The plants of middle earth - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Rumil · 07-10-2007, 01:08 PM

Hi all,

nice topic Alfirin, the Middle Earth herblore is rarely touched on apart from Athelas and Elanor.

as a total non-gardener these days (I killed off my last plant in the flat -must get another!) I wonder if you could all post links to pictures of the possible RealWorld(TM) equivalents of the Middle Earth plants? It would help!

Cheers,

Lalwendë · 07-10-2007, 02:25 PM

Alfirin you must get hold of the book Child mentions, it's really good - not only as a Tolkien book but because it has some great stuff about real world plants.

Tolkien was of course a very keen gardener. This was only intensified during WWII when he had to dig up much of his garden in order to grow veg - the Dig For Victory campaign. One of the many jobs he did around the house and garden at Northmoor Road was to put up a Trellis on the front fence for Edith, with some help from one of his sons (I think....Michael, but will have to look that up). Anyway, I was over at the house last year and while gazing at it suddenly realised - the trellis is still there! This is quite amazing as the house sold for somewhere around one million pounds not long ago and you'd think the first thing the new owner would do is to remove a very weather beaten old trellis, but no! Have to say you could see the owner pottering in his garage - he was a pensioner and had an ancient VW Golf so he certainly was not a Flash Harry. I hope that trellis is protected by law....

But anyway... story over....

One plant I think I can place is Athelas - I'm sure this is a combination drawn from both Comfrey and Mint. The latter of course is well known for releasing fumes in the form of menthol, but the latter is one I'm learning more about as I have too much of it in my own garden - it is a great plant for healing bruises, but it also has incredible properties as a fertiliser apparently, if steeped in a watering can! I've also discovered it has regenerative powers as mine has sprung up again from yearly death after the snails (ugh) bred in it.

As for trees with drooping flower stems - wisteria! The traditional variety has really tough stems with tree-like qualities and it would take the lifetime of an Elf in some cases to see the stuff flower! Grrr!

I am of course an overkeen gardener as davem will tell you - you currently cannot get round my garden due to all the pots in it...cannot resist new plants (especially mystery ones) and now all my seed grown ones are potted out too...

Alfirin · 07-10-2007, 07:07 PM

I think I've got you beat on obssesive gardening, Lalwende. One of my hobbies is taking the errant "weed seeds" that I find in bags of imported beans and spices that i purcase for cooking and planting the in pots, just so i can see what come up. (pots so they don't get out and spread all over the place). I current have amongs other things a pair of barrels cotaining assorted vetches, and a stump full of bur gourds, wild horned melons assorted african cucumber relatives and a smattering of wild oats. I had wild peas and wild soybeans earlier in the year too but the former have all been harvested and the latter were eaten by squirrels

As to the picture posting I'm afraid i'm not very good at computer functions and getting pictures posted is probably beyond my skills. If you give me a few days I can prably make a list of links to pictures of the plants being discussed and post that if that would be of any use.

I hand though of comfrey for Athelas. What a good idea it's in the daisy family so it would have longish leaves. I think the mintish qualities however are less like common mind and more like those of the more medicnal min realives like pennyroyal or horehound especally becuse Athelas is supposed to smell "wholesome" but not "sweet"

I suppose wisteria might cover some of the hanging white flowers though I'm more used to thinking of that as a vine than a tree and it doesn't really have an odor.

I also have a new one the undietified vine bearing star shaped white flowers which frodo sees growing on the decaptated statue at the crossroads in Ithiilien. My bet its white flowered cypress vine (Imponomea qualicomit) in the morning glory family.

Lalwendë · 07-11-2007, 06:29 AM

NOt sure where you are, but most Wisteria grown in the UK is strongly scented! This is the lilac flowered variety - grow more than two or three stems of it and it could pull your house down it's so woody. You get some unusual varieties though and there is one in a front garden near my house that has indeed been trained into a tree! A White flowered, non-scented one - this year is the first time it has flowered.

Now there's a kind of Eastern balm or sage that could also be a good candidate for Athelas....but I can't locate the name yet....

EDIT - Found! What I was thinking of was Tulasi or Holy Basil, as used in the Ayurvedic tradition of medicine. Not sure about the leaf shapes but the traditions make it sound appropriate.

