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Old 10-05-2004, 06:41 AM   #1
Elessar Telcontar
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White Tree What if Boromir claimed the Ring?

If Boromir had succeded in taking the ring for himself what do you think would have happened?

Myself personally I believe he would have been championed more than Aragorn as King in Gondor and he would have led an army to Mordor intent on overthrowing Sauron, though it is likely this would fail. The Ring would probably have betrayed him to his death and been reclaimed by Sauron.

Also, I feel he would turn on his father when asked to give up the Ring and possibly feel paranoid towards Faramir. The Men of Gondor would be most likely to side with Boromir and thus would cast Denethor out of their lands.

Ultimately, I feel that the Ring would completely corrupt Boromir and it's corruption would spread from the roots of Gondor outwards.

So, thats enough from me...What do you guys think?
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Old 10-05-2004, 06:47 AM   #2
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The Eye

If Boromir had commandered the Ring from Frodo I feel that he would never have made it to Minas Tirith alive, Aragorn, I feel, would have tracked him down and before long killed Boromir, taken the Ring and tried to continue the quest whether alone or by trying to track down the ringbearer.
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Old 10-05-2004, 10:46 AM   #3
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Thats intersting. Do you really think Aragorn could have killed Boromir while he had the ring? Possibly. What I do know is that if Boromir had made it back to Minas Tirith with the ring then it most likely would have meant the downfall of Gondor. Either through the corruption of the ring or at war with Sauron which were both mentioned already. As everybody knows or should know that only Sauron can truly wield the ring although Frodo did a pretty good job I thought, so it would have been bad for middle earth as a whole if the ring had come to Boromir.
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Old 10-05-2004, 11:20 AM   #4
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Just a little point, maybe nitpicking, but Frodo never "wielded" the ring as such until he claimed it for his own at Mount Doom .. he never wore it with intent to control - although he threatened that he would to Gollum. Unlike Frodo who used it merely to disappear, Boromir would have attempted to use it. I do not know if, even with the One RIng, he had the power in himself to control the Nazgul, whose rings were held by Sauron , and could he have controlled the Uruk swho served Saruman? I suspect his fate would have been similar to Isildur's and he would never have made it back to Minas Tirith.
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Old 10-05-2004, 12:53 PM   #5
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1420! Interesting topic.

Orophin:
Quote:
Do you really think Aragorn could have killed Boromir while he had the ring? Possibly.
I think Boromir could have been a challenge to Aragorn even without the Ring. Aragorn in the end is probably the better swordsmen, but Boromir wouldn't be a pushover, anyway that is off topic, and my speculation.

So, on topic....

Elessar:
Quote:
Also, I feel he would turn on his father when asked to give up the Ring and possibly feel paranoid towards Faramir. The Men of Gondor would be most likely to side with Boromir and thus would cast Denethor out of their lands.
I tend to believe differently. If Boromir had made it to Minas Tirith, his sole purpose in claiming the ring was to save Gondor, he thought it could save Gondor, and that's the weakness the Ring attacked in Boromir.

The Council of Elrond:
Quote:
"I do not understand all this," he (Boromir) said. "Saruman is a traitor, but did he not have a glimpse of wisdom? Why do you speak ever of hiding and destroying? Why should we not think that the Great Ring has come into our hands to serve us in the very hour of need? Wielding it the Free Lords of the Free may surely defeat the enemy. That is what he most fears, I deem.
"The men of Gondor are valiant, and they will never submit; but they may be beaten down. Valour needs first strength, and then a weapon. Let the Ring be your weapon, if it has such power as you say. Take it and go forth to victory!"
Boromir could not have been more wrong with that statement, but the words I underline would seem to me like Boromir didn't wish to claim the Ring for himself. He very well could be hiding his true thoughts, but I don't think Boromir would have become hostile to Denethor or Faramir if he had reached Minas Tirith. I believe Boromir did want the Ring for himself, but I don't see him becoming hostile towards his family, if Denethor asked for the Ring, Boromir would have given it to him.

