Microphones in Middle-earth...the BBC Lord of the Rings

[davem]

Originally Posted by Hookbill the Goomba

Butterbur is dreadfully amusing in this episode. His voice has always stuck with me when reading the books, especially at these points, with the selling of the Pony and the discussions with Strider. But is it just me or does Strider say "We shall see" an awful lot?

I've always loved James Grout's turn as Butterbur - he never seems to get much of a mention in reviews, but his performance is wonderful - especially in the final episode where Gandalf & the Hobbits return to the Pony on their way home.

On the road to Weathertop we get Sam's rendition of Gilgalad's poem, me absolute favorite version. The tune fits well and the lines are rendered almost hauntingly, especially with the sound effects in the background from birds etc.

This is something I was going to bring up too - whenever I read the book I always hear Stephen Oliver's settings for the songs.

Glorfindel isn't great, I have to admit. Something about him in this version makes him seem constantly worried. But given the situation they are supposed to be in, I think I can forgive them this, however, because he never appears again, it's hard to know if this is supposed to be the character or simply a reaction

Its obviously difficult to introduce a character, have him appear for a few minutes, & then disappear for good. I suppose its easier to omit them altogether. At this point you have to introduce a new character - Bakshi went for an early intro of Legolas, Jackson chose Arwen, the adaptors of this production went for Glorfindel, & I'm glad he got a name check in at least one adaptation! I wonder if his sounding constantly worried was the actor's choice, the director's or the adaptors'?

Originally Posted by Brian Sibley

Not surprisingly, many people commented on what they see (or hear) as being weak or ineffectual sound-effects but, of course, 27 years ago (before digital radio and THX sound) they sounded a lot better...

That is not an excuse - just a fact! It is like watching an old black and white movie and saying that it's not as good because it isn't in colour or that the back projection effects weren't very convincing... Any work of art (and I think the radio LOTR is that, wherever and however flawed) has to be viewed - or heard - with some regard to when it was created...

I wonder if that's why I don't really have a problem with the sound effects - I heard this series back when it was first broadcast & so they sounded pretty much 'state of the art' to me. I think in a way when you listen to a radio series over & over you always kind of go back mentally to the first time you heard it.

I hope people won't be too outraged when I say I was very surprised to discover that the radio series was on YouTube and, whilst I love the fact that people are still discovering this series, I am sorry that it is out there is a form that disregards the copyright interests of a lot of people including the Tolkien estate, the dramatists, composer, musicians and actors or their estates.

As I was the one who originally posted the links to the You Tube LotR section I feel a bit guilty - though as I said I did it in all innocence & removed the links as soon as their illegality was pointed up. I can only say that I my own copies are perfectly legal, on both cassette & CD (the BBC CD set in the black & gold 'book' format is probably the nicest edition - if anyone's interested)

[Gwathagor]

I've seen that version in processing at the Wade Center and coveted it once or twice, mainly for the 14th CD. I own the boxed CD version with the Grey Havens illustration, which isn't quite as nice as the gold and black.

[Brian Sibley]

Originally Posted by davem

I've always loved James Grout's turn as Butterbur - he never seems to get much of a mention in reviews, but his performance is wonderful - especially in the final episode where Gandalf & the Hobbits return to the Pony on their way home.

I so agree. Of the smaller roles, my personal favourites are James Grout as Butterbur, John Bott as Farmer Maggot, Stephen Thorne as Treebeard and Peter Howell as Saruman. Obviously Saruman is not as 'developed' as in the films, but then we didn't make up quite so much stuff about him -- and we killed him off!!

Originally Posted by davem

As I was the one who originally posted the links to the You Tube LotR section I feel a bit guilty - though as I said I did it in all innocence & removed the links as soon as their illegality was pointed up. I can only say that I my own copies are perfectly legal, on both cassette & CD (the BBC CD set in the black & gold 'book' format is probably the nicest edition - if anyone's interested)

Nothing to feel guilty about! You behaved quite properly. As to the best set: I think it is the last one produced - digitally re-mastered and with the new prologues and epilogues with Ian Holm. BTW, as a trivia note for anyone with this version: the closing credits are read by --- me!

This version was also issued, for a while, in a round ring-shaped tin and had with it a bonus disc with a 70+ minute documentary entitled 'Microphones in Middle-earth' - written and presented by myself with Michael Bakewell, Jane Morgan, Bill Nighy, John McAndrew, Marion Diamond and several Rings fans.

What I wish was available is the original 26 episode version which truly reflects how I structured the series and how Michael Bakewell I dramatised it. I have it on personal cassettes, but the original masters were edited to make the 13 hour version and so no longer exist.

[Hookbill the Goomba]

A quick question for you, Mr Brian; were you involved in the BBC Radio adaptation of Tales from the Perilous Realm? I enjoyed those and felt that Bombadill was portrayed as well as could be expected, the voice did fit, I felt, and the performance was good. The Farmer Giles one still makes me laugh, especially Garm.

But, back to The Lord of the Rings...

Where the Radio version gets interesting is in the feeling of the surroundings. You apologised earlier for the sound effects, but I felt they worked perfectly. I assume it was the Radio phonix workshop or some such, but it seemed that the background noises was exquisitely executed. Although, the only criticism I ever bring is the Nazgul's horses sound a bit weird, not sure why.
The greatest achievement of the Radio production is how faithful it is. I suppose I am comparing it to the recent films (and the not so recent films), but still. I think a serial is the only way to do The Lord of the Rings justice, really. Too much material for a truly faithful film.

