WWLXII: Dead Men Do Tell Tales

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Actually, I was hunting Kath yesterDay. I just wanted to see how people would react to a Sally-kill.

Well, at the risk of being Captain Obvious, it certainly looks as if it can't be Gwath and Sally.

Why Kath, though?

[Boromir88]

And Boro if you're a mutineer I'm saying this now already - you should be ashamed of how you try to manipulate me. But if you're innocent I can just take it as big brotherly advice.~Lommy

I know I am pretty manipulative when I'm evil, but I still would live by a code and wouldn't be that evil.

Says he who missed yesterday's deadline because he fell asleep.~Mac

Haha, you try laying down on it and staying awake!

Hmm. I don't really like the way you latch on to the idea that none of us are evil - shows an awful lot of certainty wrt Mac, Nog, etc.~Rikae

I'm actually still most suspicious of Nogrod, but he did tell everyone he would miss today, and it doesn't feel right to push a lynching with someone who won't be here for a day. It may seem contradictory to why I wanted to lynch Mira, but we knew she would not be back and would be gone...Nogrod has assured his return.

[Boromir88]

P.S. Lommy I was referring to your list post, there are so many holes there...hehe. "I'm not suspicious of any of the loudmouths, but I'm wary of Nogrod because of _____" I could drive a semi through those gaps...well if I knew how to drive a semi I could. (Oh and so no one gets confused, I'm saying those inconsistencies make Lommy look more innocent to me)

[Isabellkya]

Hehe. You are too funny Rikae. Which is it? Cobbler or Wolf? Can't be both. Or are you just content with trying to throw people under a passing-by moving ship for... whatever reason strikes your fancy at the moment and hope someone other than you goes? Regardless if it matches up with what you say previously? xD


At the moment in time, if I were voting - it'd be for Sally or Nerwen.

Sally - is suspicious. Her behavior.. I would assume she is keeping up with the thread, yet she doesn't make comments? Doesn't respond?

Nerwen - she is latching on to things too easily. Going with the flow too easily, regardless if it makes her opinions and stances differ. Let alone for reasons I've previously stated.


*goes off gathering, not hunting*


X'd with Mac.

[Mithalwen]

Here and reading... but I doubt that the missed kill (assuming that is what it was) was intentional since with the role being hidden it seems an unnecessary tactic. I hope it means that the number of agressors have reduced and the remainder somehow didn't get their act together because their dominant colleague was absent... of course this might be overly optimistic.

[Rikae]

Oh, I see, Izzy - you're trying to pose as a hunter yourself? Meh, you're probably just a cobbler, no sense in wasting time arguing with you.

As for hunting Kath - it was something she said the day before. I'll have to go see if I can find it again. It was also partially process of elimination - thinking everyone but Kath, Gwath, Sally and Lommy looked innocentish at that point.

Izzy & Inzil are our cobblers, I think.

Gwath, maybe Lommy or Boro, maybe Kath are aggressors...?

Well, anyway, I know who I'm voting for, so I might as well:

++Gwath

[Rikae]

Now I remember what had me suspicious of Kath - it was all that talk of "twisting words". It seemed premature and an attempt to add fuel to the fire of the argument between Shasta and I, and see one of us lynched. Since I ended up thinking Shasta innocent, and I know I'm innocent, that remark on Kath's part looked like an attempt to get an innocent lynched. Lately, though, Kath has looked a little better. I made my pick early in the Day yesterDay, and later would have hunted someone else (I won't make that mistake again - I'll make my choice late in the day, to ensure that I take all relevant information into account).

[Macalaure]

I need to get a list out of my head.

Boro - Something makes me uneasy about him, but I don't know what. I need to have a closer look at him, and I hope I will have time to do it properly today.
Eonwe - Probably innocent.
Gwath - A whole lot: possible pick for Rikae, suspicious behavior yesterday, less active yesterday (same at night?), the things I already stated about him yesterday and which he didn't really reply to.
Inziladun - Because of his behavior towards Rikae yesterday, likely cobbler, perhaps mutineer.
Izzy - I'm fine with her right now.
Kath - No reason to suspect her right now, but I'm afraid I might have overlooked her a little.
Lommy - Overdefensive to the guesses about the reasons for the missed kill. Also, picked by Rikae.
Mith - Don't know, but probably innocent
Nerwen - Quasi-known innocent.
Nogrod - His absence makes a missed kill more likely, but I have no other reason to suspect him now.
Rikae - See no reason to doubt her claim.
Sally - Possibly afraid of killing Rikae, and she's been less active than usual, so watchworthy. Wouldn't vote for her without any other reason, though.
Shasta - I still think he might be a conspirator.

That makes:
Innocent: Nerwen, Rikae
Pr. innocent: Eonwe, Izzy, Kath, Mith, Nogrod
Don't know: Boro, Sally, Shasta
A little suspicious: Inzy, Lommy
Suspicious: Gwath

[Thinlómien]

The more I see of Mac, the more wary I get. I hope it's not because I thought he might be a baddie after all and thus am now seeing everything from that perspective... it has happened to me before. But I still don't like him, that list of his, it's oh so fabricated. He's going with the flow a bit too much and I get the feeling he's agreeing with Rikae to avoid her putting all her attention to him and realising he's evil.