I agree with Mithalwen's point, Boromir would have met the end like Isildur, and would have never made it back to Minas Tirith.

There is an interesting bit that I would also like to mention. In one of Tolkien's earlier drafts he actually had Boromir join league with Saruman. Which case, Boromir and Aragorn go to Minas Tirith, Boromir stirs an uprising and Aragorn has to kill him. Your thoughts on that? And I wonder why Tolkien abandoned that idea? (I happen to like the "final" Boromir better, lol).
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Old 10-05-2004, 01:07 PM   #6
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Ring

Originally posted by Orophin:
"As everybody knows or should know that only Sauron can truly wield the ring although Frodo did a pretty good job I thought, so it would have been bad for middle earth as a whole if the ring had come to Boromir."
----------------------
I think that's more a movie version. In the book it seems that any of the
Wise (such as Gandalf, Galadriel, Elrond, and possibly men such as Aragorn
or Denethor [and what of dwarves?] ) could learn in time to wield it. The problem
would be the inevitable corruption to evil. In their ways, even Gollum and Bilbo "wielded" the ring.
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Old 10-05-2004, 05:39 PM   #7
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Ring A second kin-strife?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boromir88
I believe Boromir did want the Ring for himself, but I don't see him becoming hostile towards his family, if Denethor asked for the Ring, Boromir would have given it to him.
I agree that Boromir's intentions as regards the Ring, at least at first, were to use it against Sauron and in the defence of Gondor. In this, he spoke truly (from his perspective) at the Council of Elrond.

But I doubt that, when it came to it, he could voluntarily have surrendered it to his father. Even Bilbo had to be nudged into giving it up and that was before it was fully awakened and far from Mordor, not to mention that Bilbo was a Hobbit and therefore (in my view) had a greater innate resistance to it than Boromir.

Had Boromir seized it from Frodo and (against the odds) made it back to Minas Tirith, he would have been exposed to it for some time. By that time the hold of the Ring would have been too strong. Perhaps it would have seduced him into believing that only he could wield it or that it was his right to bear it. The result would have been chaos in Minas Tirith and quite possibly a second kin-strife. In any event, it wouldn't have taken long for Sauron to march his forces in to seize it, quite possibly (in those circumstances) with little resistance.
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Old 10-05-2004, 07:52 PM   #8
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Back to the idea of Aragorn killing Boromir to stop him -- I don't think Aragorn would have killed Boromir if it meant taking the Ring from him, such as tracking him on his journey to Minas Tirith, slaying him, and then taking the Ring. It sounds too much like Smeagol and Deagol to me. However, if Boromir took the Ring before he got away from the rest of the Fellowship, maybe Aragorn would have killed him and then had Frodo take it back. Aragorn knew the risks of killing to take the Ring, and therefore would have avoided the situation while possible.
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Old 10-05-2004, 11:50 PM   #9
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to elaborate on Tuor's post. By "wield" I really meant that to use the ring for what it was made for. Sauron really made for power and destruction. All of the characters that "wielded" the ring were just holding on to and using it to make themselves invisible.
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Old 10-06-2004, 12:16 AM   #10
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Sting

Yes when they used the ring they just made themselves invisible,but if Boromir had got the ring surely he would get powers and not merely become invisible.

As Saucepan man says if Boromir had returned to Minas Tirith with the ring he would not have given the ring to his father,but would have kept it for himself.
But why would there be a second kin-strife,if Boromir proclaimed himself as King then the people would have agreed,and then I think he could even have the power to defeat the Dark Lord himself.
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Old 10-06-2004, 03:33 AM   #11
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Shield

