Game Thread: Werewolf- this time it's real!

[Isabellkya]

*achoo*

Oh dear.
Well, right off the bat I'm thinking Gwath and Sally look fishy from their votes yesterDay. Though if wolf mates, would they really be that obvious?

That whole bit about failing to cast any votes, and our only hope is in following the rules. Is something implied to us as a group, or someone in particular? Or just a bit of story telling?

I think I'm going to go search for some anti-dust materials. This place needs a bit of cleaning it seems, wreaking havoc on my sinuses.

*achoo*

[Brinniel]

Hmm...Aganzir's death is a bit of a surprise. She obviously wasn't a no trail kill. I wonder why the baddies picked her...

Originally Posted by Izzy

That whole bit about failing to cast any votes, and our only hope is in following the rules. Is something implied to us as a group, or someone in particular? Or just a bit of story telling?

I was kinda wondering that myself, though perhaps it is just storytelling.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

Well, right off the bat I'm thinking Gwath and Sally look fishy from their votes yesterDay.

As well as you Izzy and Brinn, right?

Well. That was one of the weirdest bandwagons ever.

I mean it's not only that Kuru's confident lead in the votes was unanimously brought even with four consecutive votes to Nienna. But also, it was not done by Nilp, Form, Fea etc. who have a long history with Kuru and who would have particularly wished to see him alive if there was no major reason to lynch him. Let it be added that even if people oftentimes feel insecure with their voting - especially when they think they have only bad choices to choose from - there's an air of apology-making in the last votes that does raise an eyebrow.

All this look fishy indeed. If one could just point one's finger into it.


On another topic. What was this yesterDay Nilp and Firefoot? What were you thinking in here?

Originally Posted by Nilp

Agan 216 a seer hint?

Originally Posted by Firefoot

It strikes me as really interesting that Agan would want to throw a bonus vote out there already - it seems like a rather unfounded move, given the amount of material we have to go on. Hmmm... unless he's the seer... Kuru would be a fairly logical choice as a first night dream, he's well known enough. And that would explain why Agan came out swinging at him.

Well, anyway it looks like the baddies took the hint. The remaining question is, whether the baddies were under pressure to kill her because Kuru is one of them or was it just a clean-up operation to be sure?


EDIT: X'd with Brinn...

[Kuruharan]

Here is my current little rundown before I hit the sack for the night.

Alonariel – No idea, has not appeared

Brinniel – Faintly suspicious

Fea – Always suspicious

Firefoot – Definitely suspicious

Form – ehhh…not too suspicious at this moment

Green – ehhh…also not too suspicious at this moment

Gwath – Definitely suspicious

Izzy – Really not sure

Kent – Suspicious

Lari – AWOL

Nilp – errr…

Nogrod – Faintly suspicious...to my reading seems to have been one of the initial ones to mention Nienna...

Sally – Really not sure

Shasta – Really not sure

Switching it up a little bit, I’m going to analyze some of the ones I’m really not sure about.

Izzy –

#187 appears

#218 – Says Agan is giving Grima too much credit – points out that Grima can only make a gifted fall ill once
Says the baddies may be smoother because they are always in touch
Says we should worry too much about the extra votes

#259 – Says she doesn’t understand why Agan and I are appearing so shifty to everyone else
Says Nog looks like himself
Says she is tempted to vote Nienna

#267 – Votes Nienna

I agree with a number of the things she says. She seems quite sensible and reasonable…which in a way I find troubling. Then she voted for Nienna.

Sally –

#233 – appears, whips us all into shape

#250 – Substantive comment is that there wasn’t much to do on Day One
Says she will be watching who hordes votes
Doesn’t find Grima hunting useful
Says that some are more off the wall when they are wolves
Comments on how little posting took place on Day One

#258 – Says she has no idea who to vote for yet

#262 – Wants to review Nienna

#266 – Votes Nienna

Some useful comments but then ends up voting Nienna.

Shasta –

#205 – appears, says he is processing events

Disappears and doesn’t return.

It may be mistaken but my initial instinct is that wolves would post more.

I don't think all of these are werewolves (obviously because they are not on my "Suspicious" list) but I definitely think at least one might be.

