TIG: LXV - Our fate lies with...them?

[Inziladun]

Pitchwife, I don't think, would have been lynched yesterDay were it not for his admittedly suspicious vote retraction, that by his own words he did so as to avoid suspicion. I was seriously thinking of retracting myself and voting for him, but for some reason I couldn't do it. I feel confident at least one baddie is to be found among the Pitchwife voters, and probably the Hakon bandwagon too.

Here's how voting went on Day 1.

Rikae-voted herself for reasons unknown. (Rikae 1)

Formendacil- voted Mira for being annoying. (Mira 1)

Mormegil- voted Hakon for his pregame tp banter, I believe. He then retracted and locked it in again for Hakon, when the latter asked him to retract. (Hakon 1)

Alon- voted Hakon 'for the same reasons as Morm' did; said Hakon might be a Cobbler. (Hakon 2)

Sally- voted Hakon, initially giving no reason. She then retracted and locked it in again for him, saying she would 'think clearer' when he was gone.
(Hakon 3)

Brinn- voted Morm, apparently beacuse she really wanted to vote the soon to be modfired Fea, but thought we'd hold it against her.
(Morm 1)

Tum- voted Hakon w/ no explanation. (Hakon 4)

Rikae- retracted her self-vote. (Rikae 0)

Form- retracted his vote for Mira (Mira 0)

Shasta- first vote for Pitchwife, reason was he didn't like the latter's first post. Shasta also said he had 'no idea' when the DL was.
(Pitchwife 1)

Mac-voted Alon for 'no substance' and fueling the flames on Hakon. (Alon 1)

Durelin-voted Nessa because her posts seemed 'forced' and 'weird'.
(Nessa 1)

Pitchwife-voted Alon for same reasons as Mac. (Alon 2)

Me- I voted for Rikae because I saw her flip-flopping about the Fea-voting idea, and her insistence on using the surveys. She now claims that was a deliberate trap to snare baddies. (Rikae 1)

Pitchwife-retracted vote for Alon and voted Sally for reasons stated above. (Sally 1)

Rikae-voted Pitchwife on a 'gut feeling'. (Pitchwife 2)

Nessa-voted for Rikae because of her 'jumping down everyone's throats'. Rikae then threatened to come after her toDay. (Rikae 2)

Nienna-voted Pitchwife because of the shifty-looking retraction.
(Pitchwife 3)

Form-voted Nessa because he 'would rather be wrong about Rikae than wrong about Pitchwife'. (Nessa 2)

Lari-voted for Me on a 'feeling'. (Me 1)

Hakon-voted Pitchwife to save himself. (Pitchwife 4)

Mac-retracted vote for Alon, then voted me on a 'gut feeling' (those 'gut feelings' seemed to have been catching). (Me 2)

phantom-voted Rikae for no reason given. (Rikae 3)

tum-retracted for Hakon and voted for Pitchwife, sealing the fate of our Seer.

x/d with many

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I was seriously thinking of retracting myself and voting for him, but for some reason I couldn't do it. I feel confident at least one baddie is to be found among the Pitchwife voters, and probably the Hakon bandwagon too.

I'm not saying that I don't think so, but why are you so confident about finding a wolf in Pitch's waggon? That statement comes from nowhere, and considering that you admit you might've voted Pitch, too, is a rather interesting leap.

morm, who other than autume and Rikae is in your narrowed-down list and why?

[Macalaure]

Mira just did something she shouldn't have done.

[Mirandir]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Mira just did something she shouldn't have done.

And what would that be, pray tell, oh mighty Bubbles?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

I'm not saying that I don't think so, but why are you so confident about finding a wolf in Pitch's waggon? That statement comes from nowhere, and considering that you admit you might've voted Pitch, too, is a rather interesting leap.

So considering voting someone is the same as actually doing it?
To expound, Nienna's vote at least looked fairly innocent. The ones who look bad to me are Shasta, who started the push against Pitchwife for what looked to be a flimsy reason, Rikae, who picked it up and ran with it before Pitchwife fumbled his vote, and tum, who despite her explantion, I'll have to examine more closely.

[Rikae]

Inzil, a few things:

1) you seem to contradict yourself in your intro. If you really almost voted Pitchwife yourself and think he was suspicious, why do you assume there was wolvery among his voters? I mean, statistically, there's a good chance there was, but that assumption just doesn't follow.

