[the phantom]

when he repaired for a good long time to the dark recesses of the world, must have believed that his injury was resultant upon the Ring's destruction, not merely the severing of himself from it

As jet any such defeat had seen him recover soon, but know he had much more trouble to do that

But wasn't Sauron seperated from his Ring when he was in Numenor? I seem to remember a quote saying when he got back home he "took up his Ring again" or something like that. So it's not like Sauron didn't know what it felt like to be without his Ring. Yeah, the recovery was more difficult without the Ring, but surely he realized that the Ring was still somewhere since he was able to recover.

For all Sauron (or anyone else) knew, destroying the Ring could have ushered in a new age of...oh, let's say, Orc cotillions.

Judging from this and other comments I guess people really do think that Sauron didn't know jack about his Ring. I just have a difficult time believing this, particularly that he had no clue what its destruction would do to him.

If he (as Gandalf said) thought it was destroyed and had not met his doom why would he know it was his doom when he sensed Frodo at the Cracks?

Why would he think someone had destroyed it and also think someone wouldn't destroy it?

So far, the only way my fellow downers have been able to answer these questions involves making Sauron somewhat (or extremely) ignorant about his own creation, his ultimate weapon, his precious. The Ring wasn't some other guy he imprisoned inside of a wedding band; the Ring was a part of him. The Ring's 'body' and 'spirit' were created by Sauron.

Making him clueless about the Ring seems to me even more improbable than making the good guys clueless about Sauron. Doesn't the latter seem more plausible to anyone, or am I alone?

Maybe everyone hates to see the good guys brought down a peg?

One doesn't even have to read the statement that follows to see the discrepancy in your own assertions - the quote that follows was written after the writing and publishing of Lord of the Rings. Any writings from before your quote cannot be expected to totally line up with the quote itself. They may loosely, but it could be (and may very well be) that Tolkien had changed his perspective on the matter (not necessarily a 180-degree change, but still a change). Such a development in thought is bound to cause some "discrepancies" with earlier writings.

Well dang, Legolas, I guess we shouldn't ever bring up The Sil, HoME, LOTR, The Hobbit, or any other Tolkien book when we're talking about another book, since he didn't write them all at the same exact time.

But don't worry, I get your point.

The 'discrepancies' you point out and attribute to characters in the story are obviously points that should be attributed more to the author. More than likely, it's the author who was writing the book as he went.

That seems like too easy of a way to get out of this. I mean, it's true when you disagree with something or dislike a notion you can always say "Well, this isn't real, there was an author involved and they made a mistake", but I'm trying hard to keep this within the framework of Middle-Earth.

And within the framework, my theory seems possible (more possible to me than Sauron not understanding his own Ring).

The difference between the two statements can be explained by the passage of time. Gandalf had found out a lot between those scenes. Gandalf wasn't stupid; there was simply very little to go on in the beginning. Over the course of that first volume is where the story begins fittingly - as the plans of Sauron begin to unravel and Gandalf now has enough to see the full picture.

That's very true, Legolas, but it doesn't take away from what I'm saying. You see, Gandalf's first and second statements were both communicated as fact. At the beginning when he didn't see the full picture (as you said) he presented his knowledge as fact. He didn't say "I believe" or "I think" or "It's likely". There was no difference in the presentation of the two statements.

So how do we know the second was indeed the "full picture", since Gandalf has set a precedent for stating things that were not proven.

Do we know if anyone ever had the full picture, even at the end?

To my mind Sauron is very powerful, but not very bright

Oh please. You're calling Sauron "not very bright"? I don't have my books with me, but I know I've read that he was studious, brilliant, and powerful. And Gandalf at the Council of Elrond calls Sauron "very wise". (then again, maybe Gandalf is mistaken again )

At the end, when Frodo stood at the Sammath Naur, & suspect that his reaction wasn't 'intellectual' - ie, that he realised his situation & his danger

That seems to go against what the book says-

for he knew his deadly peril and the thread upon which his doom now hung

Well, I figured this theory would seem too anti-good guy to fly with most, but I'm surprised that there hasn't been anyone at all on the Downs that is willing to play along a bit and maybe has some thoughts or quotes that would go with it.

If not, oh well. It's not like I've never had an unpopular opinion.