Tol-in-Gaurhoth L: Battle of the Fandoms

[Gwathagor]

Since, at this point, there's no question in my mind who I am going to vote for, I may as well do it now.

++Nogrod

His arguments against me have, from the start, been forced, illogical, and exaggerative. I find him highly suspicious.

EDIT: Crossed with Nilpaurion

[Rikae]

Nilp (and Brinn) what is this about Boro/Nog chumminess? Are you suggesting they are wolves together? That doesn't seem particularly likely, and it seems even less likely that, if they were, they would let any obvious "chumminess" show (in fact, I would expect one to get the other lynched, more probably).
Or are you suggesting that one is a wolf "buttering up" the other one? Does either of you have any specific quotes you'd like to point to? As it stands, this allegation of "chumminess" looks suspiciously vague and makes me uneasier about both Brinn and Nilp (especially Nilp, because he repeated Brinn's wording without adding to it, and while claiming to suspect her).

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Nilp (and Brinn) what is this about Boro/Nog chumminess? Are you suggesting they are wolves together? That doesn't seem particularly likely, and it seems even less likely that, if they were, they would let any obvious "chumminess" show (in fact, I would expect one to get the other lynched, more probably).
Or are you suggesting that one is a wolf "buttering up" the other one? Does either of you have any specific quotes you'd like to point to? As it stands, this allegation of "chumminess" looks suspiciously vague and makes me uneasier about both Brinn and Nilp (especially Nilp, because he repeated Brinn's wording without adding to it, and while claiming to suspect her). (Rikae who has never copied me.)

After a more thorough reading of Boro's 208 I must take the 'chumminess' comment back. I said it before (while skimming page 6) cos this:

But I really don't like Gwath's last post against Nogrod. His primary reasons are from Day 1:

That's something he said at the beginning of Day 1, and I'm sure he'd admit were pretty weak. I mean you're not going to find any "quality" reasons to vote for someone on Day 1 and this was something Nogrod pointed out early.

Again something Nogrod pointed out early, and I'm not sure how that makes him a wolf.

Goes back to the "low-key" argument.

Umm, no they do.

Yes, a little over-reaction there? (Boro88)

and totally failed to notice this:

Right now I'm unsure about Gwath and Nogrod. I don't like the way Nogrod went after Brin earlier today, because I think it's way out there. (Boro176)

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

His arguments against me have, from the start, been forced, illogical, and exaggerative. I find him highly suspicious.

Forced? tsk-tsk... I already told you the nature of them, testing whether they would hold. And looking at how you will react to them.

Illogical? No way. Sorry. Very much logical indeed (which doeasn't mean they are correct as the premises need to be correct for a deduction to bring forwards a true outcome - and we don't yet know the truth-value of the premises).

Exaggerative? That's in your eyes my friend. I'd like to remind you that the wolves think they're under tons of pressure when they in fact are not.

So you find me suspicious because I have suspected you? Retaliation then? If you're an inocent that's very bad playing. If you're a wolf I'd understand, but a good wolf would also know better if not under a direct death-threat.


Next stops, reconsidering Brinn & looking at Sally...

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Forced? tsk-tsk... I already told you the nature of them, testing whether they would hold. And looking at how you will react to them.

Illogical? No way. Sorry. Very much logical indeed (which doeasn't mean they are correct as the premises need to be correct for a deduction to bring forwards a true outcome - and we don't yet know the truth-value of the premises).

Exaggerative? That's in your eyes my friend. I'd like to remind you that the wolves think they're under tons of pressure when they in fact are not.

So you find me suspicious because I have suspected you? Retaliation then? If you're an inocent that's very bad playing. If you're a wolf I'd understand, but a good wolf would also know better if not under a direct death-threat.

This is no good, Nogrod. 1. I found at least three instances of poor logic and outlined them in that really big long post. 2. I call your arguments forced largely because of the poor logic. 3. However, the exaggerative element is, as you say, somewhat subjective.

Ok, lunchtime for me now. I'll see you all toMorrow.

[McCaber]

Voting time!

++sally

for reasons already explained.

Now the rush comes...