- I don't "now" claim that it was a trap - I claimed it right after your vote, and the hint that it was is plain for all to see in the posts advocating Fea-voting. Your summery is misleading, and even more so:

3) when you claim that I voted Pitchwife on a "gut feeling" when I had made earlier posts arguing against him - yes, with points - and was, in fact, the first to do so. A gut feeling was what made me choose Pitchwife over other possible suspects, but I certainly had reasons, and you try to paint it as though I didn't.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Inzil1) you seem to contradict yourself in your intro. If you really almost voted Pitchwife yourself and think he was suspicious, why do you assume there was wolvery among his voters? I mean, statistically, there's a good chance there was, but that assumption just doesn't follow..

See above.

Originally Posted by Rikae

I don't "now" claim that it was a trap - I claimed it right after your vote, and the hint that it was is plain for all to see in the posts advocating Fea-voting. Your summery is misleading, and even more so:
.

Aren't you nit-picking a bit? 'Now claims' meant after I voted for you. Was it that much of a reach to understand?

Originally Posted by Rikae

3) when you claim that I voted Pitchwife on a "gut feeling" when I had made earlier posts arguing against him - yes, with points - and was, in fact, the first to do so. A gut feeling was what made me choose Pitchwife over other possible suspects, but I certainly had reasons, and you try to paint it as though I didn't.

I don't recall you voicing serious suspicions of Pitchwife before [B]Shasta[/B ] voted for him, beyond saying he was 'uncontroversial' and that made you uneasy.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Aren't you nit-picking a bit? 'Now claims' meant after I voted for you. Was it that much of a reach to understand?

Why do you need to take such an insulting tone?
It is not a reach for me to understand. Your wording was misleading, so I corrected it, before someone could latch onto it and use it to build the bandwagon against me.

I don't recall you voicing serious suspicions of Pitchwife before [b]Shasta[/B ] voted for him, beyond saying he was 'uncontroversial' and that made you uneasy.

Those were serious suspicions. I consider being uncontroversial and cautious one of the most wolvish things a person can do. Such players turn out to be wolves far more often than loose cannons like Hakon do.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Why do you need to take such an insulting tone?
It is not a reach for me to understand. Your wording was misleading, so I corrected it, before someone could latch onto it and use it to build the bandwagon against me..

I could have worded it better. I should have said: 'Was it not clear enough what I meant'?

My apology if you found it too caustic.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Those were serious suspicions. I consider being uncontroversial and cautious one of the most wolvish things a person can do. Such players turn out to be wolves far more often than loose cannons like Hakon do.

All right.

[Rikae]

That's ok.

[Mirandir]

Mira is being super productive tonight! Yay!

Like with Hakon, I'm going to leave out the pointless bantering posts from the first few pages.

#37
Likes phantom's ideas (bear help village kill wolves, gifteds leave clues, pseudo-deadline)

#215
Agrees with Hakon that the surveys might help, but should not be discussed openly.
Responds to some other stuff Hakon says regarding the bear. Says trusts bear like a wolf.

#228
More speculation about the surveys.
"I'm of the mind that one of the people we trusted most is a gifted, another is a wolf, and possibly a third is the bear."

#294
Doesn't like voting for Fea because won't be able to analyze the votes toMorrow

#332
List! (edited by Mira for importance)
Hakon - "Comes up with ideas and people jump down his throat. But some of the ideas are cheating as we have been told. Seems like a Day 1 lynch canidate because of this."
Mac - giving her bad feelings but doesn't know why
Rikae - seems innocent enough
sally - "Claims to be innocent. And keeps her Hakon votes. I’m leaning towards believing her if only because she is not looking like wolf!Sally."
phantom - essentially is phantom

#335
Responds to Rikae's question about feelings on newbies
alona - trying hard and has well thought-out ideas
Hakon - getting on people's nerves
Nessa - can be sneaky, but doesn't think is a wolf
Tum - who knows?

