Head of the family? Earendil or Luthien? Dark or Golden?

[cellurdur]

Originally Posted by jallanite

I don’t see anything odd about the Dúnedain descended from Elros sometimes listing Elros as the founder of their line and sometimes tracing it back to Lúthien who was half-Elf and half-Maia, and so reckoned the most noble person to whom they could trace their descent.

It would be no odder for a King of Judah to sometimes refer to himself as a descendant of David, sometimes a descendant of Judah, and sometimes a descendant of Abraham.

You appear to me to be attempting to extract a meaning where there appears to me to be none. Of course a King of Númenor is likely to refer to Elros as the first King of Númemor. That does not indicate that they did not also recognize that they were descendants also of Eärendil and of Lúthien.

I don't mention that there is anything strange in mentioning Elros as the head of the Royal House. However, this is different than the way Luthien and Earendil are mentioned.

I was commenting on the prestige given Earendil and Luthien. When it comes to the Numenoreans two distinct ancestors are honoured above all others.

You bring up the example of the Jewish lines. Yet actually if a descendant of Abraham-Judah-David constantly used one name over the other he would indeed be stressing something. If he constantly called himself a child of Abraham, I would imagine he was stressing his claim to the promises given to Abraham. If he said he was of the a son of David, would imply he was stressing his royal lineage.

The Numenorean Kings have many great and powerful ancestors; Fingolfin, Finwe, Turgon, Thingol, Melian, Dior etc. Yet only two are singled out.

Those who read what Tolkien wrote about the Númenóreans know quite well that the majority of Númenóreans were blond. The also know that not all of the People of Marach were blond and that not all the People of Bëor were brown-haired and that even before the settlement on Númenor there was much intermarriage between those peoples.

I don't think Tolkien ever said that the majority of Numenoreans were blond? Could you please provide the quote. This can be inferred from his comment that the majority of the Numenoreans were Marachian.

I doubt it. When the Númenórean kings turned against their Elvish tradition they would like likely try not to think much of Lúthien and Eärendil as figures connected with the Elvish tradition. Those who followed the Lords of Andúnië would tend to remember their links with the Elves.
You appear to me to be putting too much weight on individual statements of ancestry.

Well you are wrong. It is mentioned several times how different kings specifically invoke how the heirs of Earendil should not have to die. Ar-pharazon boast that the heir of Earendil should never have a rival for the title King of Men.

[B]For though the Valar had rewarded them with long life....and they died, even their kings of the seed of Earendil;[/B said by the Kings Men.

And does not my Earendil, my forefather live? Or is he not in the land of Aman.-said by Tar Ciryaton

he deemed no king should ever arise so mighty as to vie with the Heir of Earendil said by Ar-pharazon the Golden


The King's men always evoke the name of Earendil. Elrond on the other hand traces his lineage through Luthien and Thingol. Legolas too chooses to trace Aragorn's heritage through Luthien.