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Old 01-21-2004, 01:35 AM   #1
Arathiriel
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Silmaril Honoring the Hobbits - ROTK spoilers

You know some people may consider me a traitor but I think I love better how the Hobbits were honored in the movie over the way they were honored in the book....<P>First here is how the Hobbits are honored in the book:<P>“As they came to the opening in the wood, they were surprised to see knights in bright mail and tall guards in silver and black standing there, who greeted them with honor and bowed before them. And then one blew a long trumpet, and they went on through the aisle of trees beside the singing spring. So they came to a wide green land, and beyond was a broad river in a silver haze, out of which rose a long wooded isle, and many ships lay by its shores. But on the field where they now stood a great host was drawn up, in ranks and companies glittering in the sun. And as the Hobbits approached swords were unsheathed, and spears were shaken, and horns and trumpets sang, and men cried with many voices and in many tongues:<P>‘Long live the Halfings! Praise them with great praise!<BR>Cuio i Pheriain anann! Aglar’ni Pheriannanth!<BR>Praise them with great praise, Frodo and Samwise!<BR>Daur a Berhael, Conin en Annun! Eglerio!<BR>Praise them!<BR>Eglerio!<BR>A laita te, laita te! Andave laituvalmet!<BR>Praise them!<BR>Cormacolindar, a laita tarienna!<BR>Praise them! The Ring-bearers praise them with great praise!”<P>*skipping ahead just a bit*<P>“Frodo ran to meet him, and Sam followed close behind, ‘Well if this isn’t the crown of all!’ he said. ‘Strider, or I’m still asleep!’<P>‘Yes, Sam, Strider,’ said Aragorn. ‘It is a long way, it is not, from Bree, where you did not like the look of me? A long way for us all, but yours has been the darkest road.’<P>And then to Sam’s surprise and utter confusion he bowed his knee before them; and taking them by the hand, Frodo upon his right and Sam upon his left, he led them to the throne, and setting them upon it, he turned to the men and captains who stood by and spoke, so that his voice rang over the host, crying:<P>‘Praise them with great praise!”<P>–Taken from ‘The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King: The Field of Cormallen’<P>Now, admittedly I LOVED in the book how Frodo and Sam were dressed like princes before the feast in the same chapter - but at the same time I must say the Hobbits in the movie were finely dressed when they returned home to the Shire...<P>Though it was quite shorter in the movie than in the book I found it more moving, poignant to hear Aragorn say the words “My friends, you bow to no one!” and then to see him and everyone else kneel to the Hobbits - That scene is wonderful and has never failed to move me to tears the 3 times I have watched it!
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Old 01-21-2004, 07:57 AM   #2
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It is, by far, my favorite scene in the movie. However, the book was making clear that they were among the great heroes of the land in order to contrast it with their reception in the Shire, I think. That difference wasn't as clear in the movie.
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Old 01-21-2004, 11:54 AM   #3
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Silmaril

While I did like the scene in the movie, I have to say that I still like the book version better. You left out another important part, and one of my favorite Sam lines: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> A minstrel of Gondor stood forth, and knelt, and begged leave to sing. And behold! he said "...now listen to my lay. For I will sing to you of Frodo of the Nine Fingers and the Ring of Doom."<P> And when Sam heard that he laughed aloud for sheer delight, and he stood up and cried: "O great glory and splendor! And all my wishes have come true!"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I absolutely love this line, which is only in the book. I think that Sam would have been incredibly embarrased to have people bowing to him, but to hear someone sing praise to Frodo, that would indeed fill his heart. <P>I also like how in the book, Frodo hands Gandalf the crown for Aragorn (not Gimli, which I still don't understand!)
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Old 01-22-2004, 01:18 PM   #4
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I have said this before, but I felt it inappropriate in the film that all four hobbits were honoured in the same way. In my mind, the bowing should have been reserved for the Ringbearers only.
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Old 01-22-2004, 01:34 PM   #5
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I have said this before, but I felt it inappropriate in the film that all four hobbits were honoured in the same way. In my mind, the bowing should have been reserved for the Ringbearers only. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, Frodo did destroy the Ring, but not without Sam's help. And I think it was right for Merry and Pippin to be honored as well. Merry helped slay one of the Enemy's most dangerous servants, and Pippin did save Faramir...
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Old 01-23-2004, 12:10 AM   #6
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Yes, Frodo did destroy the Ring, but not without Sam's help <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I think that Lalaith was including Sam in the "ringbearer" category along with Frodo, since he did carry the ring for a time.<P>Lalaith, I totally agree with you. While I think that it was appropriate for Merry and Pippen to be honored for their contributions, it should not have been the same as for Frodo and Sam.
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Old 01-23-2004, 12:58 AM   #7
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Silmaril