*insert mini-debate with Nerwen about if Hakon is going to die*

*insert lots of vote tallies by Lari*

#452
Votes Zil
"Zil hasn't been sounding so good since I last did my list. Its just a feeling I get from his posts. And since Mac's vote made him look more innocent to me I guess I'm going to vote for [Zil]"

~~~~~~

I have no idea what to draw from this, except maybe that the wolves thought she would be a trail-less kill. There wasn't any major controversy that might have led to a kill out of spite, so there's not really anyone to eliminate from the suspect list of who killed her. Chances are it was someone that she listed as probably being innocent. So might be phantom, Rikae, or Nessa. Following that logic, Mac is probably not a wolf.

[alonariel]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I feel confident at least one baddie is to be found among the Pitchwife voters, and probably the Hakon bandwagon too.

I think we gave the wolves too much on Day 1 - an inundation of posts and then a lot of seemingly innocent-on-innocent voting/disagreements. I'm sure the wolves jumped on the bandwaggons - either doing it skillfully enough so as not to draw suspicion, or deciding to simply tack on their vote near the end of the Day. Either way, we're royally screwed if we don't start sniffing them out.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Formendacil- voted Mira for being annoying. (Mira 1)

Grrr to Form. Mira has a special brand of humor - it's rare and awesome.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Alona- voted Hakon 'for the same reasons as Morm' did; said Hakon might be a Cobbler. (Hakon 2)

I voted Hakon mostly on the suspicion that he was abusing his newbie status, though I can see how the error of my ways. Unfortunately, it's a mistake both Rikae and I made, albeit with different people.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Brinn- voted Morm, apparently beacuse she really wanted to vote the soon to be modfired Fea, but thought we'd hold it against her. (Morm 1)

Was she worried we might think something amiss with her if she voted for Fea? It doesn't seem the same panick Pitchwife experienced after he retracted his vote for me, only handled in a more deft way. I would've voted Fea if it meant saving either Lari, Pitchwife or Hakon.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Durelin-voted Nessa because her posts seemed 'forced' and 'weird'. (Nessa 1)

She was rather sneaky last game. One to watch, I think.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Me- I voted for Rikae because I saw her flip-flopping about the Fea-voting idea, and her insistence on using the surveys. She now claims that was a deliberate trap to snare baddies. (Rikae 1)

Good! I won't pretend that I have even the vaguest idea of how to set a trap, but the more the better.

That's all I have for now. I'm home for the night, and tomorrow's the weekend for me, so if anyone's still on, please post away!

[Mirandir]

Originally Posted by alonariel

Grrr to Form. Mira has a special brand of humor - it's rare and awesome.

Awww <3 you! I don't blame Form though; he was having a rough day on top of hating Day 1 already. He did retract though, so I is not mad.

Originally Posted by alonariel

Or someone wants to frame Rikae...and then that begs the question, which players would be at an advantage if she were gone?

Well, that would depend on if she's evil or not, now wouldn't it?

Okay, I'm off to do my analysis of Lari's posts now. Let's all take note that Mira is actually doing semi-decent contributions. Keep that in mind while I'm at work tomorrow afternoon. ^_^

[alonariel]

Originally Posted by Mirandir

Awww <3 you! I don't blame Form though; he was having a rough day on top of hating Day 1 already. He did retract though, so I is not mad.

Originally Posted by Mirandir

Well, that would depend on if she's evil or not, now wouldn't it?

Okay, I'm off to do my analysis of Lari's posts now. Let's all take note that Mira is actually doing semi-decent contributions. Keep that in mind while I'm at work tomorrow afternoon.

Very true. And you're doing a really great job, Mira. Like doing what I should be doing since I have so much time this weekend!

[Mirandir]

Originally Posted by alonariel

Very true. And you're doing a really great job, Mira. Like doing what I should be doing since I have so much time this weekend!

Thanks! I knew there was a reason I liked you.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

3. The bear thought Hakon had spotted him. Anyone else notice this?–

That would make the most sense, although could be considered a sloppy move. An experienced bear (or wolf, for that matter) wouldn't get jumpy at the first sign of being spotted. It is entirely plausible that a newbie bear would see possibly being spotted as more of a threat than it was and jump to make the kill before anything could come of it.

If my memory serves (and it probably doesn't), the only one that Hakon stated a clear bear suspicion of was Rikae.

Originally Posted by alonariel

Possible...and I have another (newbie) question. Are we allowed to arrange our deaths in a manner that would leave clues for the good guys to figure out who killed us?

I hope I worded that right...

We don't have any say in how the narrations are done, so no. That's completely up to Boro and wilwa, although they might be so kind as to accept a suggestion as to the manner of death if you ask really nicely.

[alonariel]

Originally Posted by Mirandir

That would make the most sense, although could be considered a sloppy move. An experienced bear (or wolf, for that matter) wouldn't get jumpy at the first sign of being spotted. It is entirely plausible that a newbie bear would see possibly being spotted as more of a threat than it was and jump to make the kill before anything could come of it.

If my memory serves (and it probably doesn't), the only one that Hakon stated a clear bear suspicion of was Rikae.

