Butturbur's Worst Customers

[CSteefel]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

It seems clear there were various mailicious things roaming around the North; at least Trolls, maybe as far west as Weathertop, possibly some wolves, etc. But Aragorn's statement seems to indicate an organised settlement of evil beings of some sort, when he talks about then being 'a day's march' from Bree.

Yes, and I agree that I can find no other specific reference to what these enemies would be... To the south, there are ruffians to be sure, but as stated, more than a day's march. To the east it seems to be largely deserted, unless you approach the Troll Fells, many day's march. To the west are the Elves. So this really only leaves the North, although there are more references to the Rangers guarding the southern side than to the north, where they only go occasionally...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

That's an interesting topic. Anyway, as to what's been said, I think you can rule the North out: Deadman's Dike had bad reputation only because of the Breelanders' superstition. Gandalf told Butterbur that Rangers are regularly visiting the place, and he said it in a way that did imply rather a pilgrimage to a place bringing sweet memories of forgotten realm than to some haunted dungeon.

The words about "freezing one's heart", to me, imply something more than just "regular" brigands or wild animals (wolves etc.), but it could be Trolls or something like that, although I really doubt that they will be one day's march from Bree.

Actually, there is this thing during Barliman's discussion with Gandalf when the Hobbits are returning home. Barliman says:

For there's been worse than robbers about. Wolves were howling round the fences last winter. And there's dark shapes in the woods, dreadful things that it makes the blood run cold to think of. It's been very disturbing, if you understand me.

So basically, I think this quite corresponds with the above. Are the "dreadful things" the thing that Gandalf mentioned earlier at the Council? Then they are not robbers nor wolves - Barliman mentions those two separately from the "dark shapes". So is that what we are looking for? Somehow, it does not seem fit to me that the Barrow-Wights would awaken and roam free in the woods - they always seemed to me more like bound to one place. And somehow I do not believe that just the Rangers would stop them. But would they? Who knows.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

I don't think you're supposed to fully know what the threats to Bree were. As JRRT says in one of his Letters (something like), it's the hint of barely glimpsed vistas that give verisimilitude to a tale and a created world. Even PJ's movie uses this concept to good effect in the beginning of FOTR when Bilbo says:

Middle-earth being, after all, full of strange creatures beyond count

and then immediately moving on to discuss prosaic hobbit life.

Not unlike some other Tolkien throwaway comments, like the one about hobbits wandering off to have adventures and (I think) some never returning.

And is it that hard to freeze Butterbur's heart? Regular brigands might do so, but I'm thinking more of something like the giant insects, etc. that unsettled Thorin and Co. in Mirkwood.

[CSteefel]

I myself did not necessarily interpret Gandalf's report of the Rangers visiting Deadmen's Dike as anything having to do with sweet memories. To me it seemed to be another part of their regular tour for the purposes of protecting Eriador. Admittedly probably not as sinister as Barliman's idea of it, which is presumably an old wife's tale, but perhaps as dangerous as other regions.

In the end, you have to go with the reports of where the Rangers were found. Somewhere close to Rivendell, one assumes, since Halbarad got the message that Aragorn needed help. Their presence close to Weathertop is also noted, since they left the firewood that the Aragorn and the hobbits found. And down near Tharbad, since they were driven off by the Nazgul. Bombadil certainly knows about them, since he talks of the

forgotten kings walking in loneliness, guarding from evil things folk that are heedless

Given their mission, one assumes that where they are found is somewhere close to where the evil things, whatever they are, would invade...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I assume the Rangers were simply wandering all over the former Arnor, and I see no reason to change this idea. Anyway, the thing about Fornost seems to me that it is something different. I mean: there is nobody to protect there, but it's the place of "pilgrimage" to remember the forgotten times when Arnor was still a powerful kingdom. Just like Weathertop. The Rangers also go there, as Aragorn says, and he has this half-sighing tone of "it used to be a mighty tower, now it's a pile of rock".

And as for Fornost, the way Gandalf says it:

"Up away by Deadmen's Dike?" said Butterbur, looking even more dubious. "That's haunted land, they say. None but a robber would go there."
"The Rangers go there," said Gandalf. "Deadmen's Dike, you say. So it has been called for long years; but its right name, Barliman, is Fornost Erain, Norbury of the Kings."

It always seemed to me that the meaning is, in other words: "You are a superstitious simpleton, Butterbur, you know nothing about the noble history, there is nothing scary about Fornost, it is a "holy place" of the Dúnedain, because their King had once dwelt there, and only because it's been destroyed by the Witch-King and has been deserted for a long time, it has the reputation of an "old haunted house" in your eyes."

