Split Personality?

[MatthewM]

Originally Posted by alatar

Why? I never knew that you appointed me...

My comment towards you was pertaining to your remark on Boromir from book to film.

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

Since the books will always triumph in any discussion, any debate, any difference of opinion, we might as well all just shut up and go home right now.

Please do!

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

Regardless of your opinion, you cannot change reality. A book is one thing. A film is a different thing. In this case, the subject matter is the same, however, they are clearly not the same thing. And how is it that you speak "for the true Tolkien enthusiast". What is the litmus test for being "true"? I suspect I know the answer to that one. Were you elected or appointed to this position? Or perhaps self- appointed? And how did you determine that a "small majority" agreed with the Jackson films and me? Please show me the stats on this as many here would find them most illuminating.

Yeah, right, because your posts did not hint at anything doubting your belief in JRRT's work... (extreme sarcasm)

It is obvious that there are, here at least, few people who agree with your book bashing movie thumping opinions.

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

It is most interesting that cooler heads here and myself seem to be able to find some middle ground on these issues. But you come along and we go back to square one with the Defenders of the Holy Word denying even the possibility of value in the Jackson films.

Touching. Funny enough, I happen to love the films. In fact, they are my favorite movies of all time. I am just not about to defend them over the books, and the things/characters/events wrongly portrayed in the films deserve talking and complaining about. Again, keep your apples and your cinderblocks. You can use me as an example to prove your relentless point if you wish, I care not.

It's also rather funny how my post toward you was concerning your skewed opinions of Boromir, and not so much on your flawless movie talk.

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

As Alatar said - you prove my point for me. Thank you MatthewM.

You are very welcome, Sauron the White.

[Sauron the White]

from MatthewM

I happen to love the films. In fact, they are my favorite movies of all time. I am just not about to defend them over the books, and the things/characters/events wrongly portrayed in the films deserve talking and complaining about. Again, keep your apples and your cinderblocks. You can use me as an example to prove your relentless point if you wish, I care not.

Matthew - you are mistaken that I want you or anyone to defend one over the other. I am not picking the books over the films or the films over the books and I want nobody else to do that either. All I have asked for is one thing and only one thing: you employ your willing suspension of disbelief to aid in your appreciation and love of the book version of LOTR. That is great. Please also employ it when viewing the film version of LOTR. That is all I am asking.

[Quempel]

Dwarfs apparently, according to Aragorns qoute, also have high endurance. Is that not the main quality a long distance runner needs?

And you ask us to suspend our disbelief about the movies, yet are unwilling to suspend your own disbelief about Gimli.

[Sauron the White]

Quempel ... now you are aproaching wisdom. The only reason I brought up the entire Gimli running issue was to illustrate my point about willing suspension of disbelief and the necessity of being fair in its extension to BOTH THE BOOKS AND THE MOVIES. In doing so, I played Devils advocate and fought the fight to show how something in the books made little sense - at least to me based on my real world experience and knowledge. Knowledge which I believe Tolkien did not have.

I am more than willing to extend willing suspension of disbelief to the books. I have for the past 36 years of multiple readings. All I am asking is for the same courtesy for the films. I love both dearly. I really bothers me when I read the first page of the DENETHORS PLUNGE thread and I see the smugness, the ridicule, the "lets all pile on and show what a horses behind Jackson really is" attitude that comes in post after post. Oh sure, they will claim that its all in good fun. But only because its their favorite target.

ENDURANCE - yes runners have a special kind of it because they train for it. People who labor hard can also have endurance. It can also mean putting up with a lot of grief. Dwarves are described as a strong and hardy folk. There is nothing in the SILMARALLION or LOTR to indicate they prepared themselves to be ultra marathoners.

But that is not my point.

Does anyone out there see this?

[Quempel]

There is also nothing in the Sil or LoTR to say the peoples of middle earth were subject to our standards.

And I am rather wise already, thanks.

[littlemanpoet]

STW, you make much real world sense. Trouble is, we're talking about Middle Earth here. Gimli's famous run with Aragorn and Legolas is not the only instance in which Tolkien describes a Dwarf or Dwarves with such incredible running endurance. In The Hobbit, the Dwarves of the Iron Hills run a "forced march" trot all the way from the equivalent of the Aral Sea to Finland in (I believe) three days. That's a lot of miles. So Tolkien apparently intended Dwarves to be understood as capable of the kind of thing he describes.

That's all I have time for right now. I'll see to your previous post directed to me when time avails.

[Sauron the White]

Thanks for pointing that out. I will check it out.
Does anyone here get my higher point about double standards on these boards?

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

STW, you make much real world sense. Trouble is, we're talking about Middle Earth here. Gimli's famous run with Aragorn and Legolas is not the only instance in which Tolkien describes a Dwarf or Dwarves with such incredible running endurance. In The Hobbit, the Dwarves of the Iron Hills run a "forced march" trot all the way from the equivalent of the Aral Sea to Finland in (I believe) three days. That's a lot of miles. So Tolkien apparently intended Dwarves to be understood as capable of the kind of thing he describes.

That's all I have time for right now. I'll see to your previous post directed to me when time avails.

To my mind there's no reason why a Dwarf would not be able to run an exceptional long distance at speed, after all, they are not homo sapiens! It's no more odd to me than an Elf having exceptional long life or the ability to walk on snow (or custard ) lightly as the fact that they are different species explains a lot. I have more problems with accepting that the Dunedain could live for a few hundred years as that seems to be not compatible with the species.

Middle-earth of course has three species of 'human ape' - Men, Elves and Dwarves. At one point in prehistory the earth itself supported at least three species too - homo sapiens, neanderthals and homo erectus. We can accept that each of these had quirks and big differences, so why not accept these between Men, Elves and Dwarves? They are not all the same, biologically speaking.

[MatthewM]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

Please also employ it when viewing the film version of LOTR. That is all I am asking.

No.