The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-07-2013, 08:30 AM   #1
EluThingol
Pile O'Bones
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 12
EluThingol has just left Hobbiton.
The greatest Craftsman/Smith of Arda

I was thinking about the various skilled entities of Arda..... those who stood by a forge or used tools to craft things of worth, beauty, power, etc, and that includes the fashioning of Arda itself.

Who do you think were the GREATEST of all time, in what order? Here is mine. But I'd like some opinions...

#1 AULE

Aule fashioned much of the earth of Arda, I imagine the design and fashioning of much of middle earth and the western lands were put somewhat to his charge. And we know that he spent much of his time at the forge, the first ever to do so, and that in time immemorial he had even created the dwarves. The Nolder learned much of their lore from him directly, and the entire culture of the dwarves follows the great smith. I'm sure that the works of everyone else in this list have a vein in it, of lore and skill, that originates in Aule

#2 FEANOR

Although not a vala or maia, Feanor's accomplishments were so great that not even the gods could understand how he did them. Also, the things he created were of enormous importance to the events that take place in Tolkien's major works. He was considered the greatest of the Children of Iluvatar. The Silmarils alone could stand for this argument.

#3 MELKOR

I was going to put him at #2, but then I thought about it, and other than his sort of "re-invention" of the children of Iluvatar (with the orcs) and "re-invention of arda" (basically just reversing everything Aule and the others did), what did he MAKE? No doubt his implied lore and understanding of craftsmanship, smithing, etc, was literally otherworldly.... but I think for that reason alone he is as high on the list as he is, and not really for his actual creations.

#4 SAURON

The rings speak for themselves. And of course it is no coincidence that at one point he was under the banner of Aule and must have learned much from him. Following this is his apprenticeship under Melkor.

#5 MAHTAN

Father of Nerdanel, Father-in-law to Feanor... and in the beginning one of Feanor's teachers. Of all the Noldor, Aule favored Mahtan most of all, though there is nothing that says of his accomplishments specifically. Still, being a sort of early professor to Feanor and holding the position of "#1 smith " in Aule's eyes among the Children of Eru, he makes 5.



I would love to know if I missed any of the Dwarves but Tolkien didnt seem to point out any one of them individually to take credit for their great works, as Khazad Dhum, or the Nauglamir, etc. It's more credited to "the dwarves" as a group.
EluThingol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 09:08 AM   #2
Zigr
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Zigr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 785
Zigr is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Zigr is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EluThingol View Post
I would love to know if I missed any of the Dwarves but Tolkien didnt seem to point out any one of them individually to take credit for their great works, as Khazad Dhum, or the Nauglamir, etc. It's more credited to "the dwarves" as a group.
Actually, we know of several Dwarves notable for their smithcraft. Telchar is probably the most prominent example, who forged Angrist (which Beren used cut the Silmaril from the Crown of Morgoth), the Dragon-helm of Dor-lmin worn originally by Azaghl of Belegost but most famously by Trin Turambar, and of course Narsil, the sword of Elendil, later reforged by the smiths of Rivendell into Andril which Aragorn wielded in the War of the Ring. Telchar's tutor Gamil Zirak the Old was also a noteworthy smith who made many treasures later owned by none other than your namesake Thingol of Doriath.

Speaking of Dwarves and craftsmen more generally, I might also mention Narvi of Khazad-dm who, in the Second Age, built the Doors of Durin on the Western side of the Misty Mountains alongside Celebrimbor, who I think also has a place on a list of great craftsmen, given that he forged the Rings of Power, and notably the Three Rings, independently of the influence of Sauron.

To name another Elf we must also give a moment to the sinister El, the Dark Elf, who forged Anguirel, the sword of Maeglin, and Anglachel, the sword of Turambar, which quite notably spoke to its master upon his suicide. I don't know about rankings, but making a talking sword is a rather impressive feat in my view.

