T-I-G LXVII: The Rangers of the North - The Fell Winter

[Nienna]

YesterDay's vote: Interestingly all the lynchees were innocents (or gifteds if we want to get technical) and all the people who were voted as captain are still alive.

Captaincy:
Roa -> Gwath
Fea -> Lommy
Nerwen -> Nienna
Kath -> Lommy
Sally -> Kath
Gwath -> Lommy
Greenie -> Nienna
Loslote -> Lommy
Legate -> Nienna (3)
Lommy -> Lommy
Nienna-> Lommy (6)

NG:
Roa -> Kath (INVALID VOTE)
Fea -> Greenie
Nerwen -> Gwath
Kath -> Fea
Sally -> Nienna
Gwath -> Loslote
Greenie -> Nerwen
Lommy -> Nerwen
Loslote -> Gwath (2)
Legate -> Nienna (2)
Nienna-> Nerwen (3)

Lynching:
Roa -> Legate
Fea -> Roa
Kath -> Greenie
Legate -> Roa
Greenie -> Roa
Loslote -> Roa
Lommy-> Fea
Gwath-> Roa
Nienna-> Roa(6)

Didn’t vote: Nerwen, Sally

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

++lynch Fea

to give an alternative.

I can't pretend I have concrete evidence against her, but that doesn't mean I don't suspect her.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I think it would be a good idea to open up another option:

++Lynch Loslote.

What's with that? Both have the same 'reason' for voting for ordos.

[Nienna]

Yeah that's a really strange comment to make. It sounds like Lommy doesn't care who gets lynched she just wants to 'open up more options.' That is not a good reason to vote for someone.

[Loslote]

Okay, I'm probably not going to get on again until pretty close to deadline, so good luck, all!

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

What is this Nienna + Sally + Loslote triangle of trust?

A triangle of wolfdom?

Funny you should suggest that, as I'm very certain the group actually contains a wolf, an ordo, and a gifted. Guess which is which and you get a cookie.

Originally Posted by Nienna

I call for a Vote of No Confidence in Lommy. This is exactly when we do not want anyone to have control over the lynch. I don't care if Lommy is an innocent or not. She should not get control over the lynch.

Seconded. And to make it official, Lommie=Fired.



I'd like to be captain, for what it's worth. (I'd like to not die toNight, basically, but I also think I have a pretty good grasp on things and would love to help the village, being innocent and all.) Nog, what do we get guard-wise, my lovely?

[Nienna]

OoOh Sally. You haven't heard. I talked to Lottie last night and she's not a wolf! We were night talkers together and I can vouch for her.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Nienna

OoOh Sally. You haven't heard. I talked to Lottie last night and she's not a wolf! We were night talkers together and I can vouch for her.

I see. Exactly how sure are you, my dear? As sure as you are of my role, or do you just think she is?

*really loves this code crap*

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Nienna

OoOh Sally. You haven't heard. I talked to Lottie last night and she's not a wolf! We were night talkers together and I can vouch for her.

I would be hesitant to trust anything said in that kind of confidence, since I'm guessing it's going to be way easier for a wolf to fool someone in a closed, controlled environment where the wolf gets to determine every word you read and you don't have the running commentary of the rest of the village to (theoretically) keep you sane. I'm not saying you're wrong, Nienna, I'm just saying that we have to evaluate everyone based on what they say during the Day, when we are all listening. That's the only safe way, because that's when we're more likely to see a player's true colors - when the combined spotlights of the attention of the whole village can be turned upon them.

SOrry for rattling on.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Funny you should suggest that, as I'm very certain the group actually contains a wolf, an ordo, and a gifted. Guess which is which and you get a cookie.

Isn't always that way? It's never the nice neat package we'd like, it's always a mixed bag. That is to say, I agree.

[Gwathagor]

I'm sorry wasn't around last Night, Lommy. I forgot all about my bodyguard responsibilities and ended up going to a party instead, which is fairly embarrassing.

Well, friends, its all on the line today. No time for "alternate lynching options" like yesterDay (whatever that was about). Either we get it right, or we don't. And lets be darn careful who we elect Captain, since we're stuck with having one.

ALso, we need to do an assumption purge toDay. A lot of players, myself included, have not been seriously examined for the entire game or have been just assumed innocent for no apparent reason. Every single player needs to be analyzed exhaustively. Every single word.

[Nienna]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

Every single player needs to be analyzed exhaustively. Every single word.

I think I know what you mean.