No offense met Kuru, but I don't care if you only played every 100 years, if you are a baddie would vote you out as soon as possible, Day 1 or not, aren't in werewolf that much or not, shouldn't be a factor.

An admirable sentiment, one I, in fact, completely agree with.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Well, this certainly was an interesting kill. Got me thinking in a certain direction . . . Narrows down my suspicions somewhat.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

On another topic. What was this yesterDay Nilp and Firefoot? What were you thinking in here?

I can't speak for Firefoot, natürlich, but as for me I distrust any Seer hints made at certain (inopportune) times, and thus I make it an effort to expose such suspicious things. On any other DAY, perhaps, I would have kept such things to myself. But if you think doing such things make certain members of this group suspicious, I can't help you there.

But I hardly think you guilty, despite attacking half the village. I don't think you'd be that pointblank had you a hidden life. Mwahaha.

[Firefoot]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

On another topic. What was this yesterDay Nilp and Firefoot? What were you thinking in here? Well, anyway it looks like the baddies took the hint. The remaining question is, whether the baddies were under pressure to kill her because Kuru is one of them or was it just a clean-up operation to be sure?

Well, obviously Agan was not the seer. If Kuru is not a wolf, the wolves would have known this, so this wouldn't be the reason that they killed her, as she would have just been an ordo (or a non-seer gifted). If Kuru was a wolf, though, and Agan was the seer, this wouldn't really make sense either since then we'd all know Kuru was a wolf because we'd know Agan was the seer. Unless they just wanted to limit the chance that she'd dream of another wolf... so that begs the question, even though Agan wasn't the seer (say she had a really lucky guess and the wolves thought she was), is Kuru a wolf anyway?

Or were the wolves not even thinking about the seer and just decided that Agan was too much of a liability?

And as for what I was thinking... a potential seer lead seemed like a really good Day 1 reason to vote Kuru. And if Agan actually had been the seer, I think the wolves would have guessed it... that's a little bit too lucky, to just pick one person basically off the bat, and then be so confident as to put two votes on him, and get it right.

Otherwise my vote would have been more or less random...

And just so you all know, I probably won't be around much toDay. Wednesdays are busy busy busy.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Has a last minute bandwagon ever worked? Ever!? I'm not saying I was right and y'all messed it up after I went to bed, given I obviously voted somebody who wasn't evil, but really? Nienna? You thought she looked guilty?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Consequently, everybody who voted for Nienna looks squeaky clean to me, given that wolves aren't foolish enough to draw attention to themselves so soon. They never are. It's always misguided ordos that bandwagon last minute on a first day.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

And because almost everybody who's playing knows perfectly well that last minute bandwagons on Day One are almost always (or just always) ineffective, that puts a new slant on the voters: everybody's experienced in this game, minus Alonariel (who's missing) and Kent (who's doing quite well regardless), so everybody should know better.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

(if it's not a given, I'm posting in fragments so that the internet actually lets me post; long stuff isn't an option)

Consequently, since everybody ought to know better, I'm torn between thinking everybody who voted Nienna (except Nog, for his double-vote, first off) is either basically innocent, or is incredibly brazen.

[Kent2010]

I'm not understanding the reasons why people decided not to vote for Kuru. I'm not saying he looked obviously bad yesterday and you're out of your mind for not voting for him, but I don't get some of the reasons for not voting for him.

I see why people suspect Kuru and he might be my choice as well - although I'm afraid it will only be a cobbler we get that way. But that's not bad for Day1, or any Day.
-Nogrod

He says it would not be a bad thing to get the cobbler, but that conflicts his first statement that Nog's "afraid" Kuru will only be the cobbler.

That split vote for Nienna and Kuru was wierd too. Someone who earlier harped about we have to kill someone "for real" and we have to be careful, votes for 2 people on Day 1? Were you trying to propel Nienna to the lynch, or in the very least making your best attempt to save Kuru, without over-committing?

I really don't want to see Kuru go so early, as he is not one who comes here often and I'd actually like to experience playing with him (and only one Day is hardly playing).
-Brinn

Nifty excuse to not vote for someone.

