Deeper symbolism and hidden meanings in the books - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

**The Saucepan Man** · 01-26-2003, 07:04 PM

On the one hand (no pun intended), I'm with Artlithiel, Iarwain and Lush on this. When doing English A level, I wrote countless essays on the meaning of particular quotes or themes in works such as Wuthering Heights, A Farewell to Arms and Macbeth. At the same time, while analysing them endlessly for the purposes of my education, I came to appreciate them as the things that they were written for - jolly good novels/plays.

On the other hand, I do not think that the symbolism and allegory in these works is there solely because the teachers of literature tell us that it is. Some writers use it consciously and overtly, such as George Orwell's use of allegory in Animal Farm and 1984. For others, such as I think the Bronte sisters, it is subconscious, but it is nevertheless there. I think that it was probably a combination of both for JRRT. He drew heavily on his knowledge of mythology, for example, in his writings. At the same time, allegories of war or the symbolism of numbers were perhaps included more on a subconscious level.

As readers, we resonate with these things. Again, this is largely subconscious. Unless we are analysing it for the purposes of writing an essay to achieve some qualification (or for the purpose of posting on sites such as this [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] ), we simply enjoy what we are reading and our understanding of whatever deeper meaning might be there resonates with us on a subconscious level.

Clearly, from other postings here (good effort, Doug!), JRRT was influenced in his writings by numerology. I think that there is significance, for example, in the numbers of the Rings of Power. If one is the number of unity, then of course the One Ring was there to rule (unify) them all. And, as I have said, the numbers 3, 7 and 9 are all powerful numbers. But, they will not fit with every interpretation because numbers have been subject to so much interpration themselves. To take an example, Eruantalon states that the number five is associated, amongst other things, with creativity and the pentacle symbol, the symbol of earth. So, wouldn't "five Rings for the Dwarven Lords" have made more sense?

As I have said, I think that JRRT's use of numbers as symbolic is likely to have been on a more subconscious level (although I might be wrong - are there any letters on this?). That doesn't preclude a discussion on the significance of numbers in his works, but I feel pretty sure that they ain't gonna fit every theory.

01-26-2003, 07:04 PM	#26
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	On the one hand (no pun intended), I'm with Artlithiel, Iarwain and Lush on this. When doing English A level, I wrote countless essays on the meaning of particular quotes or themes in works such as Wuthering Heights, A Farewell to Arms and Macbeth. At the same time, while analysing them endlessly for the purposes of my education, I came to appreciate them as the things that they were written for - jolly good novels/plays. On the other hand, I do not think that the symbolism and allegory in these works is there solely because the teachers of literature tell us that it is. Some writers use it consciously and overtly, such as George Orwell's use of allegory in Animal Farm and 1984. For others, such as I think the Bronte sisters, it is subconscious, but it is nevertheless there. I think that it was probably a combination of both for JRRT. He drew heavily on his knowledge of mythology, for example, in his writings. At the same time, allegories of war or the symbolism of numbers were perhaps included more on a subconscious level. As readers, we resonate with these things. Again, this is largely subconscious. Unless we are analysing it for the purposes of writing an essay to achieve some qualification (or for the purpose of posting on sites such as this [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] ), we simply enjoy what we are reading and our understanding of whatever deeper meaning might be there resonates with us on a subconscious level. Clearly, from other postings here (good effort, Doug!), JRRT was influenced in his writings by numerology. I think that there is significance, for example, in the numbers of the Rings of Power. If one is the number of unity, then of course the One Ring was there to rule (unify) them all. And, as I have said, the numbers 3, 7 and 9 are all powerful numbers. But, they will not fit with every interpretation because numbers have been subject to so much interpration themselves. To take an example, Eruantalon states that the number five is associated, amongst other things, with creativity and the pentacle symbol, the symbol of earth. So, wouldn't "five Rings for the Dwarven Lords" have made more sense? As I have said, I think that JRRT's use of numbers as symbolic is likely to have been on a more subconscious level (although I might be wrong - are there any letters on this?). That doesn't preclude a discussion on the significance of numbers in his works, but I feel pretty sure that they ain't gonna fit every theory. __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!