From the Enemy's Eyes-Rohirrim Charge on Helm's Deep/Pellenor

[WarBringer]

How would you, as the commander of the Uruk-Hai/Mordor Orcs, have chosen to combat the fearsome onset of the horsed Rohirrim at the battles of Helm's Deep and the Pellenor Fields?

[Beanamir of Gondor]

Well, there's always that tried-and-true method: turn tail and run into the enchanted forest that's going to eat you.

Come on. You've got a blonde guy on a horse screaming "Guthwine! Guthwine!" and brandishing a gigantic sword named precisely that, some old white-haired guy flashing beams of light from the end of a long stick (and wiping out fifteen orcs with one swift stroke of his own sword), and thirty million kajillion fazillion guys on horses racing down an hill screaming, with light beaming from behind their heads. Speaking of which, does anybody happen to know (offhand) the inertia of a Rohirrim rider and his horse if they race down an eighty-degree slope at ninety kilometres an hour?

Anyway, if I was one of them there Uruks, I'd totally run. Not necessarily into Fangorn, mind you... =D

[WarBringer]

That one made me laugh out loud, but seriously, an entire army cannot simply turn tail and run, it would cause a serious traffic jam to say the least-even an unplanned turn-and-run retreat is a hard military manuever to complete, so to pull off such a manuever with thousands of fully armed Uruk-Hai in any kind of military order would be difficult. In all seriousness, if you to fight, how would you combat such a charge?

[Sharpis Corbis]

At Helms Deep, I would suggest shooting arrows really fast, then attempting to get the the solgiers furthest away from the Rohirrim to retreat. Elevation above the horses would be nice to. Thats how I'd handle it.

[WarBringer]

I agree with you to a degree, the firing of arrows to cause disorder and disrupt the charge slightly may indeed work, but bear in mind that orcs use crossbows, which take long to load and longer if you have enormous war horses bearing down on you. In this manner, Uruk-Hai may be able to fire one massed volley before the horses hit the front line. Still, not a bad strategy at all, especiialy of it causes the front line horses to turn about in pain/confusion and disrupt the charge.

Also, remember that retreat would be difficult in such a little amount of time.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

I think that the pikes the orcs had were a good defense against the Riders, especially in the situation at Helm's Deep, and should have wreaked much more havoc than they did. To combat a sword, you need something longer, and since the horses were not armored, killing them certainly had first priority and should have been more effective than it actually was.

[The Tennis Ball Kid]

Originally Posted by WarBringer

How would you, as the commander of the Uruk-Hai/Mordor Orcs, have chosen to combat the fearsome onset of the horsed Rohirrim at the battles of Helm's Deep and the Pellenor Fields?

At Helm's Deep I'm not sure there was much they could do, as Gandalf seemed to pretty much destroy any morale they had by arriving with Eomer and co., and his supernatural dawn (and gravity defying, Man From Snowy River ability to go straight down cliffs ).


I thought their strategy at Pellenor was about right, but then I'm not an expert.




ttbk

[WarBringer]

Originally Posted by The Tennis Ball Kid

At Helm's Deep I'm not sure there was much they could do, as Gandalf seemed to pretty much destroy any morale they had by arriving with Eomer and co., and his supernatural dawn (and gravity defying, Man From Snowy River ability to go straight down cliffs ).

I am loving that reference, kid. I may not stop laughing for awhile....anyway, does no one see the wisdom of using siege weapons?

[The Tennis Ball Kid]

Originally Posted by WarBringer

I am loving that reference, kid. I may not stop laughing for awhile....anyway, does no one see the wisdom of using siege weapons?

I didn't notice it on my first viewing, but I nearly giggled on the second...


As to siege weapons, at Pellenor they wouldn't have time to put them in place since the Rohhirrm come out of nowhere, and while I can see how you would use catapults, I'm not sure how effective they'd be against a moving target.


ttbk

[Bywaters]

How would you, as the commander of the Uruk-Hai/Mordor Orcs, have chosen to combat the fearsome onset of the horsed Rohirrim at the battles of Helm's Deep and the Pellenor Fields?

I've been thinking a lot about this one this afternoon. I've read a few books in the Sharpe series by Bernard Cornwell. Sharpe being a rifleman during the Napoleonic wars (played by Sean Bean in the TV adaptation). Whenever Sharpe and his riflemen and Red jackets came across enemy cavalry they would form what is called a hollow square. Which would be three men deep, with the first rank presenting bayonnets allowing the two ranks behind them to fire off volleys at the call of the commanding officer. According to the books, the hollow square was nigh on impossible for a cavalry to break.

However, our poor Uruk-Hai and Orcs were faced with a massive and very sudden challenge. It is unlikely that they would have been able to form squares in such a quick time and they didn't seem to have the command stucture there to have put out the orders. Plus, their shear number would have made this hard to organise and achieve.

Also it seems that the Rohirrim could ride through anything! Esp at Helms Deep. I personally find it hard to believe that horses would run straight into so many spear or pikes like they do and come off on top. Artistic licence I guess!

[WarBringer]

Originally Posted by Bywaters

I've been thinking a lot about this one this afternoon. I've read a few books in the Sharpe series by Bernard Cornwell. Sharpe being a rifleman during the Napoleonic wars (played by Sean Bean in the TV adaptation). Whenever Sharpe and his riflemen and Red jackets came across enemy cavalry they would form what is called a hollow square. Which would be three men deep, with the first rank presenting bayonnets allowing the two ranks behind them to fire off volleys at the call of the commanding officer. According to the books, the hollow square was nigh on impossible for a cavalry to break.

That sounds very interesting and effective, you'll have to give me the information for that series...

On another note, I was referring to the use of a weapon such as a catapult to disrupt the charge. Imagine a huge rock landing right in the center of a horse charge down a narrow slope. It would completely halt the center charge. Just a thought...

[mormegil]

Siege Weapons against a horse charge...I don't think that would work too well. The accuracy would be greatly diminished and the rate of fire is too slow. If the Orcs had sufficient time and warning they could have dug ditches with pikes to slow them down and in the meantime taken out more of them with arrows. However that would require knowledge of the riders charging and from which direction they are coming both large problems but if they were truly prepared they would have taken the threat of the horsemen into their councils.

It just came to my mind of another possibility derived from the mumakil attack in the movie. If you were able to string some heavy gauged barbed wire that wouldn't give and break and the first onset would really slow them down...again problems are there but it's a possibility as well.