Microphones in Middle-earth...the BBC Lord of the Rings

[Essex]

Brian, sorry for going off the beaten track, but have you ever thought of using this leverage on being 'the guy who created the radio lord of the Rings' into perhaps touting the idea of making a TV mini series of Lord of the Rings, over three 'Seasons' if you like.

I remember touting this idea on the Downs here a while back. I worked out (after finding out how long the unabrdiged narrative of lotr recordings takes) that one could split the work to three 18 episode Seasons - (i.e. an hour long, with commercial breaks - so just over 40 mins an episode to make the 54 hours up that the narration takes)

I know this is pie in the sky - but have you ever thought of the idea of making an (almost) word for word adaptation of the books for TV? (re costs, maybe the DVD market could help the BBC pay for this, rather than adding to my licence fee of course!)

I even started a script on this for a laugh a year or so back - it's actually quite fun - my only issues were how, from a dramatic point of view, you show stuff in real time or how Tolkien wrote the book - ie Gandalf's escape from Orthanc and the Balrog - and Frodo and Sam in Mordor at the same time as other members of the fellowship etc.

anyway, perhaps you'd like to be known as the guy who created the TV mini series of LOTR as well as the radio adaptation!

[Brian Sibley]

Originally Posted by Essex

Brian, sorry for going off the beaten track, but have you ever thought of using this leverage on being 'the guy who created the radio lord of the Rings' into perhaps touting the idea of making a TV mini series of Lord of the Rings, over three 'Seasons' if you like.

It's a cool idea, but I've no doubt that the TV rights are now well and truly sewn-up. I'm sure they were owned by Zeantz at one time and I suspect they have passed on to New Line/United Aritists/MGM or some combination thereof... For example, a few years ago the amateur rights in 'The Hobbit' were retained by the estate (and I got permission to do a production of my own adaptation) but then, a year or eighteen months ago, those rights were signed over to Zaentz...

Besides, I'm not sue I'd have the stamina for a second quest...

[davem]

Actually what I'd really like to see is book about the series, including the full scripts, pictures, cast interviews, transcript of Christopher's pronunciation tape, etc. I suspect there would be a lot of interest in such a project. Maybe BBC Books, or Harper Collins would bite? After the slew of books about the movies (mostly by Brian himself) it would be nice to get something about the series as well. A nice large format p/b (like the movie tie-ins) with the wonderful Eric Fraser painting on the cover ....

Maybe we should start a petition....

[Estelyn Telcontar]

That's a great idea, davem! I'd buy that book for sure. "Making of.." books and documentaries are quite popular, and Tolkien fandom is large enough to make such a project financially feasible.

Now to the second CD - I'm gradually catching up. Aragorn's voice did take some getting used to for me - he's one of my most favouritest ( ) characters, and though my inner voice is vague, it definitely lets me know what's not quite right. I did get used to it though, and he sounds older and more mature than FilmAragorn.

Though I missed the bath song, among other things, it's quite understandable that it should be left out. After all, I can still read the missing passages in the book. I really enjoyed the number of songs and poems that were included as well as dialogues such as the testimony to friendship in the 'conspiracy' scene. Tolkien's words there can't be topped - "You can trust us..."

"All that is gold..." is included, which I enjoyed very much, as well as the "fair/foul" lines. I liked Sam's singing of the Gil-Galad song. And that most important moment at the Ford of Bruinen, which makes the scene infinitely better than the weakness of MovieFrodo - "By Elbereth and Lúthien the Fair, you shall have neither the Ring nor me!" is triumphant!

I grew up in a family that read a lot, and family readings were a regular thing even when we children were able to read on our own. I dearly love the experience of being read to that these recordings give me!

[Brian Sibley]

Originally Posted by davem

Actually what I'd really like to see is book about the series, including the full scripts, pictures, cast interviews, transcript of Christopher's pronunciation tape, etc. I suspect there would be a lot of interest in such a project. Maybe BBC Books, or Harper Collins would bite? After the slew of books about the movies (mostly by Brian himself) it would be nice to get something about the series as well. A nice large format p/b (like the movie tie-ins) with the wonderful Eric Fraser painting on the cover ....

Maybe we should start a petition....

Yep! Good idea, Dave, except... The BBC considered the idea of a Scripts Book some years ago, but felt, in the end, that the time for TLOTR - in terms of wide-ranging, popular merchandising - was past... Sorry to keep being a wet-blanket... Who knows, maybe, if The Hobbit happens...