[satansaloser2005]

Tomorrow's deadline day at the paper, so I don't think I'll be around all that much. I'm pretty sure of Lommie's guilt, based on a brief readthrough and such, but I am going to wait to vote just because if the village decides to go for someone else I don't want to help the wolves do a vote split. But we do need to pick a new captain. My choices are as follows:

Me
Nienna
Kath
Gwath/Lottie
Nerwen
Anyone else but Lommie


Going to do a few things for work now so I don't have to scramble tomorrow. Back soon!

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

Every single player needs to be analyzed exhaustively. Every single word.

I see what you did there.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Nienna

Yeah that's a really strange comment to make. It sounds like Lommy doesn't care who gets lynched she just wants to 'open up more options.' That is not a good reason to vote for someone.

As a wolf, when you know that an innocent is getting lynched, you tend to just step back and try to avoid getting your hands dirty.

[Thinlómien]

I'm reading through everybody's posts and those of Rune's. I'm posting stuff that has caught my attention. Conclusions will come last.

Day1
- Sally and Loslote didn't want to be Captains
- Sally said Rune or Loslote wouldn't get her Captain vote
- Sally said: "Also, I think it's weird when people leave codes just because they can. If you've got something to say, fine, but if you're just trying to be tricksy save it." and toDay she's been among the code-whatever mess-makers
- Sally hoped Kath would post
- Rune explained Kath's absence to Sally
- Nerwen picked on Legate about picking on Nienna
- Kath and Rune joked together
- Nerwen guard-voted Kath
- Rune jokes he doesn't like Nerwen anymore
- Loslote voted Rune for Cap
- Nienna was bothered by Rune's votes
- Nienna asked if Rune was around aftercounting the votes
- Loslote thought Rune slightly suspicious but not wolvish
- Nienna seemed to be pondering whether it makes sense to vote Rune for Captain or not
- Sally gave Rune the second lynch vote
- Nienna gave the third lynch vote to Rune
- Loslote was suspicious of Nienna and voted her
- Kath defended Lottie

Related stuff
* I have to rethink of Sally and Nienna in the light of their Rune-votes (it is unlikely they're both wolves at least!)
* various banter and comments are probably unrelated to stuff

Unrelated stuff
* I see I'm still the only one who has bothered/ had time/ been interested to speculate anything about Fea's death
* I really hope to hear more from Kath and Gwath
* I'm expecting to see retractables toDay and I'm not sure if it's a comforting or a terrifying thought

[Thinlómien]

Day2
- Loslote started wavering and had nothing to say on anyone else now living but her and me
- Sally gloats about being right about Rune
- Nerwen was all for finding wolves in Rune supporters
- Sally and Nienna would have been wary of killing a possible hunter Mac, Kath wouldn't and Gwath (in his neutral books, as was I) or Loslote or Nerwen (the two of them not mentioned) possibly wouldn't either - all this if Nerwen's summary is to be trusted, what I think it is (a wolf would know twisting the truth is dangerous)
- Nienna analysed Nerwen and decided she's innocent
- I don't know if a wolf Nienna would've insisted keeping an innocent Legate in office even if he trusted her
- Nienna thought Nerwen innocent, was unsure about Kath, Gwath and Sally and suspected Lottie (and forgot me from the list)
- Sally voted Kath for NG
- Nerwen was thinking of lynching Loslote or Valier
- Nienna voted Nerwen for NG and picked Valier over Los for lynch
- Sally trusted Nienna and voted her for Cap
- Nerwen voted Sally for guard and Nienna for captain
- Nerwen thought Gwath is to be modfired
- Nerwen voted Loslote
- Sally considered voting Lottie and mixed up Greenie and Gwath
- Nerwen said we should start thinking of lynching Gwath if there's no modfire
- Sally voted Lottie
- Sally asked for Nienna to talk with her overNight
- Nerwen jumped on Legate's point against Gwath

Related stuff
* I think I may have to do a 180 degree turn and consider Sally and Nienna at least innocent - I had forgotten the Rune-voting and Mac's suspicions
* let's lynch Nerwen
* to be honest, I'm confused and have no idea bout stuff (yet)

Unrelated stuff
* I wish I wasn't the only one around
* I wish someone made a case against me or asked me questions if they suspect me

[Thinlómien]