No offense met Kuru, but I don't care if you only played every 100 years, if you are a baddie would vote you out as soon as possible, Day 1 or not, aren't in werewolf that much or not, shouldn't be a factor.

Part of me really doesn't want to bandwagon since I'm a bit wary of the others who are part of it, but I think I will anyway since I'd like to give Kuru the opportunity to play at least one more Day.
-Brinn

Is now a good time for you?

[Isabellkya]

Well sure, Nog. From your perspective you could lump all of us Nienna voters in the fishy category. Then, you'd be fish-ifying yourself.

Brin's saving of Kuru looked genuine. Unless she doesn't normally do that?

Gwath's and Sally's votes for Nienna look the most bandwagonish. They seemingly come out of nowhere - as in; literally right after you posted about her.


X'd with Kuru.

[Isabellkya]

Originally Posted by Kent

That split vote for Nienna and Kuru was wierd too. Someone who earlier harped about we have to kill someone "for real" and we have to be careful, votes for 2 people on Day 1? Were you trying to propel Nienna to the lynch, or in the very least making your best attempt to save Kuru, without over-committing?

Perhaps the opposite maybe? Since according to the sheets tacked to the wall over there - whomever has the most votes last would get the axe. I wonder about your voting order there Nog.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Kent

Nifty excuse to not vote for someone.

No offense met Kuru, but I don't care if you only played every 100 years, if you are a baddie would vote you out as soon as possible, Day 1 or not, aren't in werewolf that much or not, shouldn't be a factor.

If you had seen me in other games, you'd know that I typically like to keep alive players who are newbies, infrequent players, or someone who tends to get Day 1 lynched often for the first Day or two. To me, it's a matter of fairness. It can be more frustrating as first time player, someone who hasn't played in a long time, or someone who always dies early compared to a regular to hardly play before getting killed, especially as a Day One lynch when reasoning behind suspicion isn't all that strong. WW is supposed to be fun and sometimes that situation takes out the fun and discourages the player from joining another game. I've seen it happen before.

Of course I'm not saying no one else should vote for that player; it's your own choice. But when I don't have any clear suspects, I will vote to save someone I'd like to see alive longer. At that point, it doesn't really matter if they're acting suspicious. Typically the most suspicious behaving player on Day One (who usually does get lynched) turns out to be an ordo. And of course I'm not going to give people free passes the entire game. I'm not sure about toDay, but certainly by toMorrow everyone is fair game in my book.

[Isabellkya]

That is what I was wondering Nog. Because technically you made your vote for Kuru after you voted for Nienna, essentially twice then retracted one of those votes. You wouldn't of been able to vote for Kuru if you hadn't of retracted one from Nienna.

Which brings up something else. You said you thought Nienna was a wolf, and Kuru a cobbler. So why even place a vote for Kuru, when lynching a wolf is of a higher priority?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

Which brings up something else. You said you thought Nienna was a wolf, and Kuru a cobbler. So why even place a vote for Kuru, when lynching a wolf is of a higher priority?

I'm not sure I should even bother answering your odd questions any more... Well, one doesn't exactly know who is what on Day1, right? So voting for two people you suspect the most furthers the chances that one of them gets lynched in comparison to other candidates. It shouldn't be that hard to figure out.

Originally Posted by Izzy

That is what I was wondering Nog. Because technically you made your vote for Kuru after you voted for Nienna, essentially twice then retracted one of those votes. You wouldn't of been able to vote for Kuru if you hadn't of retracted one from Nienna.

I have to ask you about this though. Would you explain me what are you after with this for it beats me entirely. I just don't get what you're saying - or the relevance of it.

Okay. Let me put it like this. The last one reaching the highest vote is lynched. Kuru's fifth vote was mine (33 min. before the DL) and Nienna's was the one given by Brinn (3 min. before the DL). Therefore Nienna got lynched because she got her last vote half an hour later than Kuru did.

Now how does this relate to the question of me choosing to vote Nienna first and Kuru the second - and what are you trying to imply would have been different or would have made my vote more/less suspicious in your eyes had I done it the other way around? I simply don't see it.

