Gimli the Greatest Being in Middle Earth!

[aragornreborn]

I found this in someone else's post who was quoting from UT, but it struck me as quite interesting.

the Eldar said that the light of the Two Trees, Laurelin and Telperion, had been snared in [Galadriel's] tresses. Many thought that this saying first gave to Fëanor the thought of imprisoning and blending the light of the Trees that later took shape in his hands as the Silmarils. For Fëanor beheld the hair of Galadriel with wonder and delight. He begged three times for a tress, but Galadriel would not give him even one hair. These two kinfolk, the greatest of the Eldar in Valinor, were unfriends for ever.

Feanor, who some consider the greatest elf in ME (I see you Luthien and Fingolfin people coming to get me. For the record, I go for Legolas [and, no, that's not for looks], but I'm getting off topic of my own topic), asked three times and did not receive a single hair. Gimli, a dwarf in a very elves-hate-dwarves-and-dwarves-hate-elves time period, asked for a single hair and received three. What do you all think? Just why is Gimli so special? Or is he? The Battle of Wits has begun.

[Arvedui III]

Really cool Topic. I love Gimli so my natural instint is to say, yes Gimli is the specialest(I really need to learn how to spell) person in ME EVER and Galadriel was TOTALLY in love with him. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] But somehow...
I think that Galadriel thought it was the end of day so what the heck, give the dwarf what he wants. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Lobelia]

Good question! I noticed this myself. Well, Feanor, brilliant or not, was a nutter, let's face it! If you were asked for something by this loony character breathing down your neck and by someone who had been unexpectedly chivalrous and gallant, to whom who would you give your hair? Both were craftsmen, but at least Gimli told her what he had in mind to make and it was a friendship thing. Who knows that Feanor would have done with his gift?

[Inziladun]

I would think Gimli got what he asked for because of his surprising grace at that moment. A "greedy" dwarf's refusal of a gift had to say a lot about his growth of character. Galadriel herself commanded him to name something he wanted anyway, so when he did so how indeed could she refuse him?

[MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie]

Well, Galadriel and the other elves could see that dwarves can be surprisingly more noble and greater than they thought. Obviously Galadriel offered a gift in token of her appreciation and on behalf of the appreciation of the other elves for the sake of friendship as a result of Gimli. I do not think Galadriel thought Gimli would ask for this but as Inziladun said, how could she refuse once she commanded him. Who knows if she would have given them (or at least one) to Gimli had he asked on his own. And also, this gift was a show of respect, for Gimli and maybe for the race of dwarves.

[Adanadhel]

hmmmm,

I wonder if it is because of the nature with which Gimli asked... he had no idea how precious the gift he was asking for was. He was aking out of respect and friendship.

If I understand the request of Feanor, he seemed to be asking out of greed (as always)..

btw, I do not recall this exchange between Feanor and Galadriel - can you post a more specific referrence from UT please? (i.e. chapter) I have looked in "The HIstory of Galadriel and Celeborn", but can't find it...

[Angry Hill Troll]

in reply to Adanadhel's question: the quote is right at the beginning (about the 3rd page) of the History of Galadriel and Celeborn section of UT (p. 241 of my book).

I think that's a really neat quote as well--once you read it it puts an apparently small event in LOTR in a whole new light.

As for why Gimli got Galadriel's hair and Fëanor didn´t...

In addition to the reasons pointed out already, another factor was that Galadriel was much wiser by the time she met Gimli. She had just refused Frodo's offer of the Ring, which as Tolkien points out in the same essay, would have been impossible in her youth. Perhaps Galadriel had realized that snubbing Fëanor had only provoked his worst tendencies, and that her gift to Gimli might do much to repair the rift between elves and dwarves. (Not to imply that Gimli was undeserving!) [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

BTW, there is a Fanfiction "Tales of Tol Eressëa" which I greatly enjoyed, which among other things deals with the whole Galadriel-Fëanor hair incident.

[Dain]

Simple: elf-women can't resist Dwarves. It gets boring looking at pretty-boy elves for millenia, and when they meet a real Dwarf, they see what they've been missing. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Seriously, though, I think it was the manner of his asking, she was surprised and flattered and probably caught of-guard a bit, which is a very uncommon experience for Galadriel. Feanor was just a creep, on the other hand, and she had good sense to refuse him. Gimli is the greatest!

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

I think that Galadriel just liked Gimli more than she had Fëanor. He wanted her hair, not for his own glory, or so that he could use it to create new and better gems, but because he genuinely appreciated its inherent beauty. Also Gimli was a member of the Fellowship of the Ring, in whom were invested all the hopes of the Wise; people who were unselfishly risking their lives for the common good. Then there's the fact that Gimli is such a smooth operator:

'There is nothing, Lady Galadriel, ' said Gimli, bowing low and stammering. 'Nothing, unless it might be - unless it is permitted to ask, nay to name a single strand of your hair, which surpasses the gold of the earth as the stars surpass the gems of the mine. I do not ask for such a gift. But you commanded me to name my desire.'

Able to choose any gift that the Lord and Lady of Lórien could bestow, he asked only for a single hair from Galadriel's head. What woman could resist that sort of honest flattery? And he certainly has a silver tongue, the suave devil.

Of Galadriel's relationship with Fëanor Tolkien says:

From her earliest years she had a marvellous gift of insight into the minds of others, but judged them with mercy and understanding, and she withheld her goodwill from none save only Fëanor. In him she perceived a darkness that she hated and feared, though she did not perceive that the shadow of the same evil had fallen upon the minds of all the Noldor, and upon her own.

(Italics my own)

Perhaps by this last telling phrase Tolkien means to imply that Fëanor's difficulty in getting on with people might not have been the only reason for Galadriel's refusal of his request. Whether she knew it or no, she too had been tainted by the malice of Melkor. Could it be that it was the shadow of his deceits that prompted her disdain?