I loved that "My friends, you bow to no one!" Aragorn in that moment reminded me of my big brother. I've always looked up to him, and somehow, I just thought of my brother when he got that earnest look on his face. So it was like Aragorn was like a brother to the hobbits. And that song was kinda, uh... Let's just say I didn't miss it.<P>And, yes! Give Sean Astin the Oscar.<p>[ 1:59 AM January 23, 2004: Message edited by: Quirkette ]
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Old 01-23-2004, 04:23 AM   #8
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Sting

And then to Sam’s surprise and utter confusion he bowed his knee before them;<P>That line in the book, and the kneeling in the film never fail to being a tear to my eye. (OK, I cry like a baby.....) It really is one of the most powerful lines in the book.<P>They were both brilliantly done, one worked perfectly in the book, and the other as a piece of film.<P>I agree that it would have been better to kneel just to Frodo and Sam, but I can forgive Jackson this slight change. <P>PS the reason why Jackson didn't have Frodo hand the crown to Gandalf is how on earth could we then have the kneeling scene? One second Frodo's on top of the stairs with the cushion, the next minute he's run round to join the other Hobbits!
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Old 01-23-2004, 05:59 AM   #9
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Sting

PJ's way of honoring the hobbits in the movie is really moving and tearjerking. no words could really describe the look on the hobbit's faces (or on my face) when everybody bowed before them. it was a mixture of all feelings of some sorts (i was just overwhelmed). i have to agree that while merry and pippin also deserve praise for their bravery, it could have been made a little less prominent than that for sam and frodo. (i guess PJ just made it an all-in-one bowing to address the time limitations, maybe, and to avoid any more bowing fuss.) <P>as for gimli, the crownbearer, still puzzles me no end. glad to know I am not alone. i couldn't help but agree again with essex that it would have been funny seeing frodo there holding the crown cushion then later seeing him with the hobbits, unless PJ makes extra effort to show that frodo walked all his way from the front to where the rest of the hobbits are. and i'm veering away from the topic already...
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Old 01-23-2004, 09:16 AM   #10
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Sting

I loved the scene in the movie much better than the way it was handled in the books, though I enjoyed both versions. I felt that it was too drawn out in the books. Though they certainly deserved all that celebration, at the same time it started to get a little repetitive after a while. The scene in the movie was simple and touching, though yes, a bit cliched. <P>During that scene, though, I leaned over to my friend and whispered, "There's one for the short people!" In his ear . . . that was amusing.
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Old 01-23-2004, 11:31 AM   #11
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Sting

My friend and I had similar thoughts,Linaeve. My friend,well...she is really really short. She could pass for a tall Hobbit and she calls me an elf because she thinks I am too tall. I am really not that tall only about 5'7" (or 1.67m I think) but I tower over her and she hates that. Well when everyone bowed to the Hobbits she was like, "Oh cool! Short people rock! I rock!" I have to agree. <BR> So we were happy all of them were honored; they each took one for the team.
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Old 01-23-2004, 08:39 PM   #12
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> They were both brilliantly done, one worked perfectly in the book, and the other as a piece of film. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Spot on, Essex. The book episode is wonderful, but it would have over-burdened an already overly long sequence of "wrap up" scenes. And is it just me, or does anyone else think that "Praise him with great praise" would have sounded vaguely Pythonesque on screen? <P>As for Gimli, well he could hardly stand in the crowd looking pretty like Legolas and his pals, nor could he be honoured with the Hobbits. So why not let him have his moment with the crown?
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Old 01-26-2004, 02:06 PM   #13
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> For I will sing to you of Frodo of the Nine Fingers and the Ring of Doom." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>*cringes* I love that scene in the book because of Sam's wish, but I am glad it was not in the movie. In my little niche of friends, I got to be known as Frodo because of my love for the dear hobbit and my obvious reaction to seeing Elijah the first time in the theatre. I don't even want to think about what they're reaction would have been. It was bad enough already for my friends who have read the books...<P>I am very fond of the bowing scene in the movie. It honors the hobbits really well. But I do agree somewhat about Merry and Pippin. I'm not sure if there was some way to resolve it in the movies, it's just one of those things that will bug me, I guess. But then again, why should Frodo be honored after all? He decided at the last moment to take the ring for himself and not do the deed. *sigh* I love when I contradict myself...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>"Praise him with great praise" would have sounded vaguely Pythonesque on screen?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>*laughs* True, but not as much as Aragorn at Amon Hen going..."On second thought, let's not go to Gondor, it is a silly place."<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>As for Gimli, well he could hardly stand in the crowd looking pretty like Legolas and his pals, nor could he be honoured with the Hobbits. So why not let him have his moment with the crown?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Ah yes, but I was so forward to seeing Gandalf and Frodo doing their little thing, maybe with a poignant look at Frodo's finger or something.....<p>[ 3:07 PM January 26, 2004: Message edited by: Sleeping Beauty ]
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Old 01-26-2004, 02:47 PM   #14
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Sting

