WW LXXIX: Fall From Olympus

[wilwarin538]

Ok. I'm here, and have spent the last 30 minutes reading. And after the initial frustration and confusion, I think I've come to understand everything *sigh*. So my thoughts.

About the BoroSeer: I don't want to put any stock at all into anything he said, because he could be False. Yeah, he could be legit, but he just as easily might not be and I don't want to run after any hint of anything that could be wrong. Besides, I don't see any real hints about anyone's role except maybe the Mira one, but that would seem to be towards a positive role not a Wolf anyway. Maybe if at some point it becomes clear he *was* the real one, maybe than we can go back and see something useful.

About why BoroSeer died: could be a number of reasons. Maybe the Wolves saw the seer hints in his first post (the ones Phantom pointed out about the seerish words). Maybe they saw the hunter hints and figured the smaller the village was, the more dangerous the hunter is, so they wanted to get rid of him early. Or maybe they just thought he was a useful player and it was a good idea to get rid of him.


Now some comments on a few things:

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Don't they teach little seers in elementary school not to make jokes about seers in their first post? Now Boro is dead.

I had a look at his posts. I agree with phantom that Boro probably didn't try to hint us his alignment. (Unless he dreamt of him, found him a non-wolf, and fooled around with him a little to try to guess whether the role he dreamt of was correct.) His hint to Keeper is strange. There's a ton of things he could have thought she was and I don't understand how he got to suspect any of them. I don't think he tried to hint an Eonwe-wolf to us. Other than the -4-comment he only mentioned him once, telling us that we're talking about him enough. Now, if I knew the identity of a wolf, that's not what I'd tell people to do.

First line made me giggle, and I pretty much agree with the rest. As a side note, I don't get the supposed Hades hints coming from Mac, they seem like a bit of stretch.

Originally Posted by Eönwë

So, are you saying that as a wolf you'd rather kill the seer than leave one of your own to get killed so early on?

Because Boro basically voted for me for no reason, so obviously if the wolves killed him it would point straight to me. Wouldn't that be more than a little risky?

Uh, a) yes and b) a manageable amount of risk. It's better for the Wolves to let one of their own go, then to let the Seer live long enough to reveal the rest of them. And if you were a wolf and he hinted about you, and there was any reason to think him the seer, of course the wolves would want him dead. Wolves don't want to keep the seer alive, and if it points towards one of their own, that's something they have to risk. I really don't like your reasoning here.

Originally Posted by the phantom

On the subject of Steve- I said yesterday I didn't think he looked like Dionysus and I stick by that, so if Boro was the false Seer and dreamed of Steve then I believe he is innocent, as it's unlikely the false dream yielded the correct role. If Boro was the real Seer and dreamed Steve then I was at least right about him not being Dionysus, but obviously we should lynch him for Wolfdom. Bleh. Which is more likely?

Just the fact that the second is even a bit likely should be enough for us to consider lynching him. Mixed with the fact that even if he isn't a wolf, he could still be Dyonisis. I think it would just clear a lot of things up either way.

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Now, does this mean that there is a Cobbler, or is it a 'just in case' for this:

There isn't one. Glirdy must have considered it and then forgot to take that out of the Mytho's role discription.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I have seen no argument why we should not take Nerwen's possible hint seriously. It was very early (first post) and she could have relied all the people would banter like they always do, so her little one would drown in the sea of God-names thrown around but her lover might pick it: so little danger, possible rewards - but alas! that didn't happen! It soon emerged that people were quite careful not using the banter-mode - and the whole hint-thing became a big issue.

I was inclined to think it was just banter, but this actually really does make sense. It does seem almost too obvious for her to throw out the name of her own role like that, but if she assumed their would be a lot of banter then it wouldn't have seemed so crazy. I don't know, I'm on the fence about that one, cause otherwise Nerwen doesn't seem all too bad to me. But I do agree that it is very possible.

About the Mytho: not too much we can do about it, cause I don't *think* Glirdy was planning to hint at what the Mytho may have chosen (could be wrong though). Maybe just watch to see if anyone's behaviour takes a major shift? I dunno.

