[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Are these the words of someone wholly under the influence of Sauron or the words of someone who had a genuine idea to do things another way, and who had that notion exploited by Sauron:

This has been a bit of an "off the wall" theory I've been thinking on for a while, so feel free to shoot it down hard, because it may be a reach. It just comes because I think Saruman is one of the most interesting villains written in literature.

I've been thinking based on what we know of Saruman's background (coming from Aule), who he is a person (jealous of Gandalf's ring, some parts politician, some part scientist, and some part mime) he wants the One Ring, not to wield is as say Galadriel or Gandalf would. Rather, he wants the Ring to understand its making, and uncover the power of its making in order to make a ring of his own.

Taking that next step to narfforc's post. Being a maia of Aule it's not surpise in UT - The Istari Saruman is said to have "great skill he had in works of hand." I also think there is a pride and love that the craftsman has for objects of their own making. So, Saruman not only had great skill at crafting, but I don't think it would be a stretch to say he would want something crafted by his own hand. There would be an added sense of pride in the skill, beauty, a/or power in one's own crafting, like with Feanor's silmarils.

Ok, now moving to all the parts of Saruman's personality. We know when he discovered Gandalf had an elven ring of power he was jealous:

And the Grey Messenger took the the Ring, and kept it ever secret; yet the White Messenger (who was skilled to uncover all secrets) after a time became aware of this give, and begrudged it, and it was the beginning of the hidden ill-will that he bore to the Grey, which afterwards became manifest~The Istari

This may be looking like slow baby steps, but it's basically my exact train of thought and establishing Saruman wants a ring of power. And he winds up wanting the One Ring. But here's where if you ask "why?" I think you can come up with some different possibilities. For a long time I went on assuming the answer to "why" would be the same as Galadriel or Gandalf. Saruman wants the Ring to control it, wield it, and style himself as the new Lord of the Rings. Essentially, he wants to replace Sauron and thinks possessing and mastering the One Ring is his path to doing it. But this is where Saruman gets so complicated and fascinating as a character, because he's not Sauron and he's not Gandalf.

Taking the other aspects of Saruman's personality. He's very much a scientist, as we see with breaking the white light:

"In which case it is no longer white...and he that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom"~The Council of Elrond

In Gandalf's opinion, what Saruman has done is treacherous. Whether someone agrees with Gandalf or not, isn't really the purpose, but it's reveals a part of Saruman's character. He is one who will take something, and break it, to try to find out what it is, and I think in trying to understand it's making, Saruman believes he can gain power over it. It's much different from seeking the Ring to wield it. With Saruman, it becomes seeking the One Ring to study it, unlock any hidden keys to its making and therefor, possibly trying to craft a ring that would be his own making that would be able to challenge Sauron's ring.

Here's where it might be argued that surely Saruman, as well studied into Ring-lore as he was, would understand that such an endeavor is beyond his powers. I disagree, because we have to consider the rest of Saruman's personality. He reaches a point where he is so prideful he's deluded and bewildered himself. He's blinded by his pride, he can't see or comprehend his failure anymore. When Isildur tried to bend the Ring to his will, in the UT, Isildur remarks his "pride has fallen." He realized the limitations of his own power, couldn't subjugate the Ring to his will, and thus decides it needs to go to the "Keepers of the three."

Saruman, being innately more powerful than Isildur, may very well be able to succeed where Isildur couldn't. However, even if Saruman were to fail, as Isildur did, I don't think Saruman would even comprehend that he failed. Isildur's pride fell. Saruman's pride blinded him to the point where he was fooling himself and the capability of his powers. Saruman is incapable of understanding the limitations of his powers. And therefor I believe if he wanted the One Ring to "break it" (as he did with the white light) and uncover crafting his own Ring of Power, he wouldn't understand the fruitlessness of his pursuit.

Saruman the mime. Basically, Saruman copies everything from Sauron, but it just winds up being a cheap knock off. The best way I can explain it is, if Sauron drank whole milk Saruman would drink skim. He wants to emulate Sauron in every way, but it winds up being a lesser imitation. The tower, the new breed of Uruks, the white hand, the "Ring-maker" title (which is ironically a title Gandalf gives to Sauron earlier in the books), all of Saruman's efforts to imitate Sauron. So, my question is, how can Saruman be a mime if his desire is to wield Sauron's Ring? Saruman would need a Ring of Power, crafted by his hands, and in that way can he only be the perfect copy of Sauron.

Finally, going back now to one of Lal's points:

Are these the words of someone wholly under the influence of Sauron or the words of someone who had a genuine idea to do things another way, and who had that notion exploited by Sauron

Saruman's mind is extremely muddled. I think of it as there is what Saruman says and how he wants others to perceive him, and then there is what Saruman actually does. And they are different. Saruman, essentially says one thing, but in the end he is of the same mind as Sauron.

Sauron had, in fact, been very like Saruman, and so still understood him quickly and could guess what he would be likely to think and do, even without the aid of palantiri or of spies; whereas Gandalf eluded and puzzled him.~HOME X: Morgoth's Ring; Myths Transformed

Sauron was able to understand Saruman far better than he could understand Gandalf, because Saruman was so similar. And in the end, Saruman fell in a way different from Denethor's fall:

Saruman fell under the domination of Sauron and desired his victory, or no longer opposed it. Denethor remained steadfast in his rejection of Sauron, but was made to believe that his victory was inevitable~The Palantiri

"desire his victory, or no longer opposed it"...there's some interesting and kind of unhelpful wording. However, this is where Saruman the politician comes in. Because, as Lal says, Saruman's speeches don't really sound like one who is wholly under the influence of Sauron, yet Saruman becomes such a close imitation, Sauron can easily figure him out.

I think what it is, Saruman has tried to put on so many different faces and charades that he's confused not only everyone else, but himself. He may truly believe what he says and the end results are just completely different. Or he is the politician who has tried to play to so many different parties (Gandalf, Sauron, the Elves, Rohan, Gondor..etc) that he's essentially beent tangled in his own web of deceit. He's befudddled himself to the point where he himself doesn't understand what he's saying, nor who he is as a person. This is a point Tom Shippey observes with all of Saruman's abstract speeches on "the Power" and "the ultimate purpose," and "breaking the white light."

Saruman indeed talks exactly like too many politicians. It is impossible towork out exactly what he means because of the abstract nature of his speech; in the end it is doubtful whether he understands himself.~Author of the Century; Mapping out a Plot

He may indeed believe what he's spouting, but he's speaking so abstractly it confuses the audience and probably confuses himself. And while he certainly doesn't sound like one who is of like mind to Sauron, in the end that's basically who he becomes.