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>But then again, why should Frodo be honored after all? He decided at the last moment to take the ring for himself and not do the deed. *sigh* I love when I contradict myself...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> A dangerous question to ask, <B>Sleeping Beauty</B>! And if you truly <I>are</I> the "Frodo" of your group, you need to read this thread to fully appreciate the complexities of what you've just said (or just to make your head hurt a little--I couldn't resist it myself and now I'm addicted to headache powders! ) Anyway, the link: <BR><A HREF="http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=002740" TARGET=_blank>Frodo at Sammath Naur</A> . <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I also like how in the book, Frodo hands Gandalf the crown for Aragorn (not Gimli, which I still don't understand!)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I do wish they had kept the structure of Aragorn's crowning, with the Ringbearer handing the crown to Mithrandir, who sets it upon Aragorn's head. Thus played, the idea of his ascension to the Kingship being facilitated by many (and the implied nature of their labors as well) would be quite well illustrated, but I suppose Gimli deserves a little time in the spotlight as well! <P>Cheers,<BR>Lyta<p>[ 3:48 PM January 26, 2004: Message edited by: Lyta_Underhill ]
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Old 01-26-2004, 03:01 PM   #15
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Though I have to say I like the Book version better, the movie version is also incredibly moving. The line "My friends, you bow to no one." is one of my favorite lines in the whole movie. It worked really well and I don't think it would have worked if they tried to do it the Book way in the movie. It is also one of my favorite scenes in the book. I didn't really like the look on Merry and Pippin's faces. It looked like one of them was going to say something stupid. (I thought they were actually...)<P>I don't think Merry and Pippin should have been honored in the same way, but I think if they had tried to split it up and do Merry and Pippin in one way and Frodo and Sam in another, it would have made the scene too complex. It would not have been nearly as an amazing and moving scene that they have when they did all four hobbits together.
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Old 02-02-2004, 12:35 PM   #16
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Aragorn at Amon Hen going..."On second thought, let's not go to Gondor, it is a silly place."<BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>LOL that's a funny thought.<P>Anyway I like both the movie and book version. They are very different yet they still get the same message home. The world of men would always be thankful for what the hobbits had done in a time when no-one else could.<p>[ 1:36 PM February 02, 2004: Message edited by: Lathriel ]
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Old 02-17-2004, 09:20 AM   #17
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Silmaril

I always thought they had Gimli hand Aragorn the crown so that all of the Fellowship could have a role in the coronation. You can work Legolas and the hobbits' little moments into the scene very easily, but what's poor Gimli to do? Well, he can hand Aragorn the crown. I thought it was kind of a nice gesture to make up for the terrible ways they maligned poor Gimli's character in TTT.

Of course, I still liked the book better. I love how Sam gets to hear the minstrel sing about Frodo, because it's just exactly what he was talking about earlier, when he wondered if anyone would ever write songs or tales about their adventure. Also, I just really love Sam . . .

One thing I thought was really terrific about the movie version was the way the hobbits reacted to having everybody bow down before them and honour them. They looked very uneasy (except for Pippin, who looked rather excited). I thought that was a nice little touch to show that, though they had done great deeds, they were still hobbit-like in nature, and far more comfortable in their own quiet home than in the midst of great glory in the court of the King.
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Old 02-18-2004, 03:50 PM   #18
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I was always felt uneasy with the whole bowing part in the book. It annoyed me that we'd been through so much with Merry and Pippin, but they weren't honoured as Frodo and Sam were. Yes, I understand that they hadn't done much more than the soldiers of Rohan and Gondor, but this isn't my common sense speaking, this is just something I feel isn't right.

Of course, this could just be my blatant favouritism of Pippin, or my rebellious streak making me want to honour the people who no one else is honouring. But when I read the books it makes me feel torn in two, one part saying that it's fair, the other part saying that it's not.

But now I've got the movie to cover all my hobbit-loving needs. It makes me feel a lot better.
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Old 02-19-2004, 04:48 PM   #19
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I'm a bit of both. I really liked the book version and everything (esp. the part with the song and Sam being happy ) but I also really like the movie version. Actually, I must say I like the movie version just a tad bit more. I just love the feeling of that scene! It always makes me smile and want to cry; it's just so touching. Also, I like how Merry and Pippin were honored too, granted they may not have gone to Mordor and back, but for two young hobbits they did a lot of courageous things and deserved about as much honor as Frodo and Sam recieved.
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Old 02-21-2004, 09:37 AM   #20
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I don't know if anyone else has thought of this... but Merry and Pippin WOULD have gone with Frodo and Sam if they could... wasn't like they had a choice to be either carried off by Uruk-Hai or following Frodo and Sam, was it? I think all four hobbits had been through a lot and had all had a part to play in saving Middle Earth and destroying the Ring.
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Old 02-21-2004, 09:46 AM   #21
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Yes, but what is it to the Gondorians if Merry and Pippin would've gone with Frodo and Sam if they could, I'm sure most of them standing there would have defeated Sauron single handedly if they could, it wasn't their fault that they didn't get the chance (and weren't strong enough).