EDIT: crossed with Gwath

[Macalaure]

Worried about:
Boro(+1) - still don't like his behavior at the end of last day and has said a few worrying things today.
Brinn

Slightly worried about:
Fea(-1) - still don't know what to do with her, but I somehow feel a Feawolf would act differently.
Gwath(-1) - even though some seem to think differently, I think his posts today have looked more innocent than guilty.
Sally(-1) - her vote looks bad, but she hasn't done anything today to make me more suspicious.

Not sure:
Nilp
Nogrod(-1) - don't like his semi-throwaway vote for Gwath yesterday, but other than that, I don't see him suspicious

Not alarmed:
Lal(+1) - a bit confused about her, but not alarmingly
Rikae
Shasta

Probably innocent:
Isabellkya
McCaber
Mith
Nerwen(-2) - posted very innocently today. I had a tendency to completely misinterpret her in the past, but I won't consider that at this point.

[Rikae]

Nilp or McCaber... McCaber or Nilp... hmm....

or perhaps Macalaure, for his misbehavior this morning...

Nah, I'll punish him some other way.

++McCaber

[Lalwendë]

I'm sorely tempted to vote for Boro despite being convinced he's no wolf, because he keeps voting for me.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I have just totally lost track with Lalwendë. For the most part of the Day I haven't got a clue what she's talking about. I mean why the insistence the wolves are willing to kill her the next Night if not for trying to get the ranger on her?

It would be stupid to be so obvious Mind, your spat with Gwath is pretty odd, given that it makes people suspicious. So why do it? I'm not an experienced player but even I wouldn't do that. I'm sure you wouldn't be so plain about it.

Definitely not worried about Brinn anyway. If she is a wolf then I will cop it later.

What about those who are being too careful too? To be honest, I'd worry about those more than I'd worry about Gwath and Nogrod.

When is the deadline?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

When is the deadline?

About twenty minutes...

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Boromir

Good point, and then he casts a throw away vote for Gwath. Something I'm not used to seeing from Nogrod. I remember back when we were all younger Mith going on about Nogrod's need to stay until the dead line and poll/organize the voting. And Nogrod was doing that yesterday, it's a really nice thing to at least have some order at dead line, if that person isn't a wolf. What's so strange about Nogrod, is after polling around, being involved, trying to see the options (and saying Brin would be the best choice) he chooses to stay out of the action and cast a throw away vote.

Hmm...well I think his vote can point either way. I've seen an innocent Nogrod make a throwaway vote at the end of deadline before...

Originally Posted by Boromir

Well, I'm not looking for any sort of alliance (despite what Rikae says ). When I have no sort of gifted information, my only hope of getting a wolf is putting my trust in certain people. I genuinely think I can trust you and Mith, and so far you've done nothing to make me think otherwise. It's not like I'm looking for some sort of tribal pact where we agree not to vote for eachother. I might not agree with who you suspect, you probably don't agree with mine, but generally I trust you're being helpful, in a good way, thus you're innocent. If you're a wolf, congrats you've fooled me, next chance our paths cross we'll see if you can do it again.

I'm glad you trust me (and I promise I'm not fooling you), but I just can't help but wonder if I can trust you. Bah, I think my mind's still stuck on last game; phantom repeatedly said he trusted me as an innocent (and I think that's what caused me to hesitate in voting him)...then of course he turned out to be a wolf. I just don't want that to happen again.

Originally Posted by Rikae

For the record, Mac and Brinn, I said I thought Lal looked innocent.

I was just commenting about what you said in post #187.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Nilp (and Brinn) what is this about Boro/Nog chumminess? Are you suggesting they are wolves together? That doesn't seem particularly likely, and it seems even less likely that, if they were, they would let any obvious "chumminess" show (in fact, I would expect one to get the other lynched, more probably).
Or are you suggesting that one is a wolf "buttering up" the other one? Does either of you have any specific quotes you'd like to point to? As it stands, this allegation of "chumminess" looks suspiciously vague and makes me uneasier about both Brinn and Nilp (especially Nilp, because he repeated Brinn's wording without adding to it, and while claiming to suspect her).

