T-I-G LVI: Panic at the Prancing Pony

[Aganzir]

Ouch. Poor Lommy.

Some comments on yesterday.

I hate being suspicious of Mac all the time, especially as he's a known innocent now (unless he's the cobbler, of which I would not be very surprised, to be honest), but I don't like his lists yesterday. It isn't of much help if you list what people have done earlier and judge them by that. For example he didn't say a word about Greenie's yesterday behaviour but found her innocent only based on her interaction with the wolves on previous days, before the RB was turned.
Also, I don't understand his suggestion concerning Rikae. What do you mean with lack of sharpness? Because I haven't seen any.

I'm not overly fond of Lari's vote for sally after points had been brought up about Brinn's death being better, but she had little chance to save her, and I don't know if she would have been so obvious if she's a wolf, too.

**

++ sally

Legate, frustrating as it is I don't think we can assume Mac innocent just because Lommy dreamt of him. He could still be Ferny.

I was planning to take a look at Greenie but I think I'll wait till she posts a bit more. Also, Lari might be worth a look.

[Lariren Shadow]

Oh Lommy

But we do know who to lynch at least.

So

++Sally

[Aganzir]

I can't help being bothered by this comment in Lari's first post:

As for my sign I am a Sagittarius which actually does say a lot more about me than it should.

Shasta had just said the baddies are under the influence of Fire and Sagittarius is a Fire sign. It looks awfully much like a hint, either to Ferny or the wraiths.

She suggested Frodo should reveal soonish so we could lynch xem. I still don't understand why Frodo should have been lynched if xe had revealed. It would have been a waste of both a lynch & a known innocent.
She also seemed to assume, though, that the ranger can protect the same person every night. Well yes if she had said it later than on day 1, it'd make her look more innocent, but I don't know how likely it is that the wolves discuss the ranger's qualities already on night 1, before the game has even started, so I'd assume it's an honest mistake regardless of her role.

She concluded Ferny is not a threat at all, just an annoying player, as xe doesn't know the roles of the people xe passes on. I disagree. If the seer dreamt of Ferny, she saw xem as an innocent, which means xe'd be more or less trusted as long as xe is alive. And if alive for long enough, Ferny can be of considerable help to the wolves.

On day 1 Lari considered voting me ("she will never trust me again"), Fea ("who doesn't like a good Fea vote on day 1?"), Dury (the fact that her character was a ranger made Lari think it'd be interesting if Kit had made her a wolf), or Lommy ("for reasons stated before"). Okay it was day 1 but still those reasons look a bit strange, especially the last two. It just doesn't make much sense that she considered voting Dury because of that.
As for Lommy, the reasons stated before were apparently stated by others as I don't think Lari herself talked about Lommy. Shasta voted Lom because of her voting me, Mira voted her because her flip-flopping bothered her, Dury because she found her sneaky. But that's pretty much all. So what reasons were you talking about, Lari?

On the other hand, she did forget Brinn from her list. This would point towards her being innocent at least then. Or then it's a bluff, but somehow it doesn't look like so. Although I guess it's possible, though very unlikely, that a wolf would forget to include her fellow...
She had sally listed as a No Idea, but she specifically mentioned she was watching her (but nothing had happened yet). Out of the six people on the list, she elaborated only on her and Gollum. I think it looks a bit like a wraith-on-wraith comment.

She wanted to prevent a double lynch (despite not being sure if they're even possible) and voted Dur. Mac had 4 votes, Brinn & Lommy 3, Gollum 2, she and me 1. She could have voted Lommy or me, who she had said she could consider, as it was almost an hour till deadline and several people were still to vote/retract.
Hmm a bit later she said her vote was pretty much random, and by preventing a double lynch she meant not voting Lommy.

**

Then day 2.

Lari agreed with Mira that the end of day 1 was suspicious. She could understand Mac but found some others suspicious. So, what was actually suspicious about it? Mac wanted to save himself and others didn't want to kill him either. Also, by voting someone who already had votes she could have contributed to the outcome of the lynch.
Later she talked more about the voting, vaguely accusing Mac also of suspecting only three people, and Nerwen because of her vote. What was suspicious about her vote then?

