[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Flame of Udûn

I have known for a while now the religious connotations within Tolkien's writing but it appears to me that while everyone always talks about its links to christianity it seems that it is more closely linked to the old Norse religions and I shall list my reasons:

I guess it varies, for example myself, I have more heard it the other way around, but I would say it is both, and that much is clear. Even Tolkien himself had said it in some of his letters, interviews, etc., etc. Tolkien was using the Germanic and Norse (and other, to a lesser extent) mythology as a source, even unconsciously sometimes probably, but of course, as a Christian, he was also using the Christian picture (possibly more unconsciously than the Germanic mythology, at least even he seems to imply that he realised that only later).

But yea, I think there is something to discuss, and even though it's been discussed probably many times, like you say, why not...

1. There are many god like beings (the Valar/Æsir and Maiar/Vanir) and of course in Christianity there is only one god but in Norse paganism there are many (Odin, Thor... etc)

Of course, this one can be disputed. "God-like beings" they definitely are, but not really equivalent to the Christian God, they are indeed more like the Norse gods and so on. Eru, however, can be clearly paralelled to the Christian God. On the other hand, the question is whether Valar can really be called "gods" even to the extent as e.g. Odin, Thor etc. were. Because Valar - or Ainur in general - are subject to Eru (whereas those aren't) and in fact, they are not so much of rulers, certainly not in the later Ages, and they act more like "stewards" of Arda. Some parallelled them to angels in Christianity and that actually sounds to me a lot closer than paralleling them to Odin etc., at least when it comes to their role and status.

2. There is a great battle to be fought against Morgoth at the end of the world (Dagor Dagorath) when he frees himself from his prison- this is basically an altered form of Ragnarok the battle in which Loki led an army against the Gods and the world was destroyed when a Fire deamon set fire to Yggdrasil (the tree of life) another link is that both of these battles were predicted though I cannot remember who predicted ragnarok

That one is definitely a close inspiration, although Dagor Dagorath was not entirely filled into the finished "canon". But yes. It is true however, that the tale of a battle at the end of times exists in broad range of mythologies, many of them completely unrelated to the Germanic one, and even in Christianity there are echoes of such things e.g. in the idea of the battle of Armageddon and so on. But many mythologies have such a "final battle", although Tolkien probably was thinking of Ragnarok as being culturally the "closest" to him.

3. The gods ruled in a land that was seperate from Middle Earth (which is coincidentally the name vikings had for earth (Midgard) as it lay between Asgard and Hel though there were others)

Gods basically always rule a land separate from the mortals. And Valinor over the Sea hints probably more to the sort of Irish or whatnot mythologies (I am not so well-versed in those, perhaps somebody else can be more concrete). The name is of course the same, although Tolkien, I believe, said in some interview that he did not intend this as a parallel, but that he simply translated from archaic to modern language the word for "world" (inhabited by humans) as it was understood by that time.

4. This is a weak link but i will list it anyway Valhalla is a hall where half the warriors slain in battle go which is somewhat similar to the halls of Mandos

Similar indeed, but once again, I would say that Valhalla is not really much reminiscent of Mandos. Mandos is the halls of waiting, more or less, but far more similar actually to some images of the Greek Hades (but just some - those of waiting, not anything to do with punishment), or even of the Hebrew Sheol (which was more like this dull place of grey, more fitting for how I imagine Mandos).

But yea, interesting topic and thread... looking forward to what people could say here...