[William Cloud Hicklin]

For example, a few years ago the amateur rights in 'The Hobbit' were retained by the estate (and I got permission to do a production of my own adaptation) but then, a year or eighteen months ago, those rights were signed over to Zaentz...

Interesting- so the Estate is not nearly so anti-adaptations as its detractors would have us believe.

[davem]

Which reminds me of something I wanted to ask Brian....

I've heard you say a couple of times that when you first suggested adapting LotR for Radio 4 you were surprised to be told that the BBC were actively negotiating the radio rights. What I was wondering was whether Christopher Tolkien required, as part of those rights, that he should approve the scripts, or was your sending them to him merely a matter of courtesy? And did he retain any right to 'veto' anything he didn't approve of - not that I'm suggesting he'd need to, just wondering whether he had that right included in the original contract. And if there had been something in the scripts that you liked but he didn't, would you have changed it?

Actually, I'm just interested to know the extent of his involvement beyond making the tape (oh, & do you know what actually happened to that tape? I wish you'd played more of it on that far distant day at the Church House Bookshop.....)

And, now I think of it, does the BBC still own the radio rights, or did they just negotiate for this one production?

[ArathornJax]

I didn't have much listening time today (but will tomorrow driving home from the conference). Today I listen to the council of Elrond, to the departure, to the Red Horn Gate and the snowfall blocking them.

I enjoyed the Council of Elrond and especially liked Elrond's adaptation. He is more in line with what I feel Elrond is like (at least for me). No disrespect to Hugo Weaving, I just didn't like the adaptation that Elrond actively tried to stop the union of Aragorn and Arwen in the movie adaptations. In the movies Elrond reminds me much more of Thingol. In this adaptation Elrond recognizes that he cannot control who his daughter falls in love with (and isn't that so very true for those of us who have daughters!) but he is in a position to set the terms that her husband will have to fulfill.

Not sure if this is the place, and this might be a new thread to make in the book section, but I have always marveled at the contrast between Elrond and Thngol. Both had daughters who fell in love with mortal men and plodded their troths to them. Both fathers set conditions to that had to be fulfilled prior to the marriage occurring. This is where I go back and forth for Thingol gave Beren such a insurmountable task, almost a certain death sentence in his mind. Was Elrond's condition as drastic as Thingol's? Was becoming king of both Gondor and Arnor also almost a insurmountable task? Based on the book and the radio adaptation I have always felt that Elrond felt there was a hope, even if it was only a fool's hope. I still feel that Thingol was spiteful to Beren to where Elrond was securing his daughters future legacy. Also, I think Elrond might have guessed that this was the way that Luthien's line would continue on til the end of the world. Or it just could be that Elrond was a overly protective father. Guess I am just thinking aloud.

Anyway, I have to say that whenever I hear Michael Cox's speaking as Boromir I see in my mind's eye Ralph Bakshi's version of Boromir and I don't know why. Boromir to me has never looked like an Viking warrior (Viking's didn't wear horns). I imagine Boromir as a noble Norman knight from William I's era. I think that is because of his instance to use the ring for victory, not thinking of the cost, just full steam ahead and ram it down the enemy's throat. Please don't take this to mean that I don't enjoy Mr. Cox's Boromir, I do, and I think his portrayal brings to me a strong willed Boromir who is like all of us, susceptible of falling to the evil and temptations of the ring. I just have to get that image out of my head though.

One of the things that stuck out to me (and I know the pause before Frodo's acceptance of the task of ringbearer has been discussed) is that Elrond and for that matter, I think Gandalf have seen something in Frodo that is fore-ordained for taking this task. I guess the question that came to me today in listening then is what did Elrond see in Frodo that made him guess that if Frodo did not find a way, no one would? Was it Frodo's ability to withstand the evil of the ring? Did Elrond's relationship with Bilbo give Elrond insight into hobbits ability to withstand the evil of the ring? For me it goes to what Bilbo and Frodo were focused on, others and not themselves; unselfishness vs. selfishness; friendship vs animosity; hope vs. despair etc.

This nature also I think is why Gandalf convinces Elrond to allow Merry and Pippin to go. One thing I noticed and I may have to look back on the thread is the bell that rings right before Frodo accepts the task. Is that just because the bell was letting us know sometime had pass and then Frodo accepts?

