ecthelion vs glorfindel

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Andsigil

Well, it's been argued that Glorfindel merited a resurrection and returned to Middle Earth for his deeds.

That was more for his selfless death and saving a marquee character who will eventually save the Eldar and Edain, as well as beget other marquee characters. But strictly speaking, Echthelion taking on Gothmog solo was probably a more heavyweight bout.

[Andsigil]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

That was more for his selfless death and saving a marquee character who will eventually save the Eldar and Edain, as well as beget other marquee characters. But strictly speaking, Echthelion taking on Gothmog solo was probably a more heavyweight bout.

Have you ever seen the Tom Loback illustration of that fight? I like his Tolkien artwork- it has something of a stained-glass look to it.

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

Re-embodiment was not uncommon among Elves. Ecthelion almost certainly enjoyed this service of the Valar as well, although he may have had to wait until the ban on the Noldor's return to Aman was lifted.

Why did Ecthelion have to wait? Wasn't he as valiant and selfless that day as Glorfindel? If I remember correctly, he slew three Balrogs in addition to Gothmog. So he should also be highly qualified for immediate resurrection, like Glorfindel.

[obloquy]

Originally Posted by Gorthaur the Cruel

Why did Ecthelion have to wait? Wasn't he as valiant and selfless that day as Glorfindel? If I remember correctly, he slew three Balrogs in addition to Gothmog. So he should also be highly qualified for immediate resurrection, like Glorfindel.

I said he may have had to wait, because Tolkien does not mention Ecthelion's receiving the same treatment.

[Galin]

I tend to doubt the number of slain Balrogs -- according to The Book of Lost Tales version of The Fall of Gondolin -- was going to hold for the later Quenta Silmarillion.


Unfortunately Tolkien abandoned the 1951 updated (long prose) version of this tale... although at that point Balrogs still existed in great numbers at least (externally speaking). Later Tolkien imagined that, at most, seven ever existed; though in any case he did not revise every relevant passage that implied large numbers of Balrogs...

... just to keep us guessing

[obloquy]

Originally Posted by Galin

I tend to doubt the number of slain Balrogs -- according to The Book of Lost Tales version of The Fall of Gondolin -- was going to hold for the later Quenta Silmarillion.


Unfortunately Tolkien abandoned the 1951 updated (long prose) version of this tale... although at that point Balrogs still existed in great numbers at least (externally speaking). Later Tolkien imagined that, at most, seven ever existed; though in any case he did not revise every relevant passage that implied large numbers of Balrogs...

... just to keep us guessing

Yes, and I think it is best not to ignore the suggestion of only three Balrogs existing. That Tolkien says "three or at most seven" implies that he considered only three to be truly necessary (likely Gothmog, Glorfindel's Bane, and Durin's Bane), and seven to be the upper limit. I suspect Tolkien's ambivalence has to do with the question of how much revision would be necessary to implement the change.

[mark12_30]

I wonder: would he have come up with some sort of "Lesser Balrog" order, and left Seven Balrog Captains in command over numerous, lesser Ensign Balrogs; perhaps renaming the Ensign Balrogs to something less impressive.

Perhaps it reminds me of the spiders. There is Ungoliant; and Shelob; and there are Lesser Spiders, that make the southern borders of Dorthonion a nasty place, and Mirkwood too, later.

Of course this is all rambling and unsupported whimsy on my part.