tum does turn out to be evil, I will be very wary of those who used it.

EDIT: X'd with Nienna

[the phantom]

On my way out the door. I'll be back for the final 2-3 hours.

[Macalaure]

I meant that I was going to analyse them.

[autume98]

Originally Posted by Rikae

And while I'm accusing people, I'd like to mention - what is all this balderdash from various quarters about an autume lynch being a repeat of the last two lynches? At this point we have much more to go on, and as far as I'm concerned, a Tum lynch would be the only one of the three that has much logic behind it at all. Just because you see players as somehow similar doesn't mean their roles or the cases for their guilt are also identical. It's a really flimsy defense, and if Tum does turn out to be evil, I will be very wary of those who used it.

So where do you stand on wanting me to get lynched and why?

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Rikae

And while I'm accusing people, I'd like to mention - what is all this balderdash from various quarters about an autume lynch being a repeat of the last two lynches? At this point we have much more to go on, and as far as I'm concerned, a Tum lynch would be the only one of the three that has much logic behind it at all. Just because you see players as somehow similar doesn't mean their roles or the cases for their guilt are also identical. It's a really flimsy defense, and if Tum does turn out to be evil, I will be very wary of those who used it.

THIS.

Also, I'm back, but spending time with my auntie.

[Lalaith]

Callous? I definitely did not mean to act that way. I'm not sure what you mean, in fact, and it would be great if you would specifiy what exactly in my behavior was callous. If I appeared that way, I do sincerely apologise.

Sorry I actually meant Nienna, when you called her "an easy victim."

Anyway bedtime and thus voting time. It crossed my mind - is there a chance Nogrod and Tum could be wolves together? I haven't got time to go back through the whole thread to check now. And I still have reservations about voting for either of them which I have already voiced.
That leaves me with Loslote as the only one I have any kind of case against. I do see there is an apparent illogicality of suspecting Nogrod and then voting for the same person as he does - but what I do think either Nogrod OR Loslote is most likely a wolf.
++ Loslote

Hmmm...If we don't get a wolf today, and if I am spared, I think I might change tack toMorrow and start shooting randomly at submarines.