The journey south is uneventful. The scene with the carrion is removed and that is easy to understand why. The debate between Gandalf and Frodo follows the book and the march up the RedHorn is one I enjoy. I love the banter between Gandalf and Legolas on the sun and the actors here nailed the dialogue I felt. I love Sam's "if this is a shelter then a house is one wall with no roof" comment also. What an interesting contrast this scene with Sam will be versus how he acts in Mordor and on Mt. Doom.
Another thing I love in this scene are the fell voices in the storm. If you listen carefully, they are there in the background and that was a very nice and subtle affect. I love how this scene shows how the power of Sauron has grown long enough to reach out 300 leagues and bring that bad of weather on the ground.

Another thing I noticed today is that Caradhras was evil in nature long before Sauron was every heard of. This for me shows much like the Matterhorn and other mountains in the Alps (and in the world for that matter), have developed a bad reputation about them.

Well, I guess I got more out of the short listening today that I thought. An observation though. I read the complete trilogy once a year and yet in listening to the adaptation it still brings many new insights and thoughts to me. Just another sign of what an excellent work it is!

[Brian Sibley]

Originally Posted by davem

Which reminds me of something I wanted to ask Brian....

I've heard you say a couple of times that when you first suggested adapting LotR for Radio 4 you were surprised to be told that the BBC were actively negotiating the radio rights. What I was wondering was whether Christopher Tolkien required, as part of those rights, that he should approve the scripts, or was your sending them to him merely a matter of courtesy? And did he retain any right to 'veto' anything he didn't approve of - not that I'm suggesting he'd need to, just wondering whether he had that right included in the original contract. And if there had been something in the scripts that you liked but he didn't, would you have changed it?

I can't now remember - and, indeed, was probably not even told - the terms of the BBC deal with the Tolkien Estate.

Before I came onto the project, the BBC had been negotiating - for some time, I believe - with Saul Zaentz whom, it was assumed, owned the radio along with the film and theatrical rights in TLOTR. Only after the BBC had paid SZ the agreed fee did it somehow emerge that the radio rights were never part of the original deal with JRRT.

Zaentz returned the payment and fresh negotiations were entered into with the Tolkien Estate.

I doubt that the BBC would have agreed to his having a power of veto and I do remember very clearly that we were not allowed to say that the series was 'approved' or 'endorsed' by Christopher Tolkien. My understanding was that CT was shown the scripts as a courtesy and because we wanted his advice and the benefit of his knowledge.

He was shown my original 'synopsis' (the scene-by-scene breakdown of the 26 episodes) which included the page numbers of each section (one volume paperback for convenience) and similar references where material was taken from The Hobbit and Unfinished Tales, as well as indicating cuts and omissions.

He was then show each of the finished scripts which he critiqued - pointing out errors in detail or chronology, asking questions and making suggestions. I know Michael Bakewell has said that CT asked why Pippin was so stupid (Michael frequently used Pippin to ask questions so that other characters could deliver passages of essential information necessary for the audience's understanding of what was going on) but I can't recall other specific instances of his responses... Sorry! It is over 25 years ago...

Somewhere, someone probably has those letters... Or maybe, like the original tapes, they have been 'lost'...

Originally Posted by davem

Actually, I'm just interested to know the extent of his involvement beyond making the tape (oh, & do you know what actually happened to that tape? I wish you'd played more of it on that far distant day at the Church House Bookshop.....)

I have a copy of the tape -- or, I should say, a tape because I have since heard the Church House Bookshop recording in which I say that we had to ask Christopher for more tapes...

Anyway, I have the first and included, with permission, a snippet of it on the 'bonus' disc to the 'Collector's Edition' [the 'Ring' tin] -- titled, like everything else, 'Microphones in Middle-earth' -- which, as you will have seen on my website, is currently being sold by Amazon for somewhere in the region of £200!

Originally Posted by davem

And, now I think of it, does the BBC still own the radio rights, or did they just negotiate for this one production?

I doubt it... Not that the present-day BBC would ever embark on a re-make. In fact I doubt they will ever re-broadcast the series on Radio 4. They wanted to broadcast it on their archive channel - Radio 7 (who only give minuscule token payments for repeats) - but abandoned the idea because of the copyrights involved - which would include those of the rights-holders. It is possible that the Estate don't even control the radio rights any longer.