[CSteefel]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

It always seemed to me that the meaning is, in other words: "You are a superstitious simpleton, Butterbur, you know nothing about the noble history, there is nothing scary about Fornost, it is a "holy place" of the Dúnedain, because their King had once dwelt there, and only because it's been destroyed by the Witch-King and has been deserted for a long time, it has the reputation of an "old haunted house" in your eyes."

Or one could interpret this slightly differently, given when Gandalf makes his statements. Perhaps this is Gandalf's way of saying that the King who has returned aims to clean things up, pointing also to the distant past when the Dunedain did live up there:

And many folk used to dwell away north, a hundred miles or more from here, at the far end of the Greenway: on the North Downs or by Lake Evendim.

which is followed by Butterbur's claim that the area is Deadmen's Dike and that it is haunted. Gandalf follows this with:

Deadmen's Dike, you say. So it has been called for long years; but its right name, Barliman, is Fornost Erain, Norbury of the Kings. And the King will come there again one day; and then you'll have some fair folk riding through.

which could be interpreted as meaning that Gandalf expects things to change for the better, not necessarily that there is no threat at all to the north. Slightly earlier, Butterbur says

...and the Rangers have all gone away, folk tell me. I don't think we rightly understood till now what they did for us. For there's been worse than robbers about. Wolves were howling round the fences last winter. And there's dark shapes in the woods, dreadful things that it makes the blood run cold to think of.

More superstition from Butterbur?? Maybe, but one could argue that the departure of the Rangers has allowed the robbers who came up the Greenway to flourish,

hiding in the woods beyond Archet, and out in the wilds north-away.

Whether the reference to "dark shapes in the woods" is real, or just the imaginings of Butterbur, I don't know. And whether the Rangers are only going to Deadmen's Dike for the purposes of a pilgrimage, it is hard to say, but I don't see the threat to Bree and the Shire has strictly coming from one direction.

[Bêthberry]

Great thread title, Inziladun! And very interesting conjectures here from everyone.

To be honest, I have a bit of a different idea about Aragorn's comments. I've never thought of them as anything but a reference to the Black Riders. I could be wrong, but it strikes me that they are the closest foes Aragorn has most recently faced and might possibly be upper-most in his mind.

After all, at the Prancing Pony he said to Frodo:

Originally Posted by Aragorn, chapter 'Strider'

'Now, don't mistake me,!' he cried, as Frodo rose from his seat, and Sam jumped up with a scowl. 'I shall take more care of the secret than you do. And care is needed!' He leaned forward and looked at them. 'Watch every shadow!' he said in a low voice. 'Black horsemen have passed trhough Bree. On Monday one came down the Greenway, the say; and another appeared later, coming up the Greenway from the south.'

Then later as Butterbur produces Gandalf's letter for Frodo, he says,

Originally Posted by Butterbur, chapter 'Strider'

'Leaving the letter aside, I promised Gandalf no less. Barley, he says to me, this friend of mine from the Shire, he maybe coming out this way before long, him and another. He'll be calling himself Underhill. Mind that! But you need ask no questions. And if I'm not with him, he may be in trouble, and he may need help. Do whatever you can for him, and I'll be grateful, he says. And here you are, and trouble is not far off, seemingly.'

'What do you mean?' asked Frodo.

'These black men,' said the landlord lowering his voice. 'They're looking for Baggins, and if they mean well, then I'm a hobbit. It was on Monday, and all the dogs were yammering and the geese screaming. Uncanny, I called it. Nob, he came and told me that two black men were at the door asking for a hobbit called Baggins. Nob's hair was all stood on end. I bid the black fellows be off, and slammed the door on them; but they've been asking the same question all the way to Archet, I heard.

. . .

'What are all these queer goings on? What are these black men after, and where do they come fron, I'd like to know?'

'I'm sorrry I can't explain it all,' answered Frodo. . . . These Black Riders: I am not sure, but I think they come from---'

'They come from Mordor,' said Strider in a low voice. 'From Mordor, Barliman, if that means anything to you.'

'Save us!' cried Mr. Butterbur turning pale; the name was evidently known to him. 'That is the worst news that has come to Bree in my time.'

Aragorn's words are general enough at the Council of Elrond, yet his reference to "the one fat man" suggests the Innkeeper of the Prancing Pony, who has shown us (in passages I haven't quoted) how little he understands or appreciates Strider. I could be wrong, of course, but it seems to me that no fell creature of the Barrow Downs nor troll of the wilds could strike the uncanny fear into the hearts of men (and hobbits) that the Black Riders do; nor could they be the foes which freeze Butterbur 's heart.