Uhm. I think that's all I have for now. I really need food, but then after that I should be around a lot. (may even be awake enough to stay up later than usual though probably not all the way til DL).

x'd with Nerwen and Nog

[Lalaith]

A lot of rowing going on, some of which is kind of hard to follow.
Well, I need to make up my mind soon as it is bedtime over here.
So first,....Our Big Beasts. I am actually not inclined to vote for any of these at present. Probably they are just fighting for the hell of it and most of them innocent anyway. Also I believe that the wolves and gifteds will sort out the high profile players – they will surely kill/dream of them at night leaving us with fewer suspects. My thoughts on them anyway…
Rikae…she does love a scrap, guilty or innocent she will never let things lie. I have never been able to tell the difference between a good or bad Rikae and this time is no different.
Nog – lots of talk and noise. Quite a lot of it makes sense but some of it is a bit more bonkers than usual. Why? Could be any number of reasons.
Phantom – definitely touchier than usual but he hasn’t played for a long time.

Next – some of the others who are coming under suspicion/attracting attention today
Mac – now I may be rusty but I don’t get where all this Mac suspicion is coming from. It could be because I was thinking along the same lines about Boro as he was, but he seems quite sensible to me.
Eonwe – now there is more cause for concern here. I agree Boro’s words are open to interpretation. But Eonwe also did something rather unhelpful today which might just have been careless but still…with not much to go on I know but with an early vote needed from me, he is a likely candidate.
Tum – Again, someone who may get my vote. Not happy about her(?) at all. Yesterday she seemed ‘off’, she was arguably the dodgiest of the BG votes and Zil’s case against her today was pretty good.
Nerwen – The Hades thing – well, maybe. If she’s Hades herself, she’s very bold. If she’s Persephone, all she would have needed to do is watch and read, so there would have been no need for such rashness. She’s definitely active and ready to get involved in all the rows.
And the rest…
Nienna – Now I didn’t much like her post today. She covered just a few players, only to say that she didn’t have a feel for half of them. Seemed overly desultory and posting-for-the-sake-of-it, although she might have just been RL busy.
Mira/Keeper – the whole Boro interchange yesterday was weird and I am not happy about her in general.
Shasta – comes, makes a few reasonably sensible statements and goes off again.
Folwren, see above, much like Shasta. Could be anything. I know some of you have said the same about me so it’s only fair to reserve judgment.
Lottie – I don’t know, I thought she seemed thoughtful yesterday but odd today. Reserving judgment
Zil – I liked the case he made against Tum, and he seemed to be unhappy about Nienna’s post as was I. as with Mac, I tend to trust those who seem to be thinking the way I do, so…
Sally – like I said, I thought she was acting oddly yesterday but I feel better about her today
Greenie – active, thoughtful and clearly trying to be fair – so I trust her for now
Wilwa – not seen her around as much today but seemed helpful yesterday so I’m quite at ease with her
Kath – her voice was ever soft, gentle and low, an excellent thing in woman, I suppose, but not necessarily during WW. Come on girl, check in and lets hear what you’ve got to say…

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Yes. And it is interesting that from all the 20 characters she picked up one of the two God-wolfs who had to really desperately contact their lover as early as possible. To be fair, Hades as a random-choice is not too bad (look at the carnage that is coming!). But Zeus would be the most understandable (as the King of the Gods), and also Ares (there's a war brewing on here!), Pallas Athene (We need your wisdom to solve this!), Apollo (We need your keen eyes to help us!), Eros (Oh, let love prevail insterad of anger!)... you see it?

Ok, Nog, I see what you're missing here; however, I don't seem to be able to explain it without implied swearing.
Basically, there is the expression "what the ____?", where _____ is the (negative) Christian underworld - in other words, Hades. So really, any other name would have made far less sense.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Ok, Nog, I see what you're missing here; however, I don't seem to be able to explain it without implied swearing.
Basically, there is the expression "what the ____?", where _____ is the (negative) Christian underworld - in other words, Hades. So really, any other name would have made far less sense.

Exactly. I was referring to Hades the place. I'm sure I explained that yesterDay.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Basically, there is the expression "what the ____?", where _____ is the (negative) Christian underworld - in other words, Hades. So really, any other name would have made far less sense.

I must confess, I don't understand that at all! I mean what the _____? Yeah, I know what is Hades, the place, but what the ____ it has to do with anything here?

But now I need to know. Really.