Okay, I was refraining to comment on the double-killing thing because I had to check the rules (someone gave me the impression there were double-lynches and it made me wonder why we hadn't done that before ) but here's my take on it: I don't think we can afford it, but then again, we can probably afford it even less in future. I think it would be most beneficial to know what Mira was and Annu may be less beneficial information - and checking McCab, the Day1 lynch? The fact that Boro even considers it makes him seem cobblerish. I keep kind of forgetting we have those imps in this game, and even two of them - might be good for everyone to take into account that Nerwen may very well be one.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I think it's safe to say that if the baddies failed to send in the kill on purpose, it would mean at least one of those three (Gwath, Lommy & Sally) is probably guilty.

I don't think so. If I was a mutineer, I would probably have gone after Rikae because I'd have trusted on her bluffing, or then if my mates had opposed the idea I would've gone for someone looking rangerish instead but there's no way I would have intentionally missed a kill, no never at this kind of point of the game (or actually no never ever in any case but that's a different thing...). Just I can't see the no-kill pointing especially at anyone Rikae could probably have been hunting because there was the option of picking someone else.

Originally Posted by Mac

That is not vague at all...

It is vague because my feelings about you are vague. I don't pay much attention to you and the stuff you say doesn't ring any alarm bells (up until you reappeared now) but I have the bad feeling my good gut-feeling of you is false. That simple.

Originally Posted by Mac

But I find the scenario where all mutineers are active and involved and they still missed the kill unlikely (though not impossible).

Well in the end, it all comes down to timezones and timetables. Imagine all mutineers were active players but the deadline was problematic for all but one either permanently (like me) or temporarily (someone having a meeting with friends then or something) and thus the sending of the pick being left to a certain pack member who should be around but s/he falls asleep, his/her computer fails, s/he has to run for an urgent affair x and can't get back in time... I don't really think we can make too much assumptions on this.

Originally Posted by Mac

But, if I'm a wolf and the claimed hunter states he is going to pick me then I'm a lot more cautious about killing him than in the case that he states he thinks I'm not suspicious.

Well that depends on each individual I'd say - I wouldn't act much differently, really, because there's no way of knowing whether a hunter is bluffing or not.

Originally Posted by Mac

Lommy, why are you so defensive about this thing?

Not intentionally at least. But really, I don't think I'm defensive. I merely don't understand your and Boro's logic, and it always makes me slightly annoyed when people start applying meta-reasons because it's not exactly fair.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Well, at the risk of being Captain Obvious, it certainly looks as if it can't be Gwath and Sally.

Well, at the risk of being Quartermaster Dumb, why?

Originally Posted by Boro

P.S. Lommy I was referring to your list post, there are so many holes there...hehe. "I'm not suspicious of any of the loudmouths, but I'm wary of Nogrod because of _____" I could drive a semi through those gaps...well if I knew how to drive a semi I could.

Well I said I was thinking and writing at the same time, I actually started suspecting Mac & Nogrod more after saying it's unlikely all the loudmouths are innocent, because I started sort of rethinking about it. And actually, I've been rather unsure of Nogrod all the game and I was stretching a little when saying I'm not suspicious of him to prove the point that I don't feel secure trusting you... duh.

Izzy's acting weird. I think she may be a cobbler after all.


edit: xed with the double ladies

[Rikae]

Boro and Lommy mentioned checking Mira, but I actually think that would be rather misleading, since the decision to lynch Mira was influenced by the whole debate of double-lynch-vs.-lynching-doomed-person - a debate that isn't really resolved, as far as I can tell. I know I voted for Mira in good faith and innocently, and that had nothing to do with what her role was, which could very well be the case for others who voted for her,. If she is innocent (which I think she probably is) double-lynching her looks like a tactic for the aggressors to go after those who voted for her , who could well be innocent too. In fact, if we do double lynch her and she turns out innocent (or even cobbler), Boro and Lommy will become more suspicious in my eyes for that reason.

On the other hand, if she' did turn out to be an aggressor, it wouldn't tell us much of use either. The other aggressors wouldn't have much cause to have argued strongly against lynching her, since they were going to lose her anyway, but they also probably would have preferred to see an innocent lynched as well.

I still think the time isn't yet ripe for double-lynching.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Well, at the risk of being Quartermaster Dumb, why?

I think he meant that Gwath wouldn't have encouraged suspicion towards my reveal if he had been a wolf with Sally, since it might have put her in danger? It doesn't really make sense, though, since it's not likely I would have been lynched after my reveal, regardless of Gwath's, Izzy's, and Inzil's suspicions. I'd ask him, but he's making pancakes at the moment.