07-10-2007, 01:08 PM	#1
Rumil Sage & Onions Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Britain Posts: 894	Herbology Hi all, nice topic Alfirin, the Middle Earth herblore is rarely touched on apart from Athelas and Elanor. as a total non-gardener these days (I killed off my last plant in the flat -must get another!) I wonder if you could all post links to pictures of the possible RealWorld(TM) equivalents of the Middle Earth plants? It would help! Cheers, __________________ Rumil of Coedhirion

07-10-2007, 02:25 PM	#2
Lalwendë A Mere Boggart Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: under the bed Posts: 4,737	Alfirin you must get hold of the book Child mentions, it's really good - not only as a Tolkien book but because it has some great stuff about real world plants. Tolkien was of course a very keen gardener. This was only intensified during WWII when he had to dig up much of his garden in order to grow veg - the Dig For Victory campaign. One of the many jobs he did around the house and garden at Northmoor Road was to put up a Trellis on the front fence for Edith, with some help from one of his sons (I think....Michael, but will have to look that up). Anyway, I was over at the house last year and while gazing at it suddenly realised - the trellis is still there! This is quite amazing as the house sold for somewhere around one million pounds not long ago and you'd think the first thing the new owner would do is to remove a very weather beaten old trellis, but no! Have to say you could see the owner pottering in his garage - he was a pensioner and had an ancient VW Golf so he certainly was not a Flash Harry. I hope that trellis is protected by law.... But anyway... story over.... One plant I think I can place is Athelas - I'm sure this is a combination drawn from both Comfrey and Mint. The latter of course is well known for releasing fumes in the form of menthol, but the latter is one I'm learning more about as I have too much of it in my own garden - it is a great plant for healing bruises, but it also has incredible properties as a fertiliser apparently, if steeped in a watering can! I've also discovered it has regenerative powers as mine has sprung up again from yearly death after the snails (ugh) bred in it. As for trees with drooping flower stems - wisteria! The traditional variety has really tough stems with tree-like qualities and it would take the lifetime of an Elf in some cases to see the stuff flower! Grrr! I am of course an overkeen gardener as davem will tell you - you currently cannot get round my garden due to all the pots in it...cannot resist new plants (especially mystery ones) and now all my seed grown ones are potted out too... __________________ Gordon's alive!

07-11-2007, 06:29 AM	#4
Lalwendë A Mere Boggart Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: under the bed Posts: 4,737	NOt sure where you are, but most Wisteria grown in the UK is strongly scented! This is the lilac flowered variety - grow more than two or three stems of it and it could pull your house down it's so woody. You get some unusual varieties though and there is one in a front garden near my house that has indeed been trained into a tree! A White flowered, non-scented one - this year is the first time it has flowered. Now there's a kind of Eastern balm or sage that could also be a good candidate for Athelas....but I can't locate the name yet.... EDIT - Found! What I was thinking of was Tulasi or Holy Basil, as used in the Ayurvedic tradition of medicine. Not sure about the leaf shapes but the traditions make it sound appropriate. __________________ Gordon's alive! Last edited by Lalwendë; 07-11-2007 at 06:43 AM.

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07-10-2007, 07:07 PM	#3
Alfirin Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 435	I think I've got you beat on obssesive gardening, Lalwende. One of my hobbies is taking the errant "weed seeds" that I find in bags of imported beans and spices that i purcase for cooking and planting the in pots, just so i can see what come up. (pots so they don't get out and spread all over the place). I current have amongs other things a pair of barrels cotaining assorted vetches, and a stump full of bur gourds, wild horned melons assorted african cucumber relatives and a smattering of wild oats. I had wild peas and wild soybeans earlier in the year too but the former have all been harvested and the latter were eaten by squirrels As to the picture posting I'm afraid i'm not very good at computer functions and getting pictures posted is probably beyond my skills. If you give me a few days I can prably make a list of links to pictures of the plants being discussed and post that if that would be of any use. I hand though of comfrey for Athelas. What a good idea it's in the daisy family so it would have longish leaves. I think the mintish qualities however are less like common mind and more like those of the more medicnal min realives like pennyroyal or horehound especally becuse Athelas is supposed to smell "wholesome" but not "sweet" I suppose wisteria might cover some of the hanging white flowers though I'm more used to thinking of that as a vine than a tree and it doesn't really have an odor. I also have a new one the undietified vine bearing star shaped white flowers which frodo sees growing on the decaptated statue at the crossroads in Ithiilien. My bet its white flowered cypress vine (Imponomea qualicomit) in the morning glory family.