Hurt & Heal V: Ainur (non-Valar) - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Gordis · 04-27-2009, 11:20 PM

I think "the biggest bosses" is a good idea for the future game - so we can indeed leave Gandy, Sau and Saruman out of this one.

Then such nice Maiar as Eonwe or Uinen would get a fair chance.

the phantom · 04-28-2009, 02:03 PM

Since we'll probably have a "monsters" and/or "other" H & H game in the future, it might make sense to leave Ungolient off this one. Though she could easily be explained as an Ainu in the Silmarillion and in other writings, in some earlier stuff she was something else and even later she is not defined specifically.

So, yeah, we can leave her off if you don't want to see her now.

As far as purposefully excluding "popular" characters, thus far we certainly haven't been doing that to extreme measures. In the previous rounds we've included Turin, Hurin, The Witch King, Sauron, Saruman, Luthien, Ulmo, Fingon, Turgon, Finrod, Aragorn, Fingolfin, Eowyn, Gimli, Frodo, Sam, Feanor, and Glorfindel... and guess what? None of them won.

Now, I seem to recall Melkor being spoken against in one of the previous rounds because of his status, but then surely we'll allow him to compete when it's his time, right? (The Valar round most likely.)

Then what about a Maia this round? This is their time, isn't it? They won't be in the next eight or so games for sure. So do we deny popular characters the chance to win their division just because we think they're too likely to win, despite the fact that half of us would no doubt try and keep them from winning anyway?

Meh, you people decide. If we can fill the list up to 20 without them and you want to see them left off, I'm cool with it.

Approved-

Aiwendil
Alatar
Arien
Durin's Bane
Eonwe
Melian
Osse
Pallando
Tilion
Uinen

Being discussed-

Curunir
Gothmog
Olorin
Sauron
Ungolient

Legate of Amon Lanc · 04-28-2009, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the phantom

Then what about a Maia this round? This is their time, isn't it? They won't be in the next eight or so games for sure. So do we deny popular characters the chance to win their division just because we think they're too likely to win, despite the fact that half of us would no doubt try and keep them from winning anyway?

Well, but that is actually also half of the point. That's why I think those guys should have their own cathegory. Because basically, against the "normal" characters, in fact everybody would wish them to win - so that's one reason why not allow them - and at the same time, some people would not wish them to win just based on principle: and that basically puts them in a completely different game, so to say. So I am against introducing them here.

Thinlómien · 04-28-2009, 02:43 PM

I second Gothmog. He's surely a maia, and even though he's not particularily interesting, we may very well have him.

Hmm... wasn't there some speculation about Thorondor actually being a maia too? he'd be a nice addition in that case. And what about Ilmarë, Varda's handmaid?

Legate of Amon Lanc · 04-28-2009, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Hmm... wasn't there some speculation about Thorondor actually being a maia too? he'd be a nice addition in that case. And what about Ilmarë, Varda's handmaid?

Ha, interesting - Ilmarë, one would completely forget about her... and Thorondor could be, though perhaps we should save him for some "animal" competition or something, if there will be one?

Eönwë · 04-28-2009, 05:03 PM

I quite like the look of this list...

I second Gothmog.

Also, I don't think we should include Ungoliant, because I don't think that she's an Ainu. And if we include her, then we'll have to include Tom Bombadil and possibly Goldberry (I, for one, would definately push for them), and that would just make things more complicated.

I think we should just go with "fully-certified" Maiar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Ha, interesting - Ilmarë, one would completely forget about her... and Thorondor could be, though perhaps we should save him for some "animal" competition or something, if there will be one?

We could do that. We could make one called "sentient animals" or such...

Tuor in Gondolin · 04-28-2009, 05:19 PM

If Thorondor is considered a maia then I'll
second him. But his case (and the great eagles in
general) is one of the most ambiguous (which is
saying something for Tollers

) of classifications
in Ea. I lean slightly toward his being a maia, if
Melian could have a child, why not Thorondor? But...

04-28-2009, 02:03 PM	#2
the phantom Beloved Shadow Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: The Stadium Posts: 5,971	Since we'll probably have a "monsters" and/or "other" H & H game in the future, it might make sense to leave Ungolient off this one. Though she could easily be explained as an Ainu in the Silmarillion and in other writings, in some earlier stuff she was something else and even later she is not defined specifically. So, yeah, we can leave her off if you don't want to see her now. As far as purposefully excluding "popular" characters, thus far we certainly haven't been doing that to extreme measures. In the previous rounds we've included Turin, Hurin, The Witch King, Sauron, Saruman, Luthien, Ulmo, Fingon, Turgon, Finrod, Aragorn, Fingolfin, Eowyn, Gimli, Frodo, Sam, Feanor, and Glorfindel... and guess what? None of them won. Now, I seem to recall Melkor being spoken against in one of the previous rounds because of his status, but then surely we'll allow him to compete when it's his time, right? (The Valar round most likely.) Then what about a Maia this round? This is their time, isn't it? They won't be in the next eight or so games for sure. So do we deny popular characters the chance to win their division just because we think they're too likely to win, despite the fact that half of us would no doubt try and keep them from winning anyway? Meh, you people decide. If we can fill the list up to 20 without them and you want to see them left off, I'm cool with it. Approved- Aiwendil Alatar Arien Durin's Bane Eonwe Melian Osse Pallando Tilion Uinen Being discussed- Curunir Gothmog Olorin Sauron Ungolient __________________ the phantom has posted. This thread is now important.

04-28-2009, 02:43 PM	#4
Thinlómien Shady She-Penguin Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a far land beyond the Sea Posts: 8,093	I second Gothmog. He's surely a maia, and even though he's not particularily interesting, we may very well have him. Hmm... wasn't there some speculation about Thorondor actually being a maia too? he'd be a nice addition in that case. And what about Ilmarë, Varda's handmaid? __________________ Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris

04-28-2009, 05:19 PM	#7
Tuor in Gondolin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Southeast Pennsylvania Posts: 3,651	If Thorondor is considered a maia then I'll second him. But his case (and the great eagles in general) is one of the most ambiguous (which is saying something for Tollers ) of classifications in Ea. I lean slightly toward his being a maia, if Melian could have a child, why not Thorondor? But... __________________ The poster formerly known as Tuor of Gondolin. Walking To Rivendell and beyond 12,555 miles passed Nt./Day 5: Pass the beacon on Nardol, the 'Fire Hill.'

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04-27-2009, 11:20 PM	#1
Gordis Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Minas Morgul Posts: 431	I think "the biggest bosses" is a good idea for the future game - so we can indeed leave Gandy, Sau and Saruman out of this one. Then such nice Maiar as Eonwe or Uinen would get a fair chance.