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Old 07-03-2005, 08:33 PM   #1
Folwren
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Tolkien When did you cry?

We've had a 'When did you laugh' thread, and that's still towards the top of the threads. I glanced through the first few pages and I saw no topics on this...if I'm mistaken I'm sure someone will comment.

One of the most fascinating things about Tolkien's works is the ability he had to draw a reader into the story and makes him totally connect to his characters. And when a writer can do that, if he has an audience as emotionally based as some of us (I can point to myself for one), he can make his main character cry and have some of us crying with him, even if it's just for a moment. I know that not everyone is quite like that, but I wouldn't be surprised if many of us here have cried at least once in the many times that we've read The Hobbit and the LotR. I was curious to know what part you thought was the saddest.

For me, it's an easy answer - The Grey Havens. The third time I read the books, I came to the last chapter, read the title, and tears started to come.

But the last half of The Choices of Master Samwise is a close runner up.
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Old 07-03-2005, 09:35 PM   #2
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I always found Theoden's death to be a truly sad part. But never to the point of tears on my part.
However when Sam believes Frodo is dead, well that is just powerful literature. Sam is so broken up and in the course of the books we come to know and love Sam and feel his pain at this.
And of course the Grey Havens. It's the end of the novel, it's the end of Gandalf, Bilbo, and Frodo's life in Middle-Earth. And finally Sam must say good-bye to Frodo. So sad.
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Old 07-03-2005, 09:46 PM   #3
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Both in movie and books the Grey Havens get me choked up but not really crying.

Another is when Frodo takes the task upon himself and Elrond compares him to other mortals such as Hurin, Turin and Beren. That is extremely emotionally.

Finally a third I can remember that gets me choked up is when Samwise carries Frodo up Mt. Doom...I just love that little guy.
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Old 07-04-2005, 02:59 AM   #4
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Thinlómien is wading through the Dead Marshes.Thinlómien is wading through the Dead Marshes.Thinlómien is wading through the Dead Marshes.Thinlómien is wading through the Dead Marshes.Thinlómien is wading through the Dead Marshes.Thinlómien is wading through the Dead Marshes.
No one has yet mentioned the part that always makes me cry: in Cirith Ungol, when Gollum is like a hobbit again for a few frail moments and as Sam awakes it's gone forever.
And many times I've cried when the rohirrim enter the battle of Pelennor fields. (Well that's not due to grief... )
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Old 07-04-2005, 02:59 AM   #5
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sam singing his song when he had lost all hope at the top of the tower at cirith ungol

merry asking pippin "are you going to bury me?" after his battle with the WK

gandalf meeting up with the hobbits and commenting on Merry " He should have been borne in honour into the city"

eowyn saying to eomer that merry should becomae a knight of the riddermark.

pippin being 'killed' at the gates of mordor (well, the first time I read it I thought he was - I still remember laying in bed in my little bedroom as a kid reading the scene for the first time late at night - I burst into tears) - but when I saw him serving drinks and food to sam and frodo on the field of cormallen I was overjoyed!

aragorn getting down on his knee and praising Frodo and Sam on the field of cormallen

the grey havens of course, and Gandalf's immortal line.

and even the APPENDICIES! the tale of the years, and the ongoing events of the fellowship - when aragorn was laid to rest, and it was said that the "beds of Meriadoc and Pergrin were set beside the bed of the great king" gets me welling up every time I read it.
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Old 07-04-2005, 03:05 AM   #6
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Thinlómien is wading through the Dead Marshes.Thinlómien is wading through the Dead Marshes.Thinlómien is wading through the Dead Marshes.Thinlómien is wading through the Dead Marshes.Thinlómien is wading through the Dead Marshes.Thinlómien is wading through the Dead Marshes.
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Originally Posted by Essex
the grey havens of course, and Gandalf's immortal line.
Ouch! I forgot that lovely immortal line! I even once did a cartoon "Istari and the threat of a nuclear power plant" and those are Gandalf's last lines in there also...
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Old 07-05-2005, 07:53 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Essex
and even the APPENDICIES! the tale of the years, and the ongoing events of the fellowship - when aragorn was laid to rest, and it was said that the "beds of Meriadoc and Pergrin were set beside the bed of the great king" gets me welling up every time I read it.
And when Frodo leaves because of his own grief and pain but he thinks by leaving, Sam will not be torn. And Sam has his life with Rosie and all the family but sails on to Frodo at the end and we don't know what he finds. (I'm sorry, I'm crying now as I type). I don't really want to know, but is Frodo still alive ? Bilbo probably has long passed but Frodo wasn't that much older, but well, one never knows.

And did Legolas and Gimli reach there in their boat? Have they all met up?And how sad for Gandalf (I