She also thought Nog's criticism towards day 1 votes was weird. I can agree because I found it strange as well.

Okay another list. Nothing had caught her eye about sally, who seemed genuinely innocent. Brinn seemed innocent enough, too - nothing jumped out. I can't accuse her of finding Brinn innocent because I did, too.
However her summary includes quite many "could be or could be not" people.
She was suspicious of Rikae (didn't like her seer/Frodo bantering), me (playing it rather interestingly. What did you mean with that?), Nerwen (didn't like her vote), and Mac (not entirely innocent because of trying to save himself).

She didn't have anything on Durelin, apart from thinking Kit could have made her a wolf & not liking her first post. In her next post she suggested Dury could be Frodo trying to join the wraith team by impersonating the ranger.
She wondered why so many seemingly wanted to lynch Fea and added that she wasn't defending her. If Fea had turned out to be a baddie, it wouldn't look very good on her, but now I guess it's just that she really didn't understand it.
In the end she voted Durelin since she thought Kit would have made her a wolf because of her character. She didn't mention anything about accusations of Dury's ranger show, which I think was the major reason she was suspected in the first place. I don't really like her vote. Especially as we don't know how Kit picked the roles.

**

Day 3.

She asked if Nog's death could be an attempt to frame Fea, and added that of course we should look at Fea nonetheless. Well yes Fea was framed. It's possible she's an innocent speculating or a wraith giving off something from their nightly plotting.

Also, Lari suggested me & Lommy's quarrel could be a way to cover our wolfishness. It wasn't, it's just us playing together (luckily our brawls never affect our RL relationship - we are friends again once we log out).

She said she's fine with lynching Fea, but would maybe want to lynch Mac (been saved twice) or Rikae (something in her posts makes her wonder) even more. Well Mac is not a wolf and I'm feeling pretty good about Rikae as well (I don't think she's looked wolfish even after the RB was turned). Also, if the wolves thought Fea was the cobbler, they might have wanted to lynch someone else. It's impossible to say if they did think so, though, as they have information about the cobbler that we other's don't.
Greenie accused Lari of trying to save Fea with her Dur vote but it doesn't really matter because Fea was innocent.

Then Lari asked if the wolves get a new kill if their original target is protected. I admit this is a fairly innocent-looking question.
She also noted that if the seer dreamt of Ferny, the result was an ordo.

When Mac noted how Lari went from defending Fea to being neutral towards her to being okay with lynching her quite quickly, she responded by saying she doesn't want to die. According to her, there was a high chance it'd be between her and Fea. I don't see it quite like that. Fea was so suspected that it was practically impossible someone else had been lynched, while wolves tend to overestimate suspicions against them.

Okay then she's suspicious of Mac and Rune (who was intentionally a part of the Dury bandwagon & wanted to save Fea). Originally she was suspicious of Mac for being saved from lynching. I do agree that Mac is suspicious but he can't be anything worse than the cobbler, and those seem to be rather weak reasons for such constant suspicion, anyway.

Okay then there's some confusion about Ferny, which also makes Lari look more innocent because the cobbler is certainly a thing the wolves have been talking about even if they didn't discuss the ranger.

Originally Posted by Lari

And what if Fea turns out to be innocent? How does that look for me? Who then looks bad? Rune for defending her? Mac and Rikae for pointing out quickly that she could be Ferny?

Somehow this comment looks quite fishy to me. Like, she's in a way making herself look better and swaying suspicion towards others she's suspicious of. Can't explain it better.

In #563 she listed who she could vote for - Fea, Rune, and Mac. She was the least confident about Fea but everyone else thought her guilty. Voted Mac, who made lists which showed only a few people guilty. I don't really see what's suspicious in that.

**

Day 4, after the RB turning into a wraith & the seer reveals.

Lari has 37 posts, only three of which she has written yesterday or today.

She claimed she didn't know what to think of the seer reveals as both Lomz & Brinn listed two known dead innocents and each other. Mac was on Lommy's list too.
This is rather interesting because Mac had been one of her main suspects and now she accidentally calls him a known innocent.