Given how many important smiths there are in Professor Tolkien's work, and how recurrent themes of making, manufacturing, art and science are in his texts I'm sometimes surprised more isn't made of them (if you'll pardon the pun).
__________________
"Since the evening of that day we have journeyed from the shadow of Tol Brandir."
"On foot?" cried omer.
Zigr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 09:53 AM   #3
EluThingol
Pile O'Bones
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 12
EluThingol has just left Hobbiton.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zigr View Post
Actually, we know of several Dwarves notable for their smithcraft. Telchar is probably the most prominent example, who forged Angrist (which Beren used cut the Silmaril from the Crown of Morgoth), the Dragon-helm of Dor-lmin worn originally by Azaghl of Belegost but most famously by Trin Turambar, and of course Narsil, the sword of Elendil, later reforged by the smiths of Rivendell into Andril which Aragorn wielded in the War of the Ring. Telchar's tutor Gamil Zirak the Old was also a noteworthy smith who made many treasures later owned by none other than your namesake Thingol of Doriath.

Speaking of Dwarves and craftsmen more generally, I might also mention Narvi of Khazad-dm who, in the Second Age, built the Doors of Durin on the Western side of the Misty Mountains alongside Celebrimbor, who I think also has a place on a list of great craftsmen, given that he forged the Rings of Power, and notably the Three Rings, independently of the influence of Sauron.

To name another Elf we must also give a moment to the sinister El, the Dark Elf, who forged Anguirel, the sword of Maeglin, and Anglachel, the sword of Turambar, which quite notably spoke to its master upon his suicide. I don't know about rankings, but making a talking sword is a rather impressive feat in my view.

Given how many important smiths there are in Professor Tolkien's work, and how recurrent themes of making, manufacturing, art and science are in his texts I'm sometimes surprised more isn't made of them (if you'll pardon the pun).


Im certainly going to have to rethink my list.

Narvi, Telchar, Gamil for the Dwarves.

Celebrimbor for his work with Dhum and the rings certainly makes him a contender for being just under Feanor as far as the Elves... Eol is also right up there.



No mention of men as far as smiths...
EluThingol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 11:54 AM   #4
Morthoron
Curmudgeonly Wordwraith
 
Morthoron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits
Posts: 2,483
Morthoron is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Morthoron is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Morthoron is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Morthoron is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
El also forged armor of the black metal Galvorn, from ore mined from a fallen star.

An unnamed Dwarf of Belegost crafted the Nauglamr, the necklace in which the Silmaril was set. Next to the Silmaril, the Nauglamr was said to be the 2nd greatest treasure in Doriath.
__________________
And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision.
Morthoron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 10:22 PM   #5
Belegorn
Shade of Carn Dm
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Henneth Annn, Ithilien
Posts: 462
Belegorn has just left Hobbiton.
Feanor forged the Silmarills and the 7 Seeing Stones among others.

"He became of all the Noldor, THEN or AFTER, the most subtle in mind and the most skilled in hand. In his youth, BETTERING the works of Rumil, he devised those LETTERS which bear his name, and which the ELDAR USED EVER AFTER; and it was he who, FIRST of the Noldor, discovered how gems greater and brighter than those of the earth might be made with skill" [68-69]

Feanor had all inhabitants of Aman in awe. That says something to me.

The Noldor were said to be, "the most skilled of the Elves" [Sil, p. 35] and of the Noldor who were students of Aule and his people it is said, "the Noldor were beloeved of Aule, and he and his people came often among them. Great became their knowledge and their skill; yet even greater was their thirst for more knowledge, and in many things they soon surpassed their teachers." [62-63]

The Noldor had the best teachers, and were the most skilled and Feanor was greatest among them. As someone mentioned, none could even understand how Feanor had crafted the Silmarills.

"The works of wonder for the glory of Arda that he might otherwise have wrought ONLY Manwe might in some measure conceieve." [112]

So generally speaking among the Elves I would say Feanor was the greatest. Someone may have mastered one art and surpassed him.
__________________
"For believe me: the secret for harvesting from existence the greatest fruitfulness and the greatest enjoyment is - to live dangerously!" - G.S.; F. Nietzsche
Belegorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:04 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.