Gandalf in the 2nd Millennium of the Third Age

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Originally Posted by Gordis

Also I don't see the "siege" of Weathertop as plain swordfight.

Neither do I, given the description of the flashes of light and apparent scorch-marks on the hilltop. In that instance, I suspect the Nazgul were not interested in killing Gandalf, but in capturing him, or -- possibly more likely -- provoking him into running to protect whoever had the Ring so that they might follow. I strongly suspect they never got within fifty feet of each other. But I still have a feeling that the Witch King would happily throw his fellow Nazgul under the bus, if it came to a "me or them" situation.

I don't even want to think about the confrontation at the gate. Jackson's version of it has left a rather disgusting goo in my brain for years.

[CSteefel]

Can't disagree with anything in the two posts above, with the possible exception of Earnur's retreat from the Witch King. I read Earnur's flight as actually due to his horse, in fact it is said:

...Earnur would have withstood him; but his horse could not endure that onslaught, and it swerved and bore him far away before he could master it.

As we seea few years later when he goes to take the challenge of the WK, Earnur was brave to the point of being foolhardy, so one would not have expected him to flee willingly.

But as you say, the Nazgul mission at Weathertop was to retrieve the Ring, so a battle with Gandalf was not really to their advantage here.

On the subject of Gandalf again, I am also struck by some remarks by Aragorn as they are entering Moria that suggest that perhaps Gandalf had been up to more than we know in the past

Do not be afraid! I have been with him on many a journey, if never on one so dark; and there are tales of Rivendell of greater deeds of his than any that I have seen.

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by CSteefel

Can't disagree with anything in the two posts above, with the possible exception of Earnur's retreat from the Witch King. I read Earnur's flight as actually due to his horse, in fact it is said:

As we see few years later when he goes to take the challenge of the WK, Earnur was brave to the point of being foolhardy, so one would not have expected him to flee willingly.

That is what I meant: Earnur was a worthy opponent for the WK, certainly not an easy kill - but the WK didn't hesitate to challenge him to a duel in the battle of 1975. The Nazgul Lord did have courage.

Originally Posted by IIbrîniðilpathânezel

But I still have a feeling that the Witch King would happily throw his fellow Nazgul under the bus, if it came to a "me or them" situation.

Ha- nazgul psychology question! We really know next to nothing about the nazgul interrelationships...

What we see in the "Hunt for the Ring" (RC), is that whenever a lesser nazgul has problems, is upset, or uncertain what to do, his first impulse is to go report to the WK/ to cry on his shoulder, abandoning his assigned tasks. This attitude of the subordinates irritates the Captain.

When the Captain himself is upset (like after Weathertop), he doesn't go to the others seeking sympathy, but hides to suffer alone, and reappears only after he feels OK again. The others, meanwhile, do nothing on their own:

It is a strange thing that the camp was not watched while darkness lasted of the night Oct. 6-7, and the crossing of the Road into the southward lands seems not to have been observed, so that [the Witch-king] again lost track of the Ring. For this there were probably several reasons, the least to be expected being the most important, namely that [the Witch-king], the great captain, was actually dismayed. [...]
Escaping a wound that would have been as deadly to him as the Mordor-knife to Frodo (as was proved at the end), he withdrew and hid for a while, out of doubt and fear both of Aragorn and especially of Frodo. But fear of Sauron, and the forces of Sauron's will was the stronger.
Oct. 7. He arose and cried out to his companions, and drew [the other four] back to him. RC p.180

Actually, I guess, it is a normal attitude of a commander of a small close-knit group, don't you think?

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by CSteefel

On the subject of Gandalf again, I am also struck by some remarks by Aragorn as they are entering Moria that suggest that perhaps Gandalf had been up to more than we know in the past

Do not be afraid! I have been with him on many a journey, if never on one so dark; and there are tales of Rivendell of greater deeds of his than any that I have seen.

This is precisely what is so intriguing about Tolkien. His story is so vast, yet there are always vistas further off that we yearn to see up close. I'd love to read a complete history of Gandalf's travels, just as I would like to hear more of Aragorn as Thorongil (written by Tolkien, and not in a fan-fic, of course).

*sniffs*

Alas, alack, the professor aint comin' back!