Sorry, but I'm really confused. I can't recall ever mentioning the Boro/Nogrod relationship...

Lal's behaviour is a bit a odd toDay. Being so convinced she's the next wolf kill (I can still see better candidates) and also some mixup on the rules (retractable votes). But is this odd behaviour wolfish? I'm not sure...

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by [B

Brinn[/B]]I was just commenting about what you said in post #187.

Not a suspicion, but a request for clarification.

Sorry, but I'm really confused. I can't recall ever mentioning the Boro/Nogrod relationship...

Maybe I mixed you up with someone else... I'll have to go back and find the person who said that (I remember thinking it didn't seem reasonable, and less when Nilp echoed it.)

[Brinniel]

Rikae's recent posts make me a bit uncomfortable. I won't vote her toDay (no need to spread the votes anymore), but I want a better look at her toMorrow. I'm also not ready to vote Lal but she's also someone I definitely need to take a closer look at. And Nilp...who seems to be jumping on other people's comments. Hmmm.

Best I stick with voting my original top two suspects. So will it be Nogrod or Sally?

[Lalwendë]

Out of my 3 candidates, I'm taking a punt on the idea of a wolf-on-wolf vote early yesterday, so I'm voting:

++McCaber

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Lal's behaviour is a bit a odd toDay. Being so convinced she's the next wolf kill (I can still see better candidates) and also some mixup on the rules (retractable votes). But is this odd behaviour wolfish? I'm not sure...

No I'm just a clown and didn't read the rules properly

[Nogrod]

Talking about Brinn and apart from what I have said already toDay. Someone asked which were my suspicions of her yesterDay. Well basically the same which Mac pointed out: she was playing it veery carefully and backing up almost everything she said, just like a capable wolf would do - and looking at the fact how few actually have suspected her one might say she has played very successfully. If she's a wolf that is.

My insecurity comes from the fact that I opened my toDay's post on Brinn with Boro's idea of her going after the possible seer Kath last Night. Now as went back the thread I realised the situation was not so straightforwards and Boro's point had misled me on the believability of the initial suggestion.

For that reason I'd hesitate with Brinn a bit more all the time acknowledging that people can suspect a right wolf with wrong reasons as well...

That leaves me Boro to watch even more closely.

And Sally as well. Her many times recounted ations from yesterDay look like trying to save a fellow. I've seen wolves giving the crucial vote to their mate to gain credibility and open saves of a fellow at the last moment so it's no good arguing over whether wolves might generally do such a thing. It's up to whether Sally was doing yesterDay or not.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Forced? tsk-tsk... I already told you the nature of them, testing whether they would hold. And looking at how you will react to them.

Illogical? No way. Sorry. Very much logical indeed (which doeasn't mean they are correct as the premises need to be correct for a deduction to bring forwards a true outcome - and we don't yet know the truth-value of the premises).

Exaggerative? That's in your eyes my friend. I'd like to remind you that the wolves think they're under tons of pressure when they in fact are not.

So you find me suspicious because I have suspected you? Retaliation then? If you're an inocent that's very bad playing. If you're a wolf I'd understand, but a good wolf would also know better if not under a direct death-threat.


Next stops, reconsidering Brinn & looking at Sally...

Quicklike. Sorry, I haven't counted the votes so I really have no idea what's going on in that direction. *mutters and flails again*

See quote above? I read the thread last night and noted that Noggie's been on Gwath like Captain Jack on a TARDIS. I still don't see Gwath's big fault, he looks innocent to me, and it makes me think Nog is grasping at straws. Besides, why kill Gwath? It's the same reason I didn't vote for Captain yesterDay; not enough information from him (although I turned out to be right, dang it! heh) that I felt comfortable killing him. Maybe I'll agree with the case against Gwath at some point, but right now it feels too forced, and the post I quoted doesn't help things.

I'm sorry I couldn't explain more, but I don't want to completely spam you people like ten minutes before DL, so I'll just vote.

++Noggie


EDIT: x'd pretty much since my last post. sorry if I'm a bit muddled

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Maybe I mixed you [Brinniel] up with someone else... I'll have to go back and find the person who said that (I remember thinking it didn't seem reasonable, and less when Nilp echoed it.) (Rikae the not-copier)

Aw, c'mon, Mistress Rikae, that's not the way to get me lynched.

