Is forum losing members?

[Amrod the Hunter]

When I look at member list,I see that many members didn't join quite a while.Also,many members make few posts and disappear.
Why is this happening?Are people losing interest for discusions,or maybe Tolkien is losing popularity?I know some people joined because of movies and disapeared,but many members that have been here for some time have left.
This forum is realy good-it has great topics,it's intelectual and it has many qualities.
But,I think that we should find a way to keep the new members here
What are your opinions and sugestions about that.
(If there was a same topic here,say,but please continue this thread,I want to hear opinions of this members that are here now)

[Anguirel]

Well, I've lurked here for two or three years. I registered purely so that I could congratulate davem and Lalwende. But I felt it would be ungrateful to abandon a place which had given me so much enjoyment, so I decided to stay...

Perhaps encouraging more Downer marriages would bring more corpses shambling here? I don't suppose it would be that difficult to arrange six or so...

[Formendacil]

Well, has there been a big, block-buster Tolkien movie in theatres in the past little while, attracting the attention of the ignorant and curious, or fall-away?

I thought not.

With nothing huge like the movies to attract the interest of fallen-away Tolkien fans, or to induct those who have never been a part of the culture, you can't really expect the levels of those joining a Tolkien-related fansite to remain as high as they did when there was such a thing.

Most of what you get now is going to be your normal, devoted fans only just discovering the site, or only just deciding they need the similarly crazy companionship. Members like myself, for instance...

[Tigerlily Gamgee]

Well, I know that I, speaking for myself, do not post quite as much because I got discussed out my first year here. After a while the same discussions were being started and I had no more to say about them (and then there was the lapse of a few months that the boards wouldn't let me sign in). Plus, the books are not fresh in my mind anymore, so I don't feel "learned" enough at the moment to really discuss things to deeply. I also run my own site now, which takes up a lot of my time, because I have to play the role of moderator over there... and I'm working two jobs in real life (and still hardly scraping by *kicks economy*). When I get back to reading the books again I'm sure I'll join back in more. But, there are still many people who are here who I met and really enjoy, so I don't plan on going anywhere. This was the first board I came to when I read the books for the first time, so I plan on staying.
I'm up for a Barrow Downs wedding... who wants to get married?

[Snowdog]

Marriage... I'm against it.

I always liked Barrow Downs for the fact that the name wasn't a subject covered in the PJ movies, so it always felt more 'booklike' to me. It is the way of things on the internet, where popularity waxes and wanes depending on whats popular at the time. This is happening to pretty much all Tolkien sites.

[Amrod the Hunter]

Originally Posted by Snowdog

I always liked Barrow Downs for the fact that the name wasn't a subject covered in the PJ movies, so it always felt more 'booklike' to me. It is the way of things on the internet, where popularity waxes and wanes depending on whats popular at the time. This is happening to pretty much all Tolkien sites.

Yeah,I think the same.But people who only came here because the movies were popular,didn't stay when something new became popular.But still,I think that we should encourage new users and make them a friendly welcome,so they feel comfortable and stay.Because it will become boring if only a few users participates in the discusions.

[Ainaserkewen]

I think I brought something like this up last year but got shot down royally because I was being unmotivating...

I think we need something to happen. A marriage would be nice, especially if it were right here on the site (I wonder if that's legal anywhere?) but then it wouldn't be very Tolkien-like. But we can look forward to the Anniversary party next month, that is always so much fun.

Or maybe all of us who are interested could come up with a new game or t-shirt or contest or something fun to do thats brand new and attracts the quitters back.

[Imladris]

All things run their course. The flowers blossom in the spring and die in the winter -- but spring always comes back around again. It's the way the world works: things live, continue, die...

Including Tolkien.

[Lindolirian]

First off, we're in our traditional spring slump of attendance. Most people have too much going on in the real world as compared to summer (students on break) or the holidays (which used to include the release of the movies). Secondly, as Formendacil brought up, a lot of the "Movie Members" who registered just to talk about the movies have run out of things to talk about and seem to be slowly dwindling out. Not to discount those who come for the movies and end up discussing the books; we have plenty of those. And lastly BW might be cleaning up old unused accounts, resulting in a lower number of registered posters.
Like Ainasaid, the Barrow-Downs Birthday Party next month will wake things up a bit as will summer with people having more free time.