Anyway, if Merry and Pippin had've gone then Pippin wouldn't have distracted Sauron by looking in the palantir, but this id a different topic so I'll shut up now.
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Old 02-23-2004, 10:02 AM   #22
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Quote:
Also, I like how Merry and Pippin were honored too, granted they may not have gone to Mordor and back, but for two young hobbits they did a lot of courageous things and deserved about as much honor as Frodo and Sam recieved.
I posted earlier on in this debate, forgiving Jackson having Aragorn bow to the 4 hobbits, but on 3rd viewing (ie not bawling my eyes out like a baby) I noticed that Jackson does a slow zoom in on first Frodo and Sam, and then directly onto Frodo, showing us (I think) Jackson's slant on who the bow was mostly intended for. To me this works splendidly.

But fair point to the quoter above. Without Merry and Pippin we would have had no Ents assiting at Helm's Deep (via the Hourns) and Isengard. No distraction for Sauron in the Palantir, no death of the Witch King (and thus maybe no one alive in Minas Tirith), no Faramir to wed Eoywn to join the houses of Gondor and Rohan (indeed no Eoywn either!), etc.

But then with No frodo and Sam, we would have No Middle-earth as we know it. Sorry, Frodo and Sam win hands down!
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Old 02-26-2004, 06:26 PM   #23
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I quite like it better in the movie. I feel that all the hobbits should've been honered, and that was so touching. "You bow to no one". That line fit Aragorn, and seeing the hobbit's faces was almost funny.
Though I do feel that they should've had the part with Sam's line, with all his wishes had came true now.
It was so touching to see everyone kneel to the hobbits, Aragorn included, and with him as the king. That had to have been my favorate part, and it fit. I could see Tolkien writing a scene like that too.
I have to say that the book scene just wasn't enough; that the movie filled that in quite nicely.
Now... maybe in the Extended Version...
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Old 02-27-2004, 10:54 PM   #24
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don't worry. you're not a traitor. the movie was beautiful, and i did enjoy the honor of hobbits, but i think the point was that you could never thank them enough for what they went through. theirs was the most miserable and mortifying road of all. but of course the movie was more generous, because it was the ending to a movie. and everything is either dramatized or completely left out in movies. so yeah. of course, someone's probably going to prove me wrong about this too.
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Old 04-07-2004, 05:31 PM   #25
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I read RotK awhile back so I reread the part where the Hobbits were honored. I love it in the book, but that scene in the movie was so well done. I thought I was going to cry. I know that the honor should have been placed more on Sam and Frodo, but I love my Merry and Pippin which is why I like the movie version better. It also reminded me of the end of Mulan where all of China bows to her. So for many a reason I love the movie's version better. Please don't think me a traitor, but I ca't help it, the scene moved me.
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Old 04-07-2004, 06:37 PM   #26
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I honestly think that the book and movie versions are great. The book scene wouldn't fit in the movie and vice versa, but each are perfect for their respective places. (I hope this makes sense)
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Old 04-07-2004, 09:24 PM   #27
Eowyn Skywalker
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Shield

That makes perfect sense to me. I must agree.

And, yeah, the sense did remind me of the one in Mulan. A lot.

Hmmm... interesting. *Goes off and contamplates*

I rather liked that scene; still do. I thought that it fit.

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Old 04-07-2004, 11:25 PM   #28
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I think that, more than anything, Gimli handing Gandalf the crown was to give closure to the fellowship, and indeed all the main characters. Aragorn is being crowned, Gandalf is crowning, the four hobbits are being honoured, Legolas is leading the elven entourage, Eowyn and Faramir are together, we see Eomer, we see Arwen finally reunited with Aragorn, and later we see Elrond, Galadriel and Bilbo, and so they have Gimli hand Gandalf the crown. Simple solution, and in a way, it works subconsiously, because Dwarves have a love of all things crafted out of metal.
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Old 04-08-2004, 10:07 AM   #29
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I liked both, for different reasons.

In the book, the Fields of Cormallen stand out in sharp contrast to the welcome the hobbits recieve in the Shire. It made me cry when Aragorn put them on his throne.

In the movie, the homage they recieve is no less. It also made me cry.

Yes, I'm a sap. What of it?!?!?

Anyway! !

In both, it served the purpose that it was assigned, and more.
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