Middle-earth Bad Popularity Cup

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by the phantom

The fact that Eol was responsible for creating the best sword ever, the "Iron of Death" or "Iron of the Flaming Star", which led to Turin being named Mormegil (the "Black Sword"), tips the scales in favor of the Elf-smith.

Well, yes, this is true. If for anything, I would vote him because of this. However, as Nerwen said,

Originally Posted by Nerwen

someone has to vote for the WW.

So

++Carcharoth

And also simply because I believe Eöl is not that good to get into another round; and Carcey has, in my opinion, less chance of winning the next one.

I'm leaving this open, if somebody else votes, though.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

And also simply because I believe Eöl is not that good to get into another round; and Carcey has, in my opinion, less chance of winning the next one.

Hmmm...far be it from me to question your logic, however murky it may be.

But I do think Eol is a formidable candidate to move further on in the combat. He was as complex a character study as any other elf save for Feanor, perhaps. One of the greatest smiths -- AND a spellcaster as well? We get too few instances in the Tolkien's corpus of elvish magic not in tandem with imbued items (like palantiri, silmarils, swords and such). We know of Luthien and Finrod's songs of power, but what shadowy powers lurked in the darkness of Nan Elmoth? Spells of bewilderment, webs of deceit entangling hapless prey. It is certainly something I'd like to hear more about.

Add to that Eol's surly character, his dark visage and black thoughts, it certainly can be argued that the current popular image of a 'Dark Elf' resides almost solely in Tolkien's description of the cunning and cranky maker of galvorn, Anguirel and Anglachel.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

But I do think Eol is a formidable candidate to move further on in the combat. He was as complex a character study as any other elf save for Feanor, perhaps. One of the greatest smiths -- AND a spellcaster as well? We get too few instances in the Tolkien's corpus of elvish magic not in tandem with imbued items (like palantiri, silmarils, swords and such). We know of Luthien and Finrod's songs of power, but what shadowy powers lurked in the darkness of Nan Elmoth? Spells of bewilderment, webs of deceit entangling hapless prey. It is certainly something I'd like to hear more about.

Yes, yes, you are right... hmm... well, but like I said, you see, I would have to read about him once again to make it more "subjective". It is true also, that he was one of the Firsborn - right? He certainly was interesting in some aspects... hmm... well. We shall see how the voting goes. Nevertheless, for me, I still don't like him as much as most of the Orcs

[Macalaure]

Carcharoth entered Doriath when he wanted to.

Eöl had to pay a sword to leave it.

++Carcharoth

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

++Carcharoth

Not voting Eöl even though he was a good friend with Dwarves, Mr. Redbeard?

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Eöl had to pay a sword to leave it.

Ah, yes! But now that actually is a part of the story I like. Hmm... Now it really makes me think I should have voted differently.

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Not voting Eöl even though he was a good friend with Dwarves, Mr. Redbeard?

This is a bad guy thread. Being friends with Dwarves doesn't make you a bad guy!

Originally Posted by Morth

I suppose you knew what you were saying; however, I don't see the comparative context of 'substantive' as opposed to 'complex', particularly since complexity may be construed as a substantive component of Eol's nature.

What I meant that Eol's character is difficult and obscure (difficult and obscure being synonyms of complex). Still, I guess I should have chosen one of those two words instead. That way people won't jump over me by pointing out that I do/don't know what I mean.

[the phantom]

Out of the trolls I like William better, so I can't see advancing the lesser of two trolls as he is up against a dragon. Dragons are way cooler. Scatha must've been pretty tough to take stuff from a bunch of dwarves and the ancestors of the Rohirrim.

++Scatha

[Tuor in Gondolin]

In a strong finish Carcharoth
(metaphorically) throws Eol
off a cliff:
Carcharoth- 5 Eol-3

Next:
Scatha the Worm vs. Tom

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

But I do think Eol is a formidable candidate to move further on in the combat. He was as complex a character study as any other elf save for Feanor, perhaps. One of the greatest smiths -- AND a spellcaster as well? We get too few instances in the Tolkien's corpus of elvish magic not in tandem with imbued items (like palantiri, silmarils, swords and such). We know of Luthien and Finrod's songs of power, but what shadowy powers lurked in the darkness of Nan Elmoth? Spells of bewilderment, webs of deceit entangling hapless prey. It is certainly something I'd like to hear more about.

Sometimes substantive can be taken as complex. I don't need to know why Eol did what he did so long as he did them. Carcharoth is a good evil character to vote for; besides, you know where he stands.

++Carcharoth

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

Sometimes substantive can be taken as complex.

substantive: having or expressing substance, belonging to the real nature or essential part of a thing; essential.

complex: a whole made up of complicated or interrelated parts.

I suppose you knew what you were saying; however, I don't see the comparative context of 'substantive' as opposed to 'complex', particularly since complexity may be construed as a substantive component of Eol's nature.