[AbercrombieOfRohan]

Just out of curiousity, why do a lot of members have their last activity as being in the year 1969? For instance Arathlithiel, s/he was reportedly last on BD on Dec. 31, 1969. Is it because of the great switch?

[mormegil]

Well I'm a long time Tolkien fan (pre-movie) and I have been frequenting this site for a couple of years now but I guess I always went to the quizes and didn't notice the forum. I guess I never looked that low on the page. I think it needs a bit more of a predominant spot on the site to attract new members. I am thouroughly loving the discussions I've been engaged in and hope to add some insightful comments on occasion as well.

[mark12_30]

Originally Posted by AbercrombieOfRohan

Just out of curiousity, why do a lot of members have their last activity as being in the year 1969? ... Is it because of the great switch?

Yes. That is essentially Unix Zero time: UNIX time began Jan 1, 1970.

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by Lindo

First off, we're in our traditional spring slump of attendance.

It's summer, in my (and Nilp's) case. There are a lot of things to do like going to youth camps...not to mention actually enjoying sleeping all day or being a couch potato. Yes, I'm sorry. I'll be reading TTT now and ketchup-ing (to steal Helen's idea) on CbC.

As for marriage...how about waiting for around ten years?

[Morsul the Dark]

I myself am limited to exposure to this site seeing as my only link is at the public library which I find may soon also be extinguished

I just dont have time to come but mind you at work i do carriages, which is when my LOTR ponderings trully come to life and I always say I must bring that up on the downs... sadly I never remember by the time I get here... and even today I am in fact supposed to be working on a report so again I must leave

[piosenniel]

Everyone please come to this year's celebration of the Barrow-Downs' birthday.

See HERE.

~*~ Pio

[*Varda*]

I confess to being one of those members that just kind of...drifted away. I can't even remember why I did so. But now I'm back, most likely, even if on a kind of on/off basis and hoping that most of the faces who were here when I was are still around!

I don't really understand how marriages will help, although I do remember them being the big thing in the chatroom a few years ago.

But I agree that members will be falling away because the movies have finished - the surge of fangirls will have eased off a bit (which I personally consider a very good thing.) As for new members that have joined and you want to keep here, I don't really know how to go about that...just be friendly and chatty and make them WANT to be here.

~ Varda

[Alkanoonion]

I once made an obituary list of all the members, who ever joined the Downs well over 5000. the great number was due to many members having more than one username having lost, forgotten or wanting to use a new pseudonym.

I think that with the arrival of the movies that many younger people discovered the great world of ME but as with many young adults attention is quickly diverted to new areas.

[starkat]

Unfortunately I'm one of the members who are not arround very much. I'm a moderator on a discussion board for the Chronicles of Narnia movie and things are picking up, so something had to give. I did enjoy hanging around here even though I didn't post much.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by *Varda*

I
As for new members that have joined and you want to keep here, I don't really know how to go about that...just be friendly and chatty and make them WANT to be here.

~ Varda

Chattiness is rather frowned on alas.............

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Chattiness is rather frowned on alas.............

I often find myself wishing that there were a section on the BD where random off topic chattiness was welcome, other than a chatroom, that is. There are some of of us who tend to like mulling over an answer before posting. And chatroom is no place for ents.

The garden theme that was flourishing in the Coming of Age thread was a nice read for me. Sometimes it is a pleasure to socialize with other 'Tolkienites' about every day things, and to realize that we have an common appreciation for other things as well.

[Legolas]

Originally Posted by mark12_30

Yes. That is essentially Unix Zero time: UNIX time began Jan 1, 1970.

Correct. All users with '12-31-1969' as their join date are users who created their accounts prior to the forum software switch done February '04. Also, if you look at the member list, it lists the date each member visited last; those that haven't visited since the switch have that same date listed.