But I do understand that you prefer to discuss the voting of other people as yours look so bad... and the thing that worries me a bit as well is that your questions look so... how should one say it in English... factitious, artificial? Or maybe I'm just missing their point?


I'll come back to the voting and posting of Day1 a bit later.

Originally Posted by Nilp

But I hardly think you guilty, despite attacking half the village.

Haha... I don't think I have attacked half the village but I probably have suspected a third of it openly. And that's what we need to do in order to catch the baddies. And we all need to suspect more.

Old werewolf wisdom, part VII: Those who stab you at Night normally rub you nicely during the Day.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

If you had seen me in other games, you'd know that I typically like to keep alive players who are newbies, infrequent players, or someone who tends to get Day 1 lynched often for the first Day or two. To me, it's a matter of fairness. It can be more frustrating as first time player, someone who hasn't played in a long time, or someone who always dies early compared to a regular to hardly play before getting killed, especially as a Day One lynch when reasoning behind suspicion isn't all that strong. WW is supposed to be fun and sometimes that situation takes out the fun and discourages the player from joining another game. I've seen it happen before.

I'm somewhat concerned that I find myself agreeing with Kent again... always a bad sign when someone seems to think the way you do in this game... but I'm also not buying this completely. Sorry, Brinn.

My difficulty here is that you voted for Nienna... who was admittedly not the most newbie nor the most silent person present yesterDay, but she had a good smattering of both. Now, I suppose it's possible that you saw/see Nienna as a toughened battle-veteran of WW, and given the amount of noise being made yesterday, I suppose she was in the noisy part of the pack... but still... I'm not entirely convinced.

It seems to me by your reasoning, Kuru would have been a more logical vote than Nienna. He was an old player, he'd done a lot of talking...

What's more, your vote for Nienna was decisive. Granted, you couldn't KNOW you were the final vote (three minutes before the deadline is early for a last vote, by the standards of some games), but you certainly knew you were putting Nienna into contention.

So this leaves me with the following: Brinn either saw something genuinely suspicious in Nienna--which I must admit I don't see at all--or else you had a different reason for killing her? A wolf saving a cobbler? A cobbler saving a wolf?

Conclusion? Brinn is moderately suspicious.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Duly noted.

And Kent: we keep it fair, in terms of saving newbies at the expense of others, by behaving thusly with all new players. Less experienced players get the benefit of the doubt. It doesn't make for fair individual games, but it does balance out in the long haul.

[Nogrod]

This one makes me crazy as I'm not sure whether I should agree with it or think of Form being the suspicious one here:

Originally Posted by Formendacil

So this leaves me with the following: Brinn either saw something genuinely suspicious in Nienna--which I must admit I don't see at all--or else you had a different reason for killing her? A wolf saving a cobbler? A cobbler saving a wolf?

Conclusion? Brinn is moderately suspicious.

Somehow I'm bending more into believing Brinn - she tends to play with a set of "values" as I do. These include wishing to treat old-timers coming back to the fray from a long time more leniently (like newbies) on Day1 - or not wishing to lynch the kind of "strong players" on Day1 - if there is not a reason to actually think them guilty (here we differed on Day1 one: I thought there was a reason to believe Kuru was not on the good side, she didn't).

The thing that makes me look at this post by Form suspiciously is the bolded part of it. The moral highground of after-wisdom!

I need to look at Form a bit more as I'm afraid some of these suspicions may stem from just the fact that we differ on many things in this game and it's easy to read disagreement as suspicious if one is not careful enough. And he makes good points as well, to be sure.

The wolves are also perfectly cabable of doing it though.

EDIT X'd with Greenie x2 - oh great!

[Firefoot]

So the more I think about it, the odder Nogrod's vote seems to me. He brings Kuru's count up to 5, at the same time giving Nienna her first vote. It seems like if he was only going to vote once, it would have been for Nienna - and I couldn't find that he ever really says he suspects Kuru that much. It almost looks like a vote for Kuru just because Kuru was a "safe" vote because lots of people suspected him so it wouldn't really be suspicious to also vote for him.

It actually seems rather sloppy.

I see that Izzy also picked up this thread, but Nogrod mostly just brushed her off.