Do you mean there is something like a curse or saying that is widely-used in English-speaking countries (at least both Australia and the US.) that is used in a situation anywhere similar or comparable to the one we faced as players in the beginning of the game? And what is that reference to a "negative(???) non-christian underwolrd"? Why didn't you just say Hades, the dwelling of the dead, if that is what you mean? So did you just mean "Where the F? Where the F is Hades?" or did that christianity stuff have some other meaning in there? Sorry, communication's hard sometimes.

When more than the number of wolves and the wannabes (cursed & mytho) tell me that is a usual thing to say when in trouble, I'll promise to reconsider (a wise wolf would use that chance to be sure, it would even make it a better hint, less obvious - but would also explain easier the choice of Hades there).

And anyway, if that is a common curse, why didn't someone just say that a long time ago? It would have made it a different case.

BLah. Could you stop coming up with things concerning this speacial case? I'd like to do something else - and get to bed!

[Eönwë]

Ok, well my mind's stopped functioning, so I'll try to wake up early and get my Nog-post and vote in before the DL. And now I won't try to write anything Ancient-Greece themed or mention any Greek gods because otherwise it'll be misinterpreted as a hint of some sort.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Do you mean there is something like a curse or saying that is widely-used in English-speaking countries (at least both Australia and the US.) that is used in a situation anywhere similar or comparable to the one we faced as players in the beginning of the game? And what is that reference to a "negative(???) non-christian underwolrd"? Why didn't you just say Hades, the dwelling of the dead, if that is what you mean? So did you just mean "Where the F? Where the F is Hades?" or did that christianity stuff have some other meaning in there? Sorry, communication's hard sometimes.

*headdesk*
So that's what it's all about. You really didn't know.

EDIT:X'd since last post.

[satansaloser2005]

Is it possible for us to stop talking about curses? Please?

Of course, talking about curseds is fine.


I'm here for a bit and will poke together a list as I snack on my tasty pasta. Back soon.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Is it possible for us to stop talking about curses? Please?

Well, I hope so.

Here's something to talk about, which I raised earlier: Blind Guardian did, I think, drop a hint about her role. I never picked it up until after she died, but it's possible Hephaestus was looking a bit harder.

It may be worth seeing if anyone seemed to be particularly protective of her. (Or to be hinting back, perhaps– though look where searching for hints has got us...)

[autume98]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Well, I hope so.

Here's something to talk about, which I raised earlier: Blind Guardian did, I think, drop a hint about her role. I never picked it up until after she died, but it's possible Hephaestus was looking a bit harder.

It may be worth seeing if anyone seemed to be particularly protective of her. (Or to be hinting back, perhaps– though look where searching for hints has got us...)

It looks like she did give a hint here:

Originally Posted by Blind Guardian

I've drinken and I'm not 16. It's where I get my good looks from. Though I'm not French. Though I wouldn't drink that much, true. Dionyses doesn't have a lover. So is Eönwë hinting that he's Dionyses?

Not sure if anyone picked up on the hint. I'll will have to go back and see.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Here's something to talk about, which I raised earlier: Blind Guardian did, I think, drop a hint about her role. I never picked it up until after she died, but it's possible Hephaestus was looking a bit harder.

It may be worth seeing if anyone seemed to be particularly protective of her. (Or to be hinting back, perhaps– though look where searching for hints has got us...)

Well, when I said that Mac could be Hephaestus, did I mention that he said this?

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Raise your hand if you'd like to lynch somebody suspicious instead of BG.

Yes, she might not be very helpful, but that's not a good reason to lynch and you know that.

And then voted you.

[autume98]

Just want to make sure everyone saw my post. I noticed a couple of people had missed it. Look here to see my post explaining my vote.

[Kath]

Warning: stream of consciousness.

The major Nog/Greenie/phantom argument is revolving around the idea of hints, yes? Basically, that hints were seen in Boro's posts, and it turned out that rather than the Hades hint that everyone leaped on being an actual hint, it was those relating to being the Seer that was in fact real. I'm not quite sure where I'm going here. It just feels like a lot of people are saying 'well look Boro's hints turned out to be truthful ... therfore Nerwen's and Mac's potential hints must also be right'. But Nerwen mentioned Hades not anything else (that I noticed - though I didn't notice Boro's Seer hints so that's not saying much) - and Boro's Hades 'hint' turned out to be nothing. I'm confusing myself. It just feels slightly hypocritical I think. If you'd been right about Boro hinting to be Hades you can't be right about Boro hinting to be the Seer and vice versa - he wasn't both. Also, whatever hints Boro may or may not have left, and whether he was the true Seer or the false Seer - it is likely we'll need more than the evidence from one Day to be able to read a huge amount into them.