[Carlas]

I for one came here because of both the movies and the books, but stayed for the amazing book discussions (though I rarely took part) and RPGs. I have drifted away though, probably like many other people because I have just been so busy. Things like family, friends, highschool...boys , just seem to pile up and I found I spent less and less time on the Downs.

I don't think it's a bad thing that there are less members however, because at one point (about a three year long point) the Downs seemed to be way too crowded. Im sure it'll be nice to have a bit more space, and less "Do Balrogs have wings?" type boards.

[VanimaEdhel]

To be honest, one of the reasons I was driven off was because of the decidedly - erm - chatty nature this forum began to take. It also sometimes became painful to read other people's posts, in my case. I think I disappeared around the time the third movie came out, when that last wave of Legolasses popped up, ready for one more round in the ring with us fangirl fighters. I realize that was about a year and a half ago, but I just haven't had the motivation to come in and catch up.

I do visit the chat every now and again, and sometimes I see people I know. Mostly it's just mindless banter, though.

If I remember correctly, around the time that Return of the King was released in the theaters, there was a lot of hissy arguments being started on here between two or so posters. Fighting is the one thing that will undoubtedly drive me off of a board, no matter what. I just can't for the life of me discern the cause for board tiffs - even though they seem to be rampant in all forums. People that don't even know each other but who share a common love fighting over something as innocuous as a specific interpretation of a word just gets to me.

I do frequent another board now - non-Tolkien related. I am still a Tolkien fan and reread his works in my off-time. That's another thing: "free time" was practically non-existent for me this year. Between academics, college essays, various theatrical endeavors, and sleeping, I really did not come online at all. I was spending fifteen or sixteen hours a day at my school, and when I got home, all I wanted to do was sleep, eat breakfast, and head out the next day.

When I go to college next year, I hope to have more free time to return to the boards. Coming on here today - though granted nothing could upset me today - just feels so great, I want to make it more of a habit. When I'm not working this summer, I'll also try to come on.

[Arwen Imladris]

Yes, I'm afraid I'm also one of those members that has sort of ghosted away. I do still drop by occasionally, but I generally read much more than I post. I am in constant fear of being repremanded for saying something that has already been said! So I try and keep my mouth closed and let people think I'm an idiot instead of opening it and leaving everyone with no doubt of my lack of intelligence. I am still deeply interested in Tolkien, and am currently still working my way through some of the HoME books. I have a lot to learn, but I have learned a lot reading the posts here.

Personally, I like forums with few members. I think that this forum has staying power. Another forum that I used to be on had an administrator type who was easily swayed by the newest fads. The forum quickly switched from a purely LOTR forum, to one devoted to Harry Potter. That is one of the reasons that I left it. Now that I have left it, I hope to spend more time here, where people are truely devoted to Tolkien. This forum has been around since before the movies, and it will last long after the movies are considered out-of-date.

By the way, I'm single.

[VanimaEdhel]

Arwen! A name I recognize - you know, it's amazing how many new members that I've just never met before are around here now.

How, may I ask, did a purely Lord of the Rings forum become one devoted entirely to Harry Potter? But, I suppose that's a question for another thread...

I agree - it's gotten to the point that I have missed so much in conversation, I don't know what has already been said or what points have been made. Also, the new forum I go to has very few language restrictions (they just ask that you don't swear in the title of the thread...and don't use derogatory language towards one another - and they hardly even enforce those rules), so when I do come in here to post, I have to be very careful how I type. My typed dialogue is far more "colorful", shall we say, at the moment than my spoken. It is actually interesting - I have to proofread all of these posts far more than I ever had to when I was on here, simply because I'm afraid of slipping up and putting in some four-letter word when I did not even mean for it to be there.

Again, what I'm now hoping to do is wander over to the Role-Playing Forum - maybe even just to the Shire to get my feet wet again (I don't know, I'll see). Maybe I'll try to jump into one of the Inns and see how it goes before I do anything else. My fear of failure is what is preventing me from just diving right back in. At this time of day, my other Forum is pretty abandoned (people at work and the like), so I have time to poke my nose in here and see what's going on.