And then this:

On a second note. Interesting how Kuru appears very helpful doing an analysis on why Aganzir was killed - but looking at it more closely - how do I get a feeling it's more a post trying to convince us he's no baddie than a post to clarify the reasons behind Agan's death?

Someone questioned why no-one has suspected Kuru toDay. Well I can confess that I still do.

But I'll now try to look at other possibilities as well - and what could be implied if Kuru is a wolf / a cobbler.

Huh. Like I said, Nogrod didn't really seem to me all that suspicious of Kuru yesterday at all. And despite saying he was going to look at possibilities of Kuru's wolvishness, he hasn't... he hasn't even really mentioned Kuru again.

Right now, my inclination is a vote towards Nogrod... I'm a little leery of this, because Nogrod's doing far more talking than a lot of people, so I'm wondering if he doesn't just seem suspicious because there's more to analyze of him than most.

My other thought has been that Kent has seemed... a little obsessed... with his newbie status, wanting to be treated fairly and all that... but if he was a wolf I think I'd expect him to play it up differently.

I'd really like to see some other people post before I have to vote... but, as I said, at this point it's probably going to be Nog. And if I'm back before the deadline (I'd say there's about a 50% chance), I'll look at what's new and maybe or maybe not change my vote...

X-ed with Kent.

[Kent2010]

Originally Posted by Firefoot

My other thought has been that Kent has seemed... a little obsessed... with his newbie status, wanting to be treated fairly and all that... but if he was a wolf I think I'd expect him to play it up differently.

Oh hopefully not sounding obsessed, I guess that's better than ungrateful. I really don't want to sound ungrateful for the courtesy, but playing "fair" just wasn't something I was expecting in werewolf. Either way someone is going to be lynched first and killed first by the wolves, that's the nature of it. It might be fair to give me some courtesy, and I understand letting me play a bit, but how is it fair for someone else to get lynched first for the reason of letting me play more? Fair just sounds like it should be foreign in here, at least that's what I was expecting, but props to those who try to be more "fair" than I would be.

At least Nogrod makes it sound like a very short courtesy and it could just be I have no idea what I'm asking for.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Firefoot

My other thought has been that Kent has seemed... a little obsessed... with his newbie status, wanting to be treated fairly and all that... but if he was a wolf I think I'd expect him to play it up differently.

To be fair, I think I would also be the sort of person to harp on about being a newbie in a game like this if I were to jump in right now--there's a lot of history between some of the players here.

That being said, Kent, you are officially not on my "probably innocent" list because you haven't made a newbie wolf move. Your reasoning is entirely too reasonable (and, yes, I'm willing to grant you're the author) for me to like it. As with Nogrod, I'm almost more comfortable in this game when there are disagreements to unsettle my gut instinct that someone is on my side. In your case, I have no gut instinct about you, so I'll warily accept your reasonability as a sign I don't want to lynch you today.

Sigh... Who do I want to lynch?

Brinn--moderate between guilty and not.
Nogrod--probably not.
Kent--hopefully not.

And that's all I've looked at today... I sort of defended Kuru as not being a cobbler, but that doesn't mean he's not a wolf.

So far no one looking vote-worthy.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Cos lists are rather lovely. (Numbers in parentheses are post #s where I drew my conclusion.)

Probably Guilty (My main suspects.)
Kuruharan (NIGHT kill! + 311)
Brinniel (275)
Firefoot (290)

Somewhat Worrying (Thinking innocent, but with a soupçon of . . . suspicion. )
Formendacil (315)
Nogrod (299 & 324)
Feanor of the Peredhil (292)

Must Watch (Being quite hard to read for now.)
Alonariel
Lariren Shadow
satansaloser2005
Isabellkya

Reassuring (Cos I like the way they think.)
Kent2010 (300)
Shatanis Althreduin (321 & 323)
Gwathagor (351)

Slacker (Having so much fun with this game.)
Nilpaurion Felagund

~*~*~*~

I'm already forming possible Baddie interactions manifesting themselves during the DAY, and all I'm lacking is that one clue.