Originally Posted by Lari

While she did leave the comment in her post about rings, would it be so impossible for the wolves/wraiths to turn Frodo and then throw Frodo to us in a way to save themselves?

What did you mean with this?

She voted sally, saying she seemed like a safe bet, although by then the general consensus seemed to be that Brinn was a better target as her death would remove all confusion about the seer.

**

And today when she just voted sally.

**

I don't know what to make of her earlier posts. She seemed rather suspicious at times and very innocent at others and it's really impossible for me to say anything.

However I think she could be Frodo. Well she started posting much less once Frodo was turned, but that could also be because of some RL hurries. However that Mac slip doesn't look innocent. If she wasn't sure who to trust, why did she call Mac a known innocent?
She being Frodo might also explain that weird Sagittarius comment on day 1. She might have wanted to leave a hint for the wolves, although that isn't very straightforward.

**

Sorry this is so long, I don't know what has happened to me.

[Lariren Shadow]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Shasta had just said the baddies are under the influence of Fire and Sagittarius is a Fire sign. It looks awfully much like a hint, either to Ferny or the wraiths.

She suggested Frodo should reveal soonish so we could lynch xem. I still don't understand why Frodo should have been lynched if xe had revealed. It would have been a waste of both a lynch & a known innocent.

Or I could be alluding to something else there. And you're partially Sagittarius too. So are you partially evil?

I also I wanted to lynch Frodo the first Day so we didn't end up in a situation like this toDay. We have two know wolves, one dead one on her way to being lynched, and then two more. If we knew who Frodo was then either the Ranger could have protected or could have been lynched and then we could have only one wolf to find soon.

On day 1 Lari considered voting me ("she will never trust me again")

You admitted that yourself

So what reasons were you talking about, Lari?

And they were the ones listed. I got slammed last game for repeating what had been said so I was trying not to do the same thing. And I didn't mean to forget Brinn. To be quiet honest I think I just forgot when copying down names or accedentally deleted her name. I'm surprised no one picked up on that till yesterDay.


As for the Day 2 vote, I honestly flipped a coin because I had nothing more to go on. I had no idea that anyone else would follow me. I really honestly just made up a reason to try to justify my (again) throw away vote. It was the most creative thing I could come up with. I'm also rather sick of trying to defend the vote.

Also, Lari suggested me & Lommy's quarrel could be a way to cover our wolfishness. It wasn't, it's just us playing together (luckily our brawls never affect our RL relationship - we are friends again once we log out).

I realize, I also thought that it could be a good way for two wraiths/wolves to make sure that they were not associated with each other. To me, it seemed odd. Even with the explination.

In #563 she listed who she could vote for - Fea, Rune, and Mac.

And take a good look at my reasons for Fea. And by the end of the Day Fea didn't seem guilty. Again, by her own admission and action before, she tends to give it all up when she is guilty. Like last game. She still maintained that she was innocent the whole time though. So I was trying to come up with someone else to vote for because I really didn't think she was guilty by then and, yes, at the beginning of the Day she did seem very guilty.


As for the lack of posts: I've had a lot of other work to do and have been tired. I really haven't had the energy/time to do more than skim. Yesterday I was pretty much either in class or at stupid convocation.

We know Mac is innocent because Lommy dreamed him innocent. That's what I meant.

Also, everyone seems to be saying I'm flip flopping. Maybe because its really hard playing an innocent.

EDIT: X-posted with Legate and Sally. And Miri is going to kill me for my hysterical laughing now.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

So, you could have just translated it to your mothertongue and make nice lists and be silent

You really think it's that easy?

The following quotes are by Lari.

Originally Posted by Lariren Shadow

Or I could be alluding to something else there. And you're partially Sagittarius too. So are you partially evil?

But I didn't say it probably reveals a lot about me. And yes you could but why say it aloud in the first place if it also has an in-game meaning an innocent wouldn't want to be associated to?

I also I wanted to lynch Frodo the first Day so we didn't end up in a situation like this toDay. --- If we knew who Frodo was then either the Ranger could have protected or could have been lynched and then we could have only one wolf to find soon.

