Questions from 'The Hobbit'

[Huinesoron]

... and answers too, perhaps.

I'm rereading The Hobbit for the first time in years, and I keep running across random passages which leave me with questions. Some of them I think I've answered; others, not so much.

(And yes, most of the actual answers are "The Hobbit wasn't part of the Legendarium when written." But that's no fun.)

Originally Posted by An Unexpected Party

"That would be no good," said the wizard, "not without a mighty Warrior, even a Hero. I tried to find one; but warriors are busy fighting one another in distant lands, and in this neighbourhood heroes are scarce, or simply not to be found."

Who are the Warriors Gandalf is thinking of? My best guess is that he would have picked up someone from Rohan or Dunland - I think this is before the Dunlendings were openly aligned with Team Evil. I guess they were having a border skirmish again, though it's not on the timeline.

What about the Heroes? Well... if this was a few decades later, he would have tapped Aragorn for the job. But Aragorn is 11 at this point... and his father and grandfather both died in the past decade or so. I think when Gandalf says "heroes... are not to be found", he specifically means "the Line of Isildur is down to one boy right now".

Originally Posted by A Short Rest

These... swords... were made in Gondolin for the Goblin-wars. They must have come from a dragon's hoard or goblin plunder..."

Where did the trolls pull the Sword of Turgon from, more than six thousand years after it was taken? My best guess: Moria. There were definitely trolls in Moria later (they lay bridges over the fire, I think), and after the Battle of Azanulbizar there was no authority figure in the place (assuming Durin's Bane went off to sleep/sulk in the Deep Places). I think Tom, Bert, and William left Moria after the battle, taking with them weapons which had been in the Balrog's possession since it helped destroy Gondolin.

(This also ties directly into my theory that the Balrog's sword is Anguirel.)

Originally Posted by Over Hill and Under Hill

They knew the sword at once... [the elves] had called it Orcrist, Goblin-cleaver, but the goblins called it simply Biter.

They recognised a sword that had been taken six thousand years ago? Gimme a break. One option is that this implies they had seen it (and Glamdring) while in enemy hands - in Moria, if my idea above is right. The other option is that this is Bilbo talking, and talking rubbish. The goblins probably did recognise it as an elvish sword, because it was literally glowing at the time. But they don't actually used the names Biter and Beater in direct speech except in the battle at the end of the chapter, where they might well have been general cries of alarm. We don't believe three of the Nazgul were named Fear, Fire, and Foes, just because that's what the Bucklanders shouted about!

Originally Posted by Barrels out of Bond

Then he ordered the dwarves each to be put in a separate cell... [Bilbo] found all their twelve cells in different parts of the palace...

Why did Thranduil have a dozen prison cells scattered around his palace? Why did he have prison cells at all; is there a lot of petty crime among the Nandor? My best guess: he didn't, and the 'cells' are just random rooms which happened to have locks and could be repurposed. The keys are a 'great bunch', which suggests every cell has a different key, supporting this idea.

Originally Posted by Barrels out of Bond

The wine, and other goods, were brought from far away, from their kinsfolk in the South, or from the vineyards of Men in distant lands.

Where do the Wood-Elves have kin in the South? Lorien is south of the Woodland Realm but Legolas establishes that there is no contact between the two. Rivendell is technically south, but not in The South. And that's... it?

Except, of course, for Dorwinion, land of 'heady wines' and once ruled by a king with a Sindarin name. I think this passage might be more evidence for Dorwinion as a Nandorin land.

hS