[Balin999]

Hm I guess I am one of the people who somewhat drifted away.
I was a very active member from may 2000 'till summer 2001, then I was inactive for a long time, then I occasionally dropped by, and I guess this here is my second post for at least a year.
I think the general reason for people stopping posting regularly is that after some time you have discussed all the topics that you found interesting, and therefore you have to wait until something else comes up. On the other hand, people also have a life to live, and therefore get other interests, which doesn't mean that they don't enjoy Tolkien or the Downs anymore.
I've always enjoyed this site, and I have had great fun discussing this or that, or participating in a quiz or whatever. And I guess that won't change for a long time.
Even if the number of members I know decreases from year to year, as is the case


Btw, is burrahobbit still around?

[Parmawen]

Well...I suppose I am considered a "newbie" here, but I just wanted to say that one of the best things about this site is how closely knit it is! It's okay if it only ends up having less members, because the members who keep on posting will get even more say and we can have even more discussions. Of course, new people joining always keep the place fresh with new opinions as well. But on the bright side, the people who are left are all true Tolkien fans and really happy to be here (I'm assuming!)

This might not be the right place, but I'm horribly curious, and saw a comment above about this...The BarrowWight's birthday? How was it? And will there be more? I'm so upset that I missed it and I don't think I can wait until next May for one...perhaps the other Downer's have some upcoming?!?

[Encaitare]

Parmawen, the party in May was for the BarrowDowns' birthday -- the website itself. Although I'm sure the Barrow Wight would appreciate a birthday greeting when his b-day rolls around in July.

[MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie]

Wow, I'm surprised that my account is still active (Thanks BW for not deleting). I had checked up on it months ago, at different times, and was just as suprised. Well, I had planned on getting back up on things.

When I first went to college, I had (unintentionally) stopped going here, and evertime I had come back, I felt like I was too unfamiliar with things to post. So, now it's summer, and I plan on re-reading the books and catching up on things.

I had also planned on donating to this site, which I haven't done yet, and I'm sorry and ashamed for.....something which I also plan on doing.

It's strange coming back here, I'm trying to make sure I don't slip up grammer-wise.

Well, I'm trying to come back, and if you don't see me back, just email the hell out of me, and it will get my attention. Hopefully I can get on top of things and get back and give my support.

[Balin999]

But on the bright side, the people who are left are all true Tolkien fans and really happy to be here

Just that someone doesn't post here anymore doesn't mean that he isn't a "true" Tolkien fan.
And what do you mean by "true"?

[the guy who be short]

I drifted off for a while too (hey, that should be our new refrain ).
In my case, it was due to the forum switching to V-Bulletin. I lost my password and couldn't get it back and just got confused and left. Then, several months later, I tried again and miraculously my correct password managed to get to me without any major hindrances on the way. So I came back.
After returning, I mostly lurked in the Shadows, reading a lot but not posting much. I guess I've been posting a lot more frequently of late, and have had fun acquainting myself with the newer (joined after 2005) members, especially in ME Mirth.

[Morsul the Dark]

I remembered this thread and just spent 20 minutes looking for it...

and this is the grand post it was all for,

Barrow-Wight Saucepanman, Heren Isatarian, Encantaire, bombadil, Firefoot, where have you all gone(there are more just mind block at the moment.)

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Barrow-Wight Saucepanman, Heren Isatarian, Encantaire, bombadil, Firefoot, where have you all gone(there are more just mind block at the moment.)

Encai is still enthusiastically active in other parts of life (and is currently experimenting with - of all things - shampoo). Heren and Saucie, if nobody else, have little ones to keep them on their toes (and Heren's got occasionally discomforting geography). Firefoot, I think, is just busy.

Me? I miss... well... the cast of Reunification of the Entish Bow. I started to merely list names until I realized most of them had REB as a common denominator: folk who could blow me away with fiction and could make academic writing laugh-out-loud funny.

I wonder if they realize that the lessons they accidentally taught me in writing about literature did more for me graduating with a lit degree (with honors) than most of my professors ever did...