But why would xe have had to be lynched? Why couldn't we have let xem live once xe had revealed - it would have given us a known innocent, and if xe was turned, we could have lynched xem immediately.
Threatening the RB with lynching if xe revealed was not very helpful for the village. It gave xem two options: either to reveal & die or stay quiet & be turned at some point. That's what a wolf would want xem to do.

You admitted that yourself

Yeah I was just listing your reasons.

And they were the ones listed.

But many things had been said about her yet there was nothing very clear. Were you suspicious of her voting me, like Shasta was?
Also, you kind of deny being responsible for your suspicions by saying it was just what others had said earlier.

We know Mac is innocent because Lommy dreamed him innocent. That's what I meant.

But you seemed not to be sure which one of the seers was telling the truth, yet you trusted Lommy's claim of Mac's innocence.
Hmm actually you called also Rune a known dead innocent. So if you're a wolf/RB and they aren't (well at least Mac isn't), you knew they were innocent, and slipped that you knew it.
That's the Mac slip.

[satansaloser2005]

Sally: Whew, that was a close one! At least I got the seer!

Shirriff : Where do you think you're going, Silly?

Sally : I'm going to go put this Morgul Blade in my safe-deposit box.

Shirriff : Oh really? I know a really safe locker you could put it in...
Davey Jones' Locker!!! Hand over your sword.

Sally : Uh-oh.

The scene shifts with both of them on the walkway in the middle of the
village. A large rock is tied down with a rope to Sally's feet, as it appears
that the shirriff wants to drown her in the sea.

Shirriff : This is the end of the road, my little robed pal. Your
troublemaking days in Bree™ are over. My plans for the
Mayor are far too important... ...and much too near
completion... ...to rish letting a would-be Nazgul like you get in
the way. So long, Miss stansusedshipyard, or satonaleopard, or whatever your name is.

The Shirriff kicks the idol down, and Sally is pulled down into the sea.
Shirriff : Hmmm... This might actually turn out to be a pretty good day.
(leaves)

Down the sea, Sally survives thanks to his ability to hold his breath for
10 minutes. However, she is tied with short rope as not to be able to pick up
the pair of scissors, rusty knife, sword, or other dangerous objects nearby her that may be of use to cut off the tie and save herself.

Sally : I can't reach that from here.

After a while, two villagers come and talk to each other on the walkway above
Sally.

Rune : Hey, Nerwen, I just committed a felony!

Nerwen : Did it involve that big knife you've got there?

Rune : Yeah! What should I do with it?

Nerwen : Get rid of it!

Rune : I'll throw it in the water!

Nerwen : No, don't do that!

Rune : Why not? I need to ditch it!

Nerwen : It might wash up somewhere!

Rune : What do I care? MY prints won't be on it! I'm throwing it in!
(a brief pause) ...naaaah. I might need it. See you.

Nerwen : See you.

The two villagers leave. After some quite long while...

Sally : Gee, I don't know how much longer I can hold my breath...

After ten minutes have elapsed, Sally goes blue, then green, and floats (the large, but not too large, rock which she could have picked up at any time, keeping her from reaching the surface). Possible actions include, but are not limited to, "Float," "Bob," "Duck," and "Buy Hint Book."

This is the lesson you've been taught — Guybrush Threepwood you are not. When by water you are surrounded -- Get to shore before you're drownded

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I think it's quite late. I will leave you.

All I could say now, I have said in my previous posts.

I probably don't have anything more to add...

Hopefully further, it will be better...

Good night, Bree. Good night, Sally. Tra-la-la-lally, let's kill the Sally...

[Lariren Shadow]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

But I didn't say it probably reveals a lot about me. And yes you could but why say it aloud in the first place if it also has an in-game meaning an innocent wouldn't want to be associated to?

At the time he was also listing the characteristics and what each sign meant.

But many things had been said about her yet there was nothing very clear. Were you suspicious of her voting me, like Shasta was?
Also, you kind of deny being responsible for your suspicions by saying it was just what others had said earlier.