[Nogrod]

Oh Sally... If you're innocent learn the better from this then. You guys lynched me in the last game in just the similar way: when in doubt lynch the one who has been controversial. But is exatly the opposite!

Wolves don't wish to be controversial. They wish to be your buddies and rub you the right way. We need to do the "dirty bussiness" to trigger people into posting seriously - the wolves especially.

[Nerwen]

Running out of time...

++Boro.

EDIT: X'd with Sally and Macalaure.

[Durelin]

Gwathagor just couldn’t deal with these people. They lived in their own little worlds. Worthless hobbies consume their lives. And they were all mad.

Werewolves?

What were they on? Didn’t they even stop to think about more logical explanations?

Somehow this Nogrod fellow was the worst. He seemed to believe in his own personal creation story. Something about ‘procedurally-generated’ and ‘open-ended gameplay’. As if the existence as they knew it was a game. It was frightening, the direction the world was headed in. These were certainly the living consequences of the Internet.

Gwathagor greatly desired to be among people of superior intelligence. Cultured people. This was not culture. Right now at the conference he could be listening to a Classicist compare Suetonius’ Life of Nero and “Commodus Antonius” from Aelius Lampridius’ Scriptores Historiae Augustae. Because that wasn’t completely inane.*

Of course it was not long before the lunatic nerdlings realized that he did not belong there, and so he was singled out in these sick, primitive proceedings. He had seen what they did to that other one…of course he had not exactly been sorry to see him go, but…

The mob surrounded him – there was no way to escape. As they pummeled and stabbed him, he cried, “I’m still alive!”

The con-goers were not sure if he was mocking them or just crazy. Soon he lay still, and the mob looked down at the fresh corpse with disappointment. He was only a man.

(*This Classicist-in-training wrote about this, so its random inclusion is both egotistical and self-deprecating. Wee!)

~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-


~The Dead~

Leonard Nimoy (Half-Vulcan) ~ illogically murdered by the wolves
CaptainofDespair (Wererat) ~ Crushed on Day 1 to reveal his Dark Side
Day One (Evil Wizard) ~ Brought down alongside the might of Cluny the Scourge
Kath (Ordinary Innocent) ~ Tortured and ripped apart by the wolves on Night 2
Gwathagor (Ordinary Innocent) ~ Assassinated by con-goers on Day 2.


~The Living~

Rikae - Stalker of the preciousss Andy Serkis
Nerwen - Jedi Master, specializing in memorabilia collecting and movie quoting
Feanor of the Peredhil - Rabid Cosmo fan and TOS-TNG Trekkie with opinions
Boromir88 - Fireworks Pyro and Sean Bean's #1 fan
Nilpaurion Felagund - Noldo with a zanpakutou named Telpelin and the Mangekyou Sharingan
Nogrod - "Spore" anticipator who wants to play Eru
satansaloser2005 - "Doctor Who" Luuuver
McCaber - Old School RPer
Shastanis Althreduin - Rabid Hermione Fan-wizard
Brinniel - 'Reality' TV Fan
Mithalwen - Confused hardcore Tolkienista who thought she was going to Oxonmoot
Isabellkya - Rabid fan of Vampire Princess Miyu
Lalwendë - "In The Night Garden" Fan-mother
Macalaure - "Civilization" fan with Machiavellian tendencies


Right, so... Night 3 has begun. Wolves, PM away, send me your kill. Seer, send me your dream; Ranger, let me know who you want to protect.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Oh Sally... If you're innocent learn the better from this then. You guys lynched me in the last game in just the similar way: when in doubt lynch the one who has been controversial. But is exatly the opposite!

Wolves don't wish to be controversial. They wish to be your buddies and rub you the right way. We need to do the "dirty bussiness" to trigger people into posting seriously - the wolves especially.

And the last game in which you were a wolf you duped me like no other. Nothing personal, I'm not bitter about it, I just don't want to be fooled again. If you are innocent I'm truly sorry, but I'd rather err on the side of caution than of calamity.