[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Guinevere

The "Words of Húrin and Morgoth" make me really admire Húrin for his incredible courage and steadfastness (he is my favourite hero)- but probably it wasn't wise to mock Morgoth to his face! Would Morgoth have been less cruel if Húrin had just kept silent?

Silence could also be mocking. Keeping quiet sometimes is just as bad as talking. And can you imagine what Morgoth would have done if Hurin didn't say a word?!

For me, this line stands out the most from the chapter:

Blind you are Morgoth Bauglir, and blind shall ever be, seeing only the dark. You know not what rules the hearts of Men, and if you knew you could not give it.

This shows Hurin's insight more than the talk about the Valar.

And what about Húrin crying out: "Marrer of Middle-earth, would that I might see thee face to face, and mar thee as my lord Fingolfin did!" Was "fate" at work to make this rash wish come true?

Hmm. Possibly.

I can sympathize with Morwen when she tells Túrin "It is heavy on me in evil days to judge what is best to do." and the parting of mother and son is heartbreaking and proves that Morwen has feelings after all, even if she shows little of them.

Of course she has feelings! What is she, a block of wood? I don't understand why she is viewed so negatively.

But I just cannot understand her stubborn pride. After Túrin had arrived safely in Doriath and Thingol's messengers invited Morwen to come with them to Doriath - that would have been the safest opportunity to flee, with the Elves accompanying her and the baby!

No, no, no, no, no. No. You don't understand her at all. She is the kind of person that holds pride and honour above all else, even life. If Aerin didn't offer her help, Morwen would have starved to death before she asked anyone for help herself, much less a stranger. And that was a situation of life and death. Going to Doriath was a choice between harsh life and harsh journey but better life as a guest. She would not live her life as a guest, as a beggar. Whatever happens to her, she will not beg.

She is a person with immense willpower. She has high expectations for herself and for others, and her will is what keeps her up, keeps her strong. She is never weak. Her willpower suppresses her deepest feelings (which shows just how much it pained her to send Turin away, since she could not resist the grief). In my opinion, the light in her eyes is a reflection of her inner power.

Morwen is no angel. But I respect and admire her. And I understand her.

To me it looks like Túrin inherited all his negative character traits from his mother.

Disagreed again. I already quoted Melian's words about his character:

Fear both the heat and the cold of your heart.

The coldness comes from Morwen, but the heat from Hurin. Neither is bad by itself - what makes the combination so bad is that Turin doesn't control them.


What do you think of Hurin and Morwen's debate in The Childhood of Turin, when Hurin wants them to flee to Brethil and Morwen to Doriath, and they forebode a tragedy in both? It's puzzling to me that each parent seems to sense only part of their children's story, together foreshadow the story almost in full (except for the Fall of Nargothrond), and yet make it so that both tragedies came true. Not intentionally or knowingly, but........ well, foreshadowing is foreshadowing.