[Boromir88]

The more I see of Mac, the more wary I get.~Lommy

I'm suspicious of Mac, solely for the reason that he said my Nogrod case looked far fetched. I mean excluding Rikae's points today about Gwath, I haven't seen much better reason, or a case to lynch someone, other than what I said about Nogrod yesterday.

Mac saying it looked far-fetched, looks like he's trying to protect Nogrod and since I'm suspicious of Nogrod, I've been watching Mac. But, not knowing Nogrod's role, currently I still think Mac may be a co-conspirator, his first day and half suspicion against Nogrod could have been an attempt to find a mutineer, and his backing off, is to protect a mutineer-Nogrod.

Anyway, those have been my thoughts on Mac for the last day +

I think it would be most beneficial to know what Mira was and Annu may be less beneficial information - and checking McCab, the Day1 lynch? The fact that Boro even considers it makes him seem cobblerish.~

I guess since I want to consider all options that makes me a cobbler?

I think knowing McCaber's role could be beneficial, considering Shasta and Nogrod were also in danger of being lynched. And in this set up, it would be less risk if mutineers wanted to protect other mutineers.

And actually, I've been rather unsure of Nogrod all the game and I was stretching a little when saying I'm not suspicious of him to prove the point that I don't feel secure trusting you... duh.

You're asking yourself the wrong question which is why you're just confusing yourself. You're asking "Can Boro be manipulative and tricksy when he's evil?" Come on, we all know the answer to that, and that's why you don't feel safe trusting me.

Ask yourself...right now, at this moment, do you think based on the kill choices, the no kill, based on everything I have said, do you think I'm innocent? I expect only a yes or no back, no "yes but..." or "no but..." No thinking yourself into circles, just "yes" or "no."

[Boromir88]

Oh, and I'm not saying we need to double-kill today, I was just bringing up the possibility that since the wolves missed a chance yesterday, now we actually could take a chance to double-kill

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Rikae

think he meant that Gwath wouldn't have encouraged suspicion towards my reveal if he had been a wolf with Sally, since it might have put her in danger? It doesn't really make sense, though, since it's not likely I would have been lynched after my reveal, regardless of Gwath's, Izzy's, and Inzil's suspicions. I'd ask him, but he's making pancakes at the moment.

I don't think that would do you much good anyway– it was I who said it, not Mac. And yes, I was referring to Gwath's behaviour. He was pushing quite hard to lynch you.

EDIT:X'd with Boro.

[Nerwen]

Now I'm starting to wonder if Gwath and Boro are in it together.

[A Little Green]

Phew. It took me something like 3 hours to read the thread... I'm kinda glad to be a ghost since I really can't make much out of this mess. A few little (green) comments, though.

First of all, a small thing, probably a mistake but I'd like it cleared just in case.

Originally Posted by Lomz, about Nog yesterDay

However, I'm still hesitant to think he's evil. I think he could have done all of that as a baddie.

Eh?

Then a few comments 'bout the people.

-Legless Sally Dawkins ~ Carpenter
Confuses me.

-Puffy Shirt Rikae ~ Cabin Boy
I'm inclined to believe she's the hunter.

-Pirate Lommy the Infected ~ Quartermaster
Seems rather like the innocent Lommy.

-Gangrenous Inziladun Jones ~ Pilot
Hmm. Earlier on in the game I felt pretty good about him but his reaction to Rikae's reveal was interesting and made me unsure.

-Pirate Boromir the Malformed ~ Gunner
I'm thinking him an unlikely mutineer but possible co-conspirator, maybe leaning ordo above anything else.

-Shark Tooth Shasta ~ First mate
Leaning innocent.

-Snifflin’ Mac Sparrow ~ Cooper
No idea whatsoever.

-Almost-Blind Nerwen ~ Navigator/Sea Artist
The only one I have information on. She is not a mutineer. She is either innocent or a co-conspie. I guess she's innocent.

-Poop Deck Kath ~ Musician (Pipe)
Seems genuine and makes shrewd points.

-Cowerin' Gwath Slasher ~ Powder Monkey
I don't like his vagueness (is that a word?). I was somewhat suspicious of him before people started suspecting him, after which he started to seem more genuine.

-Pirate Nogrod the Fashionably Late ~ Gunner
I have the feeling he's being ordo, mutineer, and co-conspirator all at once.

-Ham-Hands Izzy ~ Striker - Is it only me or is she acting real strange? She has become increasingly weird as the game progresses and I'd really want to know what she is up to. Leaning co-conspie. Probably not a mutineer - I get the feeling that a mutineer-Izzy would be more careful and slippery.

-Short Ruth Mithril ~ Cook
Leaning innocent.

-Stinkin' Eön Bloodbeard ~ Powder Monkey
No idea.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I don't think that would do you much good anyway– it was I who said it, not Mac. And yes, I was referring to Gwath's behaviour. He was pushing quite hard to lynch you.

EDIT:X'd with Boro.

So that's why Mac seemed confused. Well, it seemed to me Inzil was pushing harder - and also that Gwath would have known it wasn't going to happen.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Now I'm starting to wonder if Gwath and Boro are in it together.

Seems like a possibility.