I'm inclined to agree that the bear in this game might be a newbie. Though I did vote for Hakon, I honestly didn't think him any more dangerous than the cobbler. I didn't have any suspicion as to who the wolves and/or bear was at the time, so that seemed like the best way to go (unfortunately).

It would make sense that the bear would keep around the wolves in an attempt to off a few ordos/gifteds, but then that does somewhat increase his/her chance of being night-killed... One thing I can be sure of, based on the bear's description in the Admin thread: s/he is looking out for Number #1 and no one else.

[Mirandir]

Originally Posted by alonariel

It would make sense that the bear would keep around the wolves in an attempt to off a few ordos/gifteds, but then that does somewhat increase his/her chance of being night-killed... One thing I can be sure of, based on the bear's description in the Admin thread: s/he is looking out for Number #1 and no one else.

I agree, but looking out for Number 1 can mean keeping around the ones that will serve you the best for as long as possible.

All righty, I am falling asleep here and am going to go ahead and vote now on the off chance that I don't make it back for deadline (I'm fairly certain I'll be around) since I certainly don't want to get modfired.

++Rikae

I'll probably end up retracting, since the more I think about it the less I think she's evil, but I need a placeholder for the time being. Goodnight!

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Mirandir

That would make the most sense, although could be considered a sloppy move. An experienced bear (or wolf, for that matter) wouldn't get jumpy at the first sign of being spotted. It is entirely plausible that a newbie bear would see possibly being spotted as more of a threat than it was and jump to make the kill before anything could come of it.

If my memory serves (and it probably doesn't), the only one that Hakon stated a clear bear suspicion of was Rikae.

Interesting how you seem to be able to come out with me as a top suspect in every analysis.

Here, you just said that it wasn't something an experienced bear would do. Well, I am an experienced bear. I mentioned that before. In fact, I don't think anyone else won as a bear, making me THE experienced bear. By your own logic, I couldn't be it.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Mirandir

Well, that would depend on if she's evil or not, now wouldn't it?

Um, what? You aren't making sense - and I apologize if it's a joke, but it looks like you first concluded that I'm probably evil because I interacted a lot with the deceased, which makes no sense at all. Why would I choose a kill that would draw so much attention to me, when I'm already probably the most suspected person in this game? I assure you, I'm a better player than that.
Also, Pitchwife was lynched - for obvious reasons - and I didn't interact with Lari at all, except to say she should contribute more, so I'm really not sure what you're driving at with "both" Pitchwife and Hakon.

As for being framed, I get that feeling, too. I think that may be the bear's motive for killing Hakon, that is - trying to look like I did so out of annoyance or something...? Well, you don't have to believe me, of course, but I never have chosen a kill for such reasons (I've even ruled out kills because they might be perceived that way) and I never will. This is another instance of people expecting dishonorable behavior from an evil me, and I'm getting tired of it. I may be irritable, but I am honorable.

Mira and Inzil are looking suspicious to me because I get the feeling they're hopping on the easy lynch bandwagon du jour (me) with misleading reasons (Inzil, though he backed off it when pressed) or simply bizarre reasoning which screams "I gotta come up with some suspicion, but anything will do, since everyone dislikes and wants to lynch this person already anyway".

Yeah, I'm easy to lynch because I'm hot-tempered and people don't like me personally. I know that. But I am innocent and would really like a chance to be of use to you people, so please at least consider that possibility.

[Rikae]

And now some clever person is bound to call the above a "crafty bid for sympathy" or something. Very well. I don't think I have a chance to survive toDay anymore anyway, but it would be nice if someone could sympathize me in the process of lynching me, anyway. I am actually a human being.

[alonariel]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Mira and Inzil are looking suspicious to me because I get the feeling they're hopping on the easy lynch bandwagon du jour (me) with misleading reasons (Inzil, though he backed off it when pressed) or simply bizarre reasoning which screams "I gotta come up with some suspicion, but anything will do, since everyone dislikes and wants to lynch this person already anyway".

I wouldn't be jumping on your lynch-waggon just yet, Rikae, as I do think you were honestly framed. Mira's reply to my post that you were framed confused me a little - it seemed a little tongue-in-cheek, but could have been more.

Inzil...well, Lari suspected him. And, if we're to go off past games, in which Lari has been pretty darn good at suspecting people before (granted, her birdy was fighting for his life this time), I'd say Inzil deserves a closer look.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by alonariel

Inzil...well, Lari suspected him. And, if we're to go off past games, in which Lari has been pretty darn good at suspecting people before (granted, her birdy was fighting for his life this time), I'd say Inzil deserves a closer look.

For any who are of a similar mind, I'd like to point out that I could have changed my vote in favor of Pitchwife quite easily yesterDay, with little chance of appearing suspicious. 'Framing' Rikae I could have left for toDay.
As I've already said, the last votes for Pitchwife look better to me than the early ones for the reason that his flip-flopping and explanation for it did look highly peculiar.

[Nessa Telrunya]

I think the baddies, rather than being those deciding votes at the end of the bandwagons, were most likely the ones who hopped on in the very middle. Just a thought.