Female Nazgûl???

[Anguirel]

Sauron is sending his sexist minions to interfere with the cut and thrust of debate!

Seriously, old chap, I see your point, and you make it forcibly, but the fact remains that Eowyn killed him. Let's say one was fighting an enchanted rhinoceros that no one can hurt. Someone sticks a needle in it and *wham*! Behold! It's vulnerable. But still the small matter remains of killing an angry rhinoceros. It is this deed that Eowyn should be credited with.

As for the bit about her slaying herself with fear, about only Glorfindel, Gandalf et al being able to stand up to the King-the fearless Dernhelm of the books doesn't support your view-

"Begone, foul dwimmerlaik, Lord of Carrion!"

Even after her wound, she is ailing because the pulp is being beaten out of her-not in the slightest because she is frightened. She is berserk, as Theoden was, as her brother is later.

And what's more, there is no essential link between power and fear. Earnur, a far less powerful figure than the Witch King, never shirked to challenge him. Nor are the powerful necessarily the brave-Gandalf revealed some unease about facing the Lord of the Nazgul in conversation with Denethor. There is simply no correlation. Just because Eowyn is young, mortal, and, most damningly, female, does not mean she by definition lacks courage. Indeed, courage born out of desperation is her strongest weapon.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

Seriously, old chap, I see your point, and you make it forcibly, but the fact remains that Eowyn killed him. Let's say one was fighting an enchanted rhinoceros that no one can hurt. Someone sticks a needle in it and *wham*! Behold! It's vulnerable. But still the small matter remains of killing an angry rhinoceros. It is this deed that Eowyn should be credited with.

But Merry's strike made it possible for Eowyn to dispatch the WK - it wasn't simply that Merry showed the WK was vulnerable - he wasn't vulnerable until Merry stabbed him. If Eowyn had stabbed him first nothing woulld have happened. Only the Barrow blade (wound about with spells for the bane of Mordor) could have made him vulnerable to Eowyn's blow. So, they both killed him. It was equivalent to Merry cutting off his bullet proof vest so that Eowyn sould shoot him. I don't see why she should get all the glory

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

You know when you misread something that someone else posts? Like when I thought Anguirel was talking about Sauron's sexiest minions?

But I seem to have lost my way: why are we talking about Eowyn?

[Anguirel]

Goodness knows. Anyway, ah, female Nazgul. Um...in canon, probably unlikely. However, remember that Numenorean kings did allow their daughters to succeed them if they had no sons (eg Tar-Palantir succeeded by Tar-Miriel) so, especially among the Black Numenorean Nazgul, such a contingency is not entirely impossible...

Originally Posted by davem

But Merry's strike made it possible for Eowyn to dispatch the WK - it wasn't simply that Merry showed the WK was vulnerable - he wasn't vulnerable until Merry stabbed him. If Eowyn had stabbed him first nothing woulld have happened. Only the Barrow blade (wound about with spells for the bane of Mordor) could have made him vulnerable to Eowyn's blow. So, they both killed him. It was equivalent to Merry cutting off his bullet proof vest so that Eowyn sould shoot him. I don't see why she should get all the glory

I suppose Eowyn deserved credit for being prepared to be killed in the futile attempt to defend the dying Theoden. The WK was for a moment distracted so that Merry could land a blow. I would have preferred a confrontation between the WK and Gandalf all the same, a real contest. Being killed by a Hobbit and a Women makes a mockery of the WK as Sauron's greatest servant in a way.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Mansun

I suppose Eowyn deserved credit for being prepared to be killed in the futile attempt to defend the dying Theoden. The WK was for a moment distracted so that Merry could land a blow. I would have preferred a confrontation between the WK and Gandalf all the same, a real contest. Being killed by a Hobbit and a Women makes a mockery of the WK as Sauron's greatest servant in a way.

I suspect that was Tolkien's point.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Even the smallest person...

[Lalwendë]

I'm thinking aloud here...

I was wondering about how many of the Nazgul could have originated from Numenor. It is said that three were Numenorean Lords, which makes a lot of sense. Men were gifted with Death by Eru, and many Numenoreans disliked this, so to tempt them with a ring offering eternal life would be more likely to result in their accepting the gift. If some of the Ringwraiths were "sorcerors", could they have also been Numenorean in origin? These could have been drawn from the ranks of those who were engaged in establishing and running temples in Numenor, which was seen as wrong. "Sorceror" certainly seems to be a pejorative term in Middle Earth, something much lower than a wizard, so it hints at figures who wished to have greater powers; such people would be likely to be tempted by one of the Rings too?

[Anguirel]

Not to mention Black Numenoreans, who openly worshipped Sauron, like the Mouth of Sauron and Herumor. I wonder if they would be included among the Numenorean Lords, though.