There's something to be said for learning how to write (and think) critically on a literary discussion forum instead of in a classroom.

That being said, a fair portion of the migration - or hibernation - of past members may well be that very few new things are said in Books: if, perchance, a new thread is posted, many people will harken back (with links) to what they had to say about the topic three years ago. It's been done. Nothing new to say. Move on. It is discouraging to new minds and talents to learn that few people wish to actively rehash old questions - and why not? With time, thoughts and opinions often mature, evolve. With time, thoughts and opinions conversely often stagnate. Without new voices, even ones which call out the old questions, the 'Downs becomes the quiet grave for which it is name, with little left but the echo of old voices stirring from the darkness.

Its history may be overpowering its presence.

On a practical level, many members' lives have changed. Students growing up, adults marrying and starting families: the internet no longer takes the precidence it may once have.

On an academic level, does anybody really want to argue again that balrogs do or do not have wings? (My answer? Yes: wings of shadow; is the shadow that follows you on a sunny day any less real just because it is intrinsically attached to your own corporeal form and would not exist if separated from you? What is real in a moment does not lose its significance and truthfulness just because it is illusory or temporal. The shadow - when it is there - is still there, and is no less 'real' simply because it is fleeting and will disappear with the onslaught of light. Of course the balrog had wings: Tolkien said so.)

Another old topic: does anybody really want to go back into who determines canonicity? I'll certainly discuss it, but would that draw back old faces? Gain new voices? Or would I be composing a brief essay to be read by the world of the 'Downs, briefly considered - more quickly forgotten - and never responded to?

Mirth feels more like a discussion than an anthology in that the brevity of posts allows for a faster volley of ideas; Books often feels solitary: the difference, if you will, between writing an instant message and an e-mail.

Also, it might be as simple as that the old faces who graced us with their wit and insight back in 'the day' mayhap have exhausted their potential.

To keep from waxing poetic (or emo), I'll merely say: online as well as in offline society, people come and go from your spheres. People die, people move on, and those left must grow into their own, taking the places left, and forming new ones.

[Mithadan]

Feanor, first off, thank you for your kind comments regarding Reunification of the Entish Bow. REB was a labor of love, with the emphasis sometimes most heavily on the word "labor". Each of the two chapters was supposed to run for three or four months and they stretched into years. By the end, we finished by force of will. That RPG was in some ways a microcosm of this forum. Initial enthusiasm gave way to real life demands. Several writers dropped off, some just disappearing and others terminating their characters.

When I first joined this forum, within a month of its birth, there were only a handful of members, almost all of whom were very knowledgeable, extremely capable writers and able debaters. I, personally had abandoned another board that had become swept up in speculation and analysis of the then upcoming movies. The Downs quickly became known as the board for people who wanted to discuss and analyse the books; the "thinking man's" Tolkien board. Even then, we saw members come and go. People would accumulate a few hundred posts, then disappear or become treeish and rarely appear. I miss many of these members.

Even so, when the movies hit, we were inundated and around that time, we saw the advent of members linking old threads when faced with the 30th iteration of "do Balrogs have wings", "who is Tom Bombadil", "was Legolas blonde", etc. The proliferation of members and threads, particularly "chatty" threads, impacted upon our bandwidth and was beginning to cost more money. I am as guilty as any of the practice of linking old threads, though I rarely do so now, except to show differing viewpoints on an issue. Frankly, I would now discourage this practice.

When the huge influx of members happened after the movies came out, many old members lamented the loss of the earlier "bookish" atmosphere and many gave up. We administrators and moderators effectively burned out policing the joint, so many of us are not very active now. Real life intervenes as well. Work and school demands take a toll. One member nearly lost a house in a hurricane. And of course there remains the "nothing new under the sun" attitude. The ironic thing is that the Downs is now more like it was 2000 or 2001 than it has been in years; quiet, orderly and bookish with thoughtful posts and threads once again.