In short (ish) - those who are focused so heavily on these hints seem suspicious to me. I know, I know that right now these are interesting and discussion-producing ... but the focus is causing these major ructions that are a beautiful distraction whether for the current loudmouths or for those who are quietly letting them get on with it.

Couple of questions probably aimed at the Mod - do we get any information in the narrations as to what has happened with the Mythomaniac? I think I saw that asked earlier but didn't see an answer. Will we know if we've not got more wolves? Also, there were questions about the Cobbler - is there a Cobbler as a separate role or is the Cursed pretty much a Cobbler?

Then there was the Eonwe/Dionysus business. I don't really know Eonwe's playing style. There are players who might well announce their role (within the boundaries of the game) Day 1 and sit back to watch everyone argue it out. Fea comes to mind. Is Eonwe that bold a player?

I'm glad those who were a bit quieter yesterDay seem to be back toDay and getting involved. In this game I don't think so many quiet players are likely to be lynched - Blind Guardian was probably a bit of an exception and unlucky to be playing in a game with so many veterans who just wanted to get on with it. That said, and despite my appalling hypocrisy here given I'm going to manage one post toDay, I hope the attention keeps up. Like I said, with loudmouths arguing it's too easy for quieter players to slip under the radar ... not actually that we have that many.

Anyway. Bedtime for me, especially as I'm starting to ramble. So from what I've said above my main suspects have to be Nogrod, phantom and Greenie. Nog and phantom have both reacted over-zealously, bringing emotion and sarcasm into play much more than Greenie which sort of logically makes me suspect them more. Nog I have seen act this way before. phantom I don't recall having done it. phantom is generally calm (as I recall) when suspected as a wolf, but I wouldn't put it past him to put on a show to negate that. Nog's 'do you read what other's post thing' I found quite odd and actually quite rude, and despite having seen him overreact in this way before this does seem to have blown up over two different ways of looking at a point - a dichotomy he has accepted in the past.

So:

++NOGROD

And my apologies for being missing toDay. I've been in my house a grand total of an hour and a half toDay!

[Folwren]

Hey....guys? I know I don't have much weight here or anything, and I know I haven't added much to the conversation, but...I don't think that we should lynch Nogrod tonight. I know I'm sticking my neck out to defend him, but I kind of think that he shouldn't be killed just yet.

But my opinion is even stronger concerning The Phantom. Through what I've read today, it seems to me that he's pretty innocent, if not gifted (in a good way).

I don't know about anyone else. My reading over today's posts has been very fast, very poor, and not very indepth. I don't have many ideas on anyone else, other than Phantom being innocent. So, later this evening I'll try to read things better and maybe post something more informative, and maybe vote.

-- Foley

[Lalaith]

Oh curse these early votes. So difficult to decide.
Well as things stand it is between Eonwe and autume for me. Now Tum hasn't even been on today to defend herself, so it seems harsh to vote for her...I'm going to go for Eonwe. As I said before, there's a reasonable Boro-based case against him and the something else too.

++ Eonwe

[the phantom]

Nog- you've never heard English speaking people exclaim "What the h---?!" before? Yes, it's quite common, and seeing as Hades is an oft used substitute for h--- the expression is quite understandable.

Anyway, need to catch up on what's been happening...

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Nog- you've never heard English speaking people exclaim "What the h---?!" before? Yes, it's quite common, and seeing as Hades is an oft used substitute for h--- the expression is quite understandable.

So it was not the other four-letter curse that starts with F but the one which starts with H (and thence the christianity-stuff)? Okay. Now I see. I'm clearly too used to that f-word or at least seeing it being censored. Then it makes perfect sense he-l and hades are interchangeable enough to explain the choice.

But like I said, it actually makes it so much better as hints go... but enough of it now.

It's so healthy to find oneself a total dummy every once in a while.

Although I must add that that kind of humour where one changes words in a sentence or syllables in a word is pretty hard to a non-native because the associations don't bring up naturally but need to be specifically searched for - and it thus requires you to need to know now is time to search for one.


Well, I see enough vultures gathering around already on another front so let's end this for the moment. I'd like to have a look on a few things before getting to sleep - and they must be fed, mustn't they?