Strange Curses!

[InklingElf]

Originally Posted by Rimbaud

In my thinking, this has always been Tolkien utilising an old tradition in fantastical writing. The use of the curse is ancient in life and literature, and I do not believe JRRT intended for this 'magic' to have any sort of logical system.

I'll have to second Rimbaud on that statement.

I also found an interesting post by the Barrow Wight on the curse of Isildur board (thanks for that link Mister Underhill):

Originally Posted by Barrow Wight

What sets the Men of the White Mountains apart from the other traitorous Men of Middle-Earth, especially those unfaithful ones of the First Age. Elves, seemingly closer to Eru than Men (or are they just closer to the Valar?), are never reported as having asked for such a curse against Man or Elf. And they were betrayed more often than not.

All facts point to Isildur having the power of God. This is the same Isildur later slain after falling into the temptation of evil (the Ring).

Is this a Numenorian trait?

[gorthaur_cruel]

Actually, I believe that the answer can be found in Unfinished Tales, in Narn i Hin Hurin. The following quote could explain this (emphasis mine).

(Mim) '...But this I will add: he that loosed the shaft shall break his bow and his arrows and lay them at my son's feet; and he shall never take arrow nor bear bow again. If he does, he shall die by it. That curse I lay on him.'
Androg was afraid when he heard of this curse; and though he did so with great grudge, he broke his bow and his arrows and laid them at the dead Dwarf's feet. But as he came out from the chamber, he glanced evilly at Mim, and muttered: 'The curse of a Dwarf never dies, they say; but a Man's too may come home. May he die with a dart in his throat!'

So I believe that Men can lay curses too.

[Gelmir]

Oh, Great(no sarcasm intended)! So could any other race lay a curse apart from man and elf, oh and miar and valar? Like hobbits, do they have ebough strength in them to do it?

Take into mind I haven't read all of Tolkeins Middle earth books

[InklingElf]

Originally Posted by gorthaur_cruel

'The curse of a Dwarf never dies, they say; but a Man's too may come home.

Is that a general statement then?

I wonder if these curses are only imminent in the Royal blood-lines, hence Isildur's curse. From my understanding kings of Numenor (like Aragorn in ROTK when he called upon Eowyn's soul) utilize the power of words in strong and profound ways -- whether in healing or felling...

[Earendilyon]

In the thread Oaths & Oathbreaking there's also some nice discussion on the Curse of the Grey Company, albeit from another angle.

[Lhundulinwen]

Personally, I think a curse is like an ultimate oath, or maybe an oath with a definate consequence. In ME, as well as most classical mythological stories and the Bible, if you break an oath some type of retribution will result. A curse, at least in Isildur's case, is what happens after an oath is broken. The point of Isildur's curse is to not give you're word lightly or dishonestly or Aragorn will come a few 1,000 years later and MAKE you fulfill your oath. That's my version of it anyways, .

[InklingElf]

Originally Posted by Lhundulinwen

Personally, I think a curse is like an ultimate oath, or maybe an oath with a definate consequence. In ME, as well as most classical mythological stories and the Bible, if you break an oath some type of retribution will result. A curse, at least in Isildur's case, is what happens after an oath is broken. The point of Isildur's curse is to not give you're word lightly or dishonestly or Aragorn will come a few 1,000 years later and MAKE you fulfill your oath. That's my version of it anyways, .

in other words: what goes around comes around

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

It had been held lawful only for the King of Númenor to call Eru to witness, and then only on the most grave and solemn occasions. The line of the Kings came to an end in Ar-Pharazôn who perished in the Downfall; but Elendil Voronda was descended from Tar-Elendil the fourth King, and was held to be the rightful lord of the Faithful, who had taken no part in the rebellion of the Kings and had been preserved from destruction. (UT III 2 - endnote 44)

Perhaps the people of the King of the Mountains had sworn an oath not dissimilar to the one sworn by Éorl to Cirion. And since both Isildur and Cirion called Eru in witness, any effects of those oaths will be upheld by Eru.