It was not that it was more her first post I didn't like and Nog's comment about her statement your vote that had me suspicious. Both of those things, and since both were mentioned I thought that was the best way to put it. And what Miri said.

And Sally left out Lommy in her list on Day 1. I wasn't the only one.

Hmm actually you called also Rune a known dead innocent. So if you're a wolf/RB and they aren't (well at least Mac isn't), you knew they were innocent, and slipped that you knew it.
That's the Mac slip.

Ok the Rune thing was my bad. I thought I saw that both of them listed known innocents(dead) and went with it. I wasn't reading carefully. I admit it. And I guess I trusted Lommy more. I really don't know why, considering what I thought before but I think it was along the lines of "well, her revel was first and it sort of makes a lot of sense".

I forgot to respond to my vote of Sally even after people thought about Brinn: I just needed to vote and sleep. That's all.

[satansaloser2005]

Huzzah, I return victorious from the works~!


Much thanks to my duckling for posting in my absence, but never fear, I am back!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Legate, frustrating as it is I don't think we can assume Mac innocent just because Lommy dreamt of him. He could still be Ferny.

I know. But what we are clear on is, and what I meant to say, that he cannot be a Wraith by any means. That leaves less people to choose from.

Well, let's put it this way. We have one Wolf from start and one Wolf from yesterDay. YesterDay, the Wolves could not yet plot together at Night, but they likely already were informed of each other's identity. I suggest we talk even toDay. As much as we can. So that it does not look toMorrow like Day 1 all over again.

And,

++Sally

Off to read older posts - trying to look for the third Wolf, at least. Or for Frodo.

[satansaloser2005]

Be Prepared (for the reign of the wolf, precious)
[all Ferny's bits in parentheses]

I never thought a cobbler essential
Just an ordo who's not to be slain
But Ferny's got a glimmer of potential
If allied to my vision and brain

I know that his powers of retention
Are as wet as a penguin's backside
Useful though you are, pay attention
My words are a matter of pride

It's clear from your suggestions for night kills
The lights are not all on upstairs
But we're talking lyches and victory
Your options are far beyond compare

So prepare for a chance of a lifetime
Be prepared for sensational news
A victory's at hand, our ally
And where do you feature?
Just listen to Sally

I know it sounds sordid
But you'll be rewarded
When at last the village is dead
And the wraiths shall triumph again
Be prepared!

It's great that you'll soon be connected
With a team who'll be all-time adored

Of course, quid pro quo, you're expected
To take certain duties on board
The future is littered with prizes
And though we'll be victorious
The point that I must emphasize is
You won't get the ring without us!

So prepare for the game of the century
(Oooh!)
Be prepared for the murkiest scam
(Oooh... La! La! La!)
Meticulous planning
(I'll survive!)
Tenacity spanning
(Stay alive!)
Decades of denial
(I repeat!)
Is simply why we'll
(My heart'll still beat!)
Be winners unchallenged
(Aaaaaaah...)
Brinn's (and Sally's) death avenged
(...aaaaaaah...)
And seen for the wonder we are
(...aaaaaaah!)
Yes, my teeth and ambitions are bared
(Oo-oo-oo-oo-oo-oo-oo)
Be prepared!

Yes, our teeth and ambitions are bared
Be prepared!

[Macalaure]

The formality first:

++Sally

It sucks we couldn't get another dream out of Lommy. I agree with Legate, it's quite possible that she was already protected last night.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I hate being suspicious of Mac all the time, especially as he's a known innocent now (unless he's the cobbler, of which I would not be very surprised, to be honest), but I don't like his lists yesterday. It isn't of much help if you list what people have done earlier and judge them by that. For example he didn't say a word about Greenie's yesterday behaviour but found her innocent only based on her interaction with the wolves on previous days, before the RB was turned.

I did judge them by what they said yesterDay, too, but I don't find Lily's behaviour yesterDay suspicious. I did concentrate on the original wraith, because I think it was too early yesterDay to really find out Frodo. Since toDay it is easy to get away with little posting (we should look after those who try to), it might be that only toMorrow we will have actual clues. I hope the ranger will do a better job on me...

I have four people left to look at toDay, and I will use the same approach.