Day3
- Nienna was rather aggressive towards Roa
- Lottie: suspicions of Nienna vanished (past behaviour probably a fluke), Kath and Sally innocent, unsure about Nerwen (who slips under the radar) and Gwath (and me, for the record)
- Nienna asked Lottie to give reasons for her list
- Brinn the Night Kill suspected Nerwen
- Sally gained Nienna's trust overNight and Kath almost did as well
- Nerwen asked Gwath who
- Sally considered Nienna and Nerwen innocent, the rest suspicious, and all of this with no stated reasons
- Nerwen voted Nienna for Cap and Gwath for NG
- Kath was rather non-committal
- Nienna: Sally: What think you about Kath?
- Sally votes Kath for Cap and Nienna for guard
- Gwath voted Loslote for NG (and me for Cap)
- Nienna questioned Gwath of his trust in me and he replied
- Lottie voted Gwath for NG (and me for cap)
- Nienna voted Nerwen for NG (and me for cap)

Related stuff
* people Nienna talk with overNight tend to end up innocents in her books
* the wolves weren't necessarily afraid of the hunters anymore after the death of the two first ones
* it might've made sense for the wolves to vote their fellows as NGs and Caps in order to avoid the tricky questions of how come some people are still alive
* remaining wolves = Nerwen, Kath + Loslote?

Unrelated stuff
* I should be studying Art History


edit: xed with Nienna

[Nienna]

Lommy I am truly sorry if you are at all offended. Even if you are a wolf I don't want anyone to be offended. It is not fun .

I've been on the fence about you the entire game. If asked, yesterday, who the wolves were I probably would have said Roa, Fea, and Nerwen/Gwath. I obviously was very wrong. I am not infallible but I do put my trust into Sally and Lottie. If you are an innocent I beg you to do the same. To me it is clear that there are three wolves in a list of four people.

We have all made mistakes. There wasn't even a person put up for lynch yesterDay that was a wolf.

My points against you today:
1. You tried to keep yourself as captain. You said yesterday that you did not want anyone to have that much power but as soon as it was an option for yourself you wanted to keep it. Today is the one day where it can be fatal to have one person be able to make that decision. You even said yourself that you aren't sure if you could make the correct decision while being captain.
2. You continually suspected the people that I'm sure aren't wolves. It is really important right now to have the innocents band together so that is what we are doing. I'm sorry if it feels arrogant or if it makes people feel left out but it is what we need to do to survive. If we were wolves we would not openly all band together like this as it would make people who know they are innocent know that we are all wolves.
3. You've completely ignored Sally's Parody

Some responses:

Originally Posted by Lommy

wolves could easily decide to have these chats with each other and then tell the village "oh I had a special talk with x and she looks really innocent", thus exonerating their mates.

I do understand this but what I did was explain to Sally who I know trusts me that I also trust Lottie and she should as well. I can not ask the other innocent to trust our knowledge but I wanted to make sure the people I all trust are on the same page. If Sally, Lottie, and I were all wolves I would not have had to tell Sally anything.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Who do you think would've killed Fea? I'm sorry, but I'd point my finger at Nienna, who would possibly want to get rid of her friend before the last Days so that no one can realise what she's really up to.

Not cool. We've discussed suspicion based on Meta-game before and it really should be used cautiously. If I was a wolf I probably would have left Fea alive because she was clearly (in my mind at least) the top lynch suspect for toDay. It would have been an easy wolf win.

Originally Posted by Lommy

1) Let's check our lynch candidates' ties with Rune earlier than 15 minutes before the DL when most of people have already voted.

I'm not sure why you are stopping at 15 mins before DL...

Originally Posted by Lommy

The smartest thing to do when you're under severe suspicion and the pack is one innocent lynch short of victory. Grasping at straws, are you, Nienna dear?

The pack would be smart to not make themselves obvious by all voting for an innocent. If 3 innocents voted one person and 3 wolves voted another then the innocent who is left would have to choose and if they choose with the innocents then all the wolves are known and it is just a matter of time before the village wins. If the wolves all vote for a packmate then the next Day the village is still confused.

Originally Posted by Lommy

* I really hope to hear more from Kath and Gwath
* I'm expecting to see retractables toDay and I'm not sure if it's a comforting or a terrifying thought

I agree that I need more from Kath and Gwath and I think retractables are dangerous now and I'll probably use mine and then lock in my vote.

I'm sadly not going to be around at DL as I have to be in class but I hope to be able to form a clearer picture of what is going on before that.

Edit: x-ed

[Thinlómien]

Thanks for making that post, Nienna. It made me feel better about you.

Originally Posted by Nienna

Lommy I am truly sorry if you are at all offended. Even if you are a wolf I don't want anyone to be offended. It is not fun.