When I came out of semi-retirement a few months ago, I resolved privately to post at least once a week and start a thread or two a month. My results have been uneven. But if everyone adopts this attitude, the Downs will continue in its grand tradition.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

There is also the particularly subtle difference between those members who joined when only the books were existent and therefore had the more or less guaranteed interest in discussing the literature, and those members who joined out of desire to lynch themselves a wolf.

The shift in demographic alters the nature of the board.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Mithadan

When the huge influx of members happened after the movies came out, many old members lamented the loss of the earlier "bookish" atmosphere and many gave up.

There was a sizable stretch of time in the middle parts of this decade when my posts were sparse, and my visits down to about one per month. That was the primary reason.
I'm not saying there is inherently anything wrong with fanboys / girls raving about how the movies were the best ever and worthy of a million Oscars, or debating over whether the movie hobbits were fat enough or who was the 'hottest', Legolas or Faramir. Nor do I find IM / chat-style abbreviations in the proper context particularly irksome. However, that was not what I was looking for, so I decided my time was better spent elsewhere for a while.
And now? The place does have something of the earlier feel to it again, now that Mithadan says that.
There is still ample room for others to debate the merits of the movies, and still book discussions enough to keep those of that mind occupied.
Books, movies, WW, there's something here, I think, for every taste. New members are joining at what seems to be a consistent rate, so to me the place is much the same as always.
And we can look forward to some of those we've thought gone for good pushing their decaying corpses in here when they can, just to say hello.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Ah yes, Fea, the advent of Werewolf games (introduced by the Boss Wight himself) changed the Downs. At the time, I was sometimes annoyed that it took energy away from the discussion threads and skewed the rep system. However, it also brought new members who discovered that there are sections of the forum that are worth getting to know.

I too bemoan the loss of the "good ol' days" of REB and brilliant book discussions, and sometimes, like Mithadan, I resolve to post new threads that will generate interest. Unfortunately, time rarely seems to suffice; I'm still writing on Tolkien, but now it's a real life project that can be held in hands and will hopefully entice many fans to spend their money on it!

Horizons widen, new interests demand attention, and one the best ways to continue the Tolkien discussions is by joining one of the Societies and talking to real people!

Oh yes, and there are those friends and family members who are not interested in Tolkien discussions, but who think I should be interested in spending time with them nonetheless...


That being said, I may post less these days/months/years, but I still enjoy reading good contributions, and I hope those worthwhile posts continue to come!

[Formendacil]

Personally speaking, the slower pace of the 'Downs is much preferable to me. It is a lot easier to keep up with what's going on in the community when the amount of new posts is moderate than when it's overheated. Indeed, overheated simply becomes too daunting to bother trying when life is, generally, on the busier side. In interests of full disclosure, it's true that I usually check in daily, but I typically just glance at new posts in threads I'm subscribed to, and possibly not all of them, and then a cursory glance through the "Active Topics" page, before checking out. Admittedly, on those rare, boring evenings when there simply isn't anything going on and I crave more meat, the quieter 'Downs is a bit of a disappointment, but by and large I agree with Mithadan that burnout is the chief result of too much action--especially as my generation of members has shifted into university and beyond, our involvement is much more likely if it continues at a stately pace than a full out flame war.

[Rumil]

I think these things probably go in cycles.

We had the movie cycles of interest that really brought a lot of new members, then a small-scale cycle over CofH. I guess the next ones will be for The Hobbit.

The cycle of the year, in the UK at least its lovely weather (shock-horror!) so less likely to be at the computer. Also there are the usual ups and Downs of the working/student year, holidays etc that all influence activity.

Like Formy, I have a quick check most days to see what's new, but post more rarely (was never a volume-poster though!). I guess we each have our own personal cycles of interest and activity too.

Maybe one thing to consider is that t'internet is a bigger place now, and more into Facebook, Twitter etc applications than bulletin boards maybe.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Rumil

Maybe one thing to consider is that t'internet is a bigger place now, and more into Facebook, Twitter etc applications than bulletin boards maybe.

As someone who has never been able to fathom the appeal of Facebook or (gah!) Twitter, it's incomprehensible why anyone would prefer those media to the Downs.