Originally Posted by Sally

It's clear from your suggestions for night kills
The lights are not all on upstairs

I know I probably shouldn't even talk about her toDay, but this seems to imply that Ferny only gave them the names of ordos, if not of the wraiths themselves yet. Not that we can deduce anything from that, but it's good to know s/he's useless (at least in that aspect). Of course, Sally could just be joking...

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Sally

I am the Walrus. (goo goo g'joob)

I almost posted that yesterday.

For that, you die!

++Sally

Now, I have something useful I want to do toDay (make a certain chart of everybody still living and what they did in various situations), but first I want to attend to grad school business, so it'll be a while.

Something I want to say about the old ball and chain... ahem... better half, I mean:

if he is Ferny, the wraiths almost certainly know it (remember his "send own name on night 2" business?) and won't kill him. If he isn't dead soon, (soon enough that we avoid the risk of an evil vote from him ruining everything for the village) he needs to go.

*searches Ebay for a stylish black dress*



More about everybody else later.

[Aganzir]

sally that's simply awesome!

Originally Posted by Macalaure

I did concentrate on the original wraith, because I think it was too early yesterDay to really find out Frodo.

Why? When you posted those lists, everyone alive had already posted. Okay it's true there might not have been enough information to incriminate anyone, but still. Was it too early to even try?

Originally Posted by Mac

Not that we can deduce anything from that, but it's good to know s/he's useless (at least in that aspect).

This comment really made me laugh.

Originally Posted by Rikae

if he is Ferny, the wraiths almost certainly know it (remember his "send own name on night 2" business?) and won't kill him. If he isn't dead soon, (soon enough that we avoid the risk of an evil vote from him ruining everything for the village) he needs to go.

I thought about that too yesterday, but found it better not to mention it as I thought the wraiths could force us to lynch a known innocent by just leaving him alive even if he is not the cobbler.

I realised I forgot to check Lari's interaction with sally & Brinn when making my analysis. Off to do it now.

[Aganzir]

Just at the beginning of day 1 sally said that clearly our top suspects are Lari & Gollum as she found the body and he is a weapons expert.
On day 1 Lari was one of Brinn's several voting options. Sally, on the other hand said she wouldn't vote Lari. Nothing she had said had looked suspicious and especially as I had said that my vote was random, she hoped no one would go along with it. I'd imagine she wanted to keep a bit more distance if Lari was her fellow but I don't know.

On day 2 Brinn made some wishy-washy statements about Lari, saying her vote was throwaway but it actually isn't that suspicious, and nothing about Lari jumps at her but she's wary because she played a brilliant wolf last game. She was listed as a No Clue.

On day 3 Brinn said that Lari's defences seem shoddy. Especially she seemed to find it weird that Lari was concerned about being voted. She was listed as suspicious, along with Fea and sally. Somehow I doubt Brinn would have suspected both her fellows like that, given that Lommy was already suspicious of her and sally. Why bring the last wolf under the spotlight?

Okay and then it's day 4 and it's impossible to say anything anymore as Lommy had already come out when Brinn & sally started posting.
On her last list Brinn listed Lari as Not sure, but I rather doubt we can make anything of that list.

I find it quite unlikely now that Lari is a normal wraith. It just doesn't make sense that Brinn would have labeled both her and sally guilty, especially as her own survival was still uncertain, what with Lommy breathing on her neck.

I don't know why the wraiths would have gone after Lari, either, as I think she started to be suspected to some extent. Unless they had a strong reason to assume she was Frodo and wanted to turn her before she got to reveal. I didn't see anything that could have indicated that, though, besides maybe the Sagittarius comment.

Now I'm off to do something else.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I thought about that too yesterday, but found it better not to mention it as I thought the wraiths could force us to lynch a known innocent by just leaving him alive even if he is not the cobbler.

In my research, I just came across something that makes me more sure we needn't worry about that:

“Now while Mac was trying to save himself, upon looking it over again I think it was more of an innocent Mac trying to save himself while the wraiths took advantage of it.” - Sally, Day 2 (after voting Mac on Day 1)

She goes on defending him after that.