Nah, never mind, I'm just old and grumpy, not offended.

Originally Posted by Nienna

I obviously was very wrong. I am not infallible but I do put my trust into Sally and Lottie. If you are an innocent I beg you to do the same. To me it is clear that there are three wolves in a list of four people.

I can see you trust them, but I can see nothing but very vague reasons for that, which kind of alarms me. And I cannot trust them merely because you ask me to (especially as I'm far from sure of your innocence).

Originally Posted by Nienna

1. You tried to keep yourself as captain. You said yesterday that you did not want anyone to have that much power but as soon as it was an option for yourself you wanted to keep it. Today is the one day where it can be fatal to have one person be able to make that decision. You even said yourself that you aren't sure if you could make the correct decision while being captain.

I know. Power corrupts. No, but seriously, toDay is also the one Day when it's fatal to have a wolf in the post. That's why I would prefer being the Captain (but let's not argue about that as I seem to be the only one who wants that, understandably). But - do you think that as a wolf I would've dared to eat my word and abandon the ideals I had been promoting all game especially as there was whatsoever no support for my continued captaincy in sight?

Originally Posted by Nienna

I'm sorry if it feels arrogant or if it makes people feel left out but it is what we need to do to survive. If we were wolves we would not openly all band together like this as it would make people who know they are innocent know that we are all wolves.

It would only be easier for the remaining innocent(s) if you bothered to tell why you trust each other. And I think it would be sort of ingenious of wolves to band together like that precisely because no one would think they'd be so obvious.

Originally Posted by Nienna

3. You've completely ignored Sally's Parody

And she ignored the rules because she wrote it as if there was only one ranger.

Originally Posted by Nienna

If Sally, Lottie, and I were all wolves I would not have had to tell Sally anything.

A fair point. But you could still be doing it for a show.

Originally Posted by Nienna

Not cool. We've discussed suspicion based on Meta-game before and it really should be used cautiously.

I don't think that's meta-game, but if you think so, we can leave it to that.

Originally Posted by Nienna

If I was a wolf I probably would have left Fea alive because she was clearly (in my mind at least) the top lynch suspect for toDay. It would have been an easy wolf win.

And so would probably every sensible person, or at least they can claim so easily. The question is why this happened after all.

Originally Posted by Nienna

I'm not sure why you are stopping at 15 mins before DL...

If you mean why did I pick that number it's because I did that then yesterDay because I needed to know.

Originally Posted by Nienna

The pack would be smart to not make themselves obvious by all voting for an innocent. If 3 innocents voted one person and 3 wolves voted another then the innocent who is left would have to choose and if they choose with the innocents then all the wolves are known and it is just a matter of time before the village wins. If the wolves all vote for a packmate then the next Day the village is still confused.

It may be obvious to vote the same innocent, but not "an innocent" in general. If they're voting their mates, it is a huge risk.

Off to finish my analysis...

[Thinlómien]

Day4 (toDay)
- is not worth of doing like this but:

Related stuff
* Either some people are good at bluffing, or then my misreading of the rules has contributed to my suspicion of them *head explodes*

Unrelated stuff
*

Originally Posted by Lottie

Why? You [me] just said he [Gwath] didn't show up. Why this sudden trust?

It had nothing to do with him not showing up, it was only about his general approach to stuff. But obviously, currently I'm to confused to say this or that.

[Thinlómien]

Alright, a general point:

If Sally and Lottie are the two rangers and both have confessed their roles to Nienna, then I do believe they're innocent, and our wolves are Kath, Gwath and Nerwen.

If the role Sally and Lottie "have in common" according to Nienna is ordo, and Nienna is the gifted Sally hints at being in the lot, then they're just having a show around and at least some of them are guilty.

And if I understand the rules correctly, Nienna isn't forbidden to tell me now on the thread what Sally and Loslote claim to be. Or is she? She should have a complete freedom to claim what others have said in PMs as long as she's not quoting.


edit: xed with Nienna

[Nienna]

Why I trust Sally and Lottie:

I've been able to communicate with both of them at Night. At Night we are allowed to talk about ... things... which we are not allowed to openly discuss on the thread. I talked with Sally and Kath about these... things... one night. Then I was able to talk to Lottie about the same things last Night. Sally I can say without a shadow of a doubt is not a wolf. Lottie is also not a wolf but I'm only 99.9% sure... if she is a wolf, though, she is a fabulous one and deserves the win.

Does this help clarify?