Most likely I'll vote for Kuru, and use my bonus votes while I'm at it, too.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Kuru

I'm still working on my big analysis post...but am I the only one who finds Shasta's vote/explaination a little troubling?

I don't find it troubling. Shasta has to keep leaving the pub to go off and work on theatre productions and has probably spent more time outside The Eagle and the Child than in. A bit frustrating, but I also understand it can't be helped...I go to school with a lot of theatre students and know they have crazy schedules. A semi-random vote is better than no vote at all which would mean modfire. I don't mind his vote toDay so long as he doesn't continue to make random votes throughout the entire game.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Oh, darn you, Kuru. You just had to go out and make a life-saving post.

(Well, it means I'm finding you sensible and innocent-minded. I'm holding my fire at you, for now.)

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

I don't find it troubling. Shasta has to keep leaving the pub to go off and work on theatre productions and has probably spent more time outside The Eagle and the Child than in. A bit frustrating, but I also understand it can't be helped...I go to school with a lot of theatre students and know they have crazy schedules. A semi-random vote is better than no vote at all which would mean modfire. I don't mind his vote toDay so long as he doesn't continue to make random votes throughout the entire game.

-emphasis mine

See, that word there would be the crux of the matter. Inactivity, I can understand--it is true that drama students have crazy schedules. Inability, consequently to focus on things and analyse them, that I can also understand.

But even so... no vote is truly random--as you say. A semi-random vote is exactly the right way of putting it. But what's the semi-part? There is a reason, undoubtedly, for lighting on me as the recipient of the vote, and this reason is not random. It may be trivial... but it's not random.

[Kent2010]

Woo finally...now I can actually get defensive.

The first is, as Firefoot mentioned, he seems so defensive about his status as a newbie, as if he is using it as a shield to protect himself from worse. He is the one who is always bringing it up.
-Kuru

It's hard not to when you are reminded about your status everywhere you turn...

Fair enough... I am mollified, I guess, insofar as I don't know you, so I can't distinguish between newbie covering (especially since, were that so, you could assisted by PMing with the other Wolves)
-Formendacil

The people I like at the moment are Form (he's nice to me) and Kent (he's either a good newbie or receives advice via PM. I'm inclined to think the former, given how he reacted to Kuru's accusations of me).
-Agan

After this was when I first mentioned my newbie status

But just want to say...I doubt there are any poor intentions, becase I have received a lot of 'hellos' and I've loved my welcome here, but it does come off as a little degrading saying I'm either an innocent newbie or I am receiving constant PM instruction.

My slight frustration, but that was a mix-up of opinion and intention and cleaned up:

It may also just be grasping at straws--a newbie making a mistake would be probably the one certain thing to look for in analysing Day 1 prior to the completion of Day 1.

Of course, it's entirely possible you're innocent but just not guilty-looking enough to come across that way. It's a problem we've all had, once or twice, I'm sure.
-Formendacil

And today...

If you had seen me in other games, you'd know that I typically like to keep alive players who are newbies, infrequent players, or someone who tends to get Day 1 lynched often for the first Day or two. To me, it's a matter of fairness. It can be more frustrating as first time player, someone who hasn't played in a long time, or someone who always dies early compared to a regular to hardly play before getting killed, especially as a Day One lynch when reasoning behind suspicion isn't all that strong. WW is supposed to be fun and sometimes that situation takes out the fun and discourages the player from joining another game. I've seen it happen before.
-Brinn

I responded in 304. Fea responded to my response later. And in 312 I consided the matter closed:

Ok, now I get your logic. I disagree, but I understand the reasons, and I could continue to argue about this in circles, but I will just say...for myself, just know I appreciate the courtesy but please I don't need to be coddled. If you find justification to come after me, than come after me, I can take care of myself.

Greenie adds her tidbit.

I have to add to this discussion about granting people a free pass on Day 1 for different reasons. I think it's a sort of nice courtesy not to lynch people on Day 1 in their first game - or in their first game in a very long while - unless there is hard evidence against them. Deciding not to lynch somebody because that said person is enjoyable to play with is a trifle more complicated, since the person voted for instead easily gets a feeling that s/he is not as enjoyable to play with as someone else. And that, in my opinion, is one step away from fair play. After all, this game shouldn't be about lynching those you know little and keeping alive those you know and like best, but instead about letting everyone play and treating everyone fairly regardless of whether they are special favourites of yours or not.