[Brian Sibley]

Originally Posted by Hookbill the Goomba

A quick question for you, Mr Brian; were you involved in the BBC Radio adaptation of Tales from the Perilous Realm? I enjoyed those and felt that Bombadill was portrayed as well as could be expected, the voice did fit, I felt, and the performance was good. The Farmer Giles one still makes me laugh, especially Garm.

Yes, I dramatised the six episodes (2 'Farmer Giles'; 2 'Bombadil'; 1 each, 'Smith of Wootton Major' and 'Leaf by Niggle'); in fact I also played the Giant in Farmer Giles and the dragon was played by Stephen (Treebeard) Thorne. The series was narrated by Michael (Gandalf) Hordern. It is available on cassette and CD.

Originally Posted by Hookbill the Goomba

But, back to The Lord of the Rings...

Where the Radio version gets interesting is in the feeling of the surroundings. You apologised earlier for the sound effects, but I felt they worked perfectly. I assume it was the Radio phonix workshop or some such, but it seemed that the background noises was exquisitely executed. Although, the only criticism I ever bring is the Nazgul's horses sound a bit weird, not sure why.
The greatest achievement of the Radio production is how faithful it is. I suppose I am comparing it to the recent films (and the not so recent films), but still. I think a serial is the only way to do The Lord of the Rings justice, really. Too much material for a truly faithful film.

I do hope that the fact that I'm reading this thread won't inhibit contributors too much, because I'm genuinely interested to read people's honest - uncensored! - thoughts and comments...

[Hookbill the Goomba]

Originally Posted by Brian Sibley

Yes, I dramatised the six episodes (2 'Farmer Giles'; 2 'Bombadil'; 1 each, 'Smith of Wootton Major' and 'Leaf by Niggle'); in fact I also played the Giant in Farmer Giles and the dragon was played by Stephen (Treebeard) Thorne. The series was narrated by Michael (Gandalf) Hordern. It is available on cassette and CD.

Yes, I've just found my long lost copy.

I have always had a great fondness for the dramatised versions. Probably because they were the only audio version I had for many years while I was still not such a great reader. This doesn't mean there aren't bits that annoy me (the Eagle's song in Return of the King is one thing I always skip), but I think I'll have to give them another good listen if I can find my old tapes...

[Brian Sibley]

Originally Posted by Hookbill the Goomba

Yes, I've just found my long lost copy.

I have always had a great fondness for the dramatised versions... This doesn't mean there aren't bits that annoy me (the Eagle's song in Return of the King is one thing I always skip)...

Yes...... I know what you mean!! Counter-tenor eagles... Strange! Maybe Jackson was right not to do talking birds; still, if he does have an involvement with 'The Hobbit'...

[William Cloud Hicklin]

One reason the BBC version is so successful for me is its willingness to make use of Tolkien's original text to as great an extent as practicable. Tolkien's prose is a significant factor in the spell he weaves, and it irks me no end that the scripts for the film adaptation of The Lord of the Rings, of all books, should have been written by people with such manifestly tin ears for Language.

Hmmmm- BTW, do you think we should invite Sauron the White to this thread, just to show him there's a 'cinderblock' we Purists do like?

[davem]

Originally Posted by Brian Sibley

Yes...... I know what you mean!! Counter-tenor eagles... Strange! Maybe Jackson was right not to do talking birds; still, if he does have an involvement with 'The Hobbit'...

No! I think that scene worked perfectly - inter-cutting the Eagle's song with Eowyn & Faramir, & then going straight into the Coronation.

Of course, the problem, again, is what, exactly, would an Eagle's voice sound like? Its fine to read the words on the page - you can accept a speaking/singing Eagle as easily as you accept a talking tree, but creating a convincing voice must be a real difficulty. I wonder if this isn't exactly the kind of thing Tolkien was thinking of when he said that the book was 'unsuitable for dramatic representation' - that there are things in the book which, given auditory or visual form, will not work - well, not for everybody.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Brian Sibley

As to the best set: I think it is the last one produced - digitally re-mastered and with the new prologues and epilogues with Ian Holm. BTW, as a trivia note for anyone with this version: the closing credits are read by --- me!

This version was also issued, for a while, in a round ring-shaped tin and had with it a bonus disc with a 70+ minute documentary entitled 'Microphones in Middle-earth' - written and presented by myself with Michael Bakewell, Jane Morgan, Bill Nighy, John McAndrew, Marion Diamond and several Rings fans.

I didn't know about that documentary Actually, I'd only just bought the gold & black set (for £80!!)) when that one came out, so I swallowed my disappointment & have now convinced myself that I have the best version..... Bet its not available seperately though, is it? i do have your 'Audio Portrait' set, & a tape of the Fired by the Ring documentary (with a bit of Oz Clarke's singing missing in the middle due to having to turn the tape over.....

What I wish was available is the original 26 episode version which truly reflects how I structured the series and how Michael Bakewell I dramatised it. I have it on personal cassettes, but the original masters were edited to make the 13 hour version and so no longer exist.

That's the version I'd like to have actually - I still half hear it while listening to the re-edited versions - at the 'cliff-hangers' - if you see what I mean. I can't believe they edited the originaltapes