[ February 19, 2003: Message edited by: Squatter of Amon Rudh ]

[Inderjit Sanghera]

I just don't think Galadriel would've ever given Feanor a tress of her hair, however nicely he asked. She hated him alone, of all the Noldor.

As for giving Gimli a tress, it was problably a combination of the fact that she commanded him to ask for a present, he aksed politely, and of course who can forget (or resist) that sexy Dwarven charm.....,

[ February 19, 2003: Message edited by: Inderjit Sanghera ]

[Dondagnirion]

Galadriel specifically states that she gave it to Gimli because of the way he asked, adding the fact that she had commanded him to ask for what he wanted as an afterthought. It was also obvious that Gimli had a gigantic crush on Galadriel (who can really blame him?), this was probably very flattering for Galadriel since Dwarven men are usually only interested in their own kind. I think it was a combination of these factors that led Galadriel to give Gimli her hair.

As for the subject of why she gave none to Faenor it says in UT not only that they were unfriends forever but it goes on to say that she had to some degree forseen that Faenor would eventually lead to the Noldor to ruin if he were allowed to. This would obvisously not dispose her to giving much of anything to Faenor, plus there is the previously stated fact that he was a very greedy and creepy dude.
P.S. I will post the part where Galadriel says specifically why she gave Gimli the hair later today I am at school right now and do not have the book on me.
Dondagnirion
"There is no spoon."

[aragornreborn]

I agree with everyone's reasons here (Galadriel commanding him to make a request, healing the rift between the dwarves and elves, and Gimli's charm), but I was just wondering if there was something singularly special about Gimli himself. As I was thinking about this topic some more, I though about the part in the appendices of ROTK where it says,

"We have heard that Legolas took Gimli Gloin's son with him [to Aman] because of their great friendship, greater than any that has been between Elf and Dwarf. If this is true, then it is strange indeed: that a Dwarf should be willing to leave Middle-earth for any love, or that the Eldar should receive him, or that the Lords of the West should permit it. But it is said that Gimli went also out of desire to see again the beauty of Galadriel; and it may be that she, being mighty among the Eldar, obtained this grace for him. More can not be said of this matter."

Now, despite the fact that are a whole ton of ifs and mays in there, if we whould believe that as true, that is an amazing thing. First, we learn that Gimli forged a friendship with Legolas greater than any between Dwarf and Elf (and this was not in the age when they invited each other over for tea, if you know what I mean). Second, we learn that Gimli, a Dwarf, abandoned Middle-earth. No smal feat for a Dwarf. Third, we know that, yes, he thinks Galadriel is really beautiful. So, it's not too hard to imagine him leaving ME. But, it seems incredible that he was permitted to enter Aman. Now, I've only read the Silmarillion once, but if my memory serves me right, only one non-elf (or non-spirit) ever entered Aman, and that was a man. A man who bore a Silmaril, if I remember right. If not, it was an important man, nevertheless. So, it seems incredible that the Valar would accept a Dwarf into an Elf-haven merely because an two Elves (one of whom wasn't in their good graces for quite some time) asked them. Gimli must be really special. But, why? I read more in the appendices and it could sound like Gimli single-handedly (on the Dwarf end of things) restored the kinship between Elves and Dwarves. So, maybe Aule got him in with Galadriel and Legolas' help. I don't know. Any more thoughts?

[Novlamothien]

Intresting topic! I really don't have anything to add but a small correction. Aragornreborn, You are right, a man did enter Aman, his name was Earendil. But didn't the three Ringbearers, Frodo, Sam and Bilbo enter Aman too? Or was that the Lost Isle?

Namarie
Erin

[aragornreborn]

Ah, good point, how could I forget them! Well, they were ringbearers, so that's their claim to fame.

[yavanna II]

hey, i'm only 13, but from what i've read, earendil was half-man, half-elf. anyway he bore a silmaril. bilbo & frodo were ringbearers, so maybe the valar accepted them. but for gimli... just two elves stood up for him, but maybe aule did, being the father of dwarves. maybe he was tolerated by the vanyar & noldor...

any more ideas? [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

[pandora]

Perhaps the Valar felt that it was time a Dwarf was allowed in since the Elves, Men, and even Hobbits had seen the Blessed Lands. Given how much effort the Dwarfs had put into fighting Morgoth and his servants it might have seemed just to allow in one, particularly one so involved in the fight against Sauron. As well as the other reasons given in the quote above.

I wonder what Gimli's time there was like for him and how long he was given.

[Lyta_Underhill]

You are right, a man did enter Aman, his name was Earendil. But didn't the three Ringbearers, Frodo, Sam and Bilbo enter Aman too? Or was that the Lost Isle?

Earendil did enter Aman, and he bore a Silmaril, but he was a half-elf, the son of Tuor and Idril Celebrindal, and he was not permitted to dwell there. Tuor, I believe, was given the grace of the Valar and alone among the race of (full-blooded) Men was counted among the Eldar. I believe he sailed West with Idril and came to Aman. Frodo, Sam and Bilbo, as I understand it, dwelt on Tol Eressea and not in Aman. That's the best my memory can do at the moment! Hope it helps! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Cheers,
Lyta

[Eol Telemnar]

Going to the original statement, I don't think he's the greatest being in middle earth! I bet there are a lot of good warriors in middle earth! (Some might dissagree with me, But o'well, just don't post if it's about you disagreing with mine!

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

I don't think that the suggestion is either entirely serious or based on Gimli's fighting ability alone. Perhaps to call him the greatest Dwarf there ever was would be a little less hyperbolic, although he is a great character.