Quote:
Originally Posted by rutslegolas
But why would there be a second kin-strife
Assuming, as seems likely, that Denethor would wish to wield the Ring against Sauron himself while he remained Steward, then Boromir's refusal to give it up would create a serious rift between them. Add to that the corrupting influence of the Ring (on both its bearer and those within its vicinity), which would have an interest in creating a schism within Gondor, then we surely have the basis for a possible civil war. Some would remain loyal to Denethor, while others would rally to Boromir. Inevitably Faramir would be drawn in, even though he might be able to resist the Ring's wiles himself. I'm not saying that this would inevitably lead to a second kin-strife, but its certainly a distinct possibility. The Ring would do its utmost to create instability within Minas Tirith and Gondor so as to make it easier for its Master to reclaim it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rutslegolas
I think he could even have the power to defeat the Dark Lord himself
There is a quote in Tolkien's Letters (which, unforunately I do not have to hand) which suggests that, with the possible exception of Saruman, only Gandalf might be expected to prevail over Sauron by use of the Ring. Tolkien makes it clear that Aragorn would not have been able to do so and indicates that even Galadriel was probably fooling herself (under the Ring's influence) when she contemplated successfully using it against Sauron. In light of this, I am certain that Boromir, even with the Ring, would be no match for Sauron. Possibly, his armies could hold out for a while against Sauron's forces but I am sure that Sauron would prevail in the end. Remember, the Ring is tricksy and its primary intent is to return to its Master.
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Old 10-06-2004, 03:23 PM   #12
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Ring

If Aragorn killed Boromir to keep him from using the Ring, as was mentioned earlier, perhaps Aragorn himself would have been corrupted.
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Old 10-06-2004, 03:40 PM   #13
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1420!

Here is the Letter SpM is talking about, Letter 246:
Quote:
In any case a confrontation of Frodo and Sauron would soon have taken place, if the Ring was intact. Its result was inevitable. Frodo would have been utterly overthrown: crushed to dust, or preserved in torment as a gibbering slave. Sauron would not have feared the Ring! It was his own and under his will. Even from afar he had an effect upon it, to make it work for its return to himsefl. In his actual presence none but very few of equal stature could have hoped to withhold it from him. Of "mortals" no one, not even Aragorn. In the contest with the Palantir Aragorn was the rightful owner. Also the contest took place at a distance, and in a tale which allows the incarnation of great spirits in a physical and destructivle form their power must be far greater when actually physically present. Sauron should be thought of as very terrible. The form that he took was that of a man of more than human stature, but not gigantic. In his earlier incarnation he was able to veil his power (as Gandalf did) and could appear as a commanding figure of great strength of body and supremely royal demeanour and countenance.

Of the others only Gandalf might be expected to master him - being an emissary of the Powers and a creature of the same order, an immortal spirit taking a visible physical form. In the "Mirror of Galadriel", it appears that Galadriel conceived of herself as capable of wielding the Ring and supplanting the Dark Lord. IF so, so also were the other guardians of the Three, especially Elrond. But this is another matter. It was part of the essential deceit of the Ring to fill minds with imaginations of supreme power. But this the Great had well considered and had rejected, as is seen in Elrond's words at the Council. Galadriel's rejection of the temptation was founded upon previous thought and resolve. In any case Elrond or Galadriel would have proceeded in the policy now adopted by Sauron: they would have built up an empire with great and absolutely subservient generals and armies and engines of war, until they could challenge Sauron and destroy him by force. Confrontation of Sauron alone, unaided, self to self, was not contemplated
The first paragraph makes clear that no "mortal" would be a challenge for Sauron, not even Aragorn. And it explains how Aragorn was able to challegen Sauron in the palantir. The 2nd paragraph is what SpM talks about, how he might be the only one expected to beat Sauron, if he had the ring.

SpM I agree with you on many points you have made. First, the one I just said in the paragraphs before.

Quote:
The Ring would do its utmost to create instability within Minas Tirith and Gondor so as to make it easier for its Master to reclaim it.
Very true, especially if the ring was in the hands of Boromir, I will have to say, there is a high possibility of a kin-strife. At first, I thought he would have given it to Denethor, but now reading your post, it makes a lot more sense. The Ring would strive to rip Gondor apart, and Boromir just doesn't have that same "will" as Faramir, he wouldn't hand it over.
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