Firefoot thinks that I'm being too defensive about it.

My other thought has been that Kent has seemed... a little obsessed... with his newbie status, wanting to be treated fairly and all that... but if he was a wolf I think I'd expect him to play it up differently.

I respond to that.

Oh hopefully not sounding obsessed, I guess that's better than ungrateful. I really don't want to sound ungrateful for the courtesy, but playing "fair" just wasn't something I was expecting in werewolf.

And Formendacil later...

To be fair, I think I would also be the sort of person to harp on about being a newbie in a game like this if I were to jump in right now--there's a lot of history between some of the players here.

So, how have I used my "newbie" status as a shield? It looks more like people are using it as a crutch to not vote for me and give a reason to vote for everyone else. I have not once initiated the "newbie defense" and only responded to it when asked or when I felt necessary because someone else brought it up.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

Gwath's and Sally's votes for Nienna look the most bandwagonish. They seemingly come out of nowhere - as in; literally right after you posted about her.

Like we were trying to save Kuru? Is that what you're saying? Why wouldn't we have just voted Aganzir in that case? Nogrod's case against Kuru seemed to me vastly more substantial (particularly for Day 1) than anything that had been said against Kuruup to that point. Besides, two votes doesn't make a bandwagon.

[Nogrod]

I just realised it when Fea finally posted something...

Now in a game organised by the phantom, what do you think are the odds that Fea is not a baddie? Zero. What are the chances she is Thuringwethil? I'd say 75%.

And what she said gives one reason to believe that it is so.

The only problem which I have with this interpretation is that it all looks even too easy and straightforward. Kuru-wolf is in trouble and his friend goes and helps him out in the last minute rush - and then Fea-vampire comes cleaning up the mess by trying to say those Nienna-wagoners must all be innocent - and that Kuru-voters will get her extra-attention because he's an easy lynch... (that probably is a threat for anyone willing to vote for Kuru toDay as well?)

Okay. I'm not buying that all quite yet but I need to think about it.

Originally Posted by Fea

Particularly Nog. Really? A double vote? Why spread yourself unless you know something

Originally Posted by me in #286 answering the same question by Izzy

Well, one doesn't exactly know who is what on Day1, right? So voting for two people you suspect the most furthers the chances that one of them gets lynched in comparison to other candidates. It shouldn't be that hard to figure out.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Kent2010

He says it would not be a bad thing to get the cobbler, but that conflicts his first statement that Nog's "afraid" Kuru will only be the cobbler.
That split vote for Nienna and Kuru was wierd too.

We only get to lynch one person. We should get a werewolf (or a vampire). That's the best option and we should try to do it whenever possible. We should also get rid of the cobbler but that's the second one in priority. So as I believed Kuru to be "only" a cobbler then I would be afraid lynching him would not give us a wolf eg. our primary target. What's the problem with that?

The split vote follows from that. One vote for someone I believed to be a wolf and another to someone I believed to be the cobbler.

Originally Posted by Kent

Were you trying to propel Nienna to the lynch

Of course I was. I thought she was a wolf and I wished to vote her for that. Do you vote people without wishing to see them lynched?

Originally Posted by Kent

or in the very least making your best attempt to save Kuru, without over-committing?

You call sending someone in a three vote lead before the deadline "an attempt to save that person without over-committing"?
You have an interesting vocabulary indeed!

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Izzy

whomever has the most votes last would get the axe. I wonder about your voting order there Nog.

What about it? I gave Nienna her first vote and Kuru his fifth. What possible meaning would there be in the fact that I in a sense "first" voted Nienna and then Kuru?

But that raises an interesting question. I mean does it really matter if someone gives two players their last votes ending up with even number of leading votes on both? Does it then mean that which one the person voted "first" - even if it is in a same post - gets out from the trouble and the "latter" is lynched eg. is there a "first" and "second" vote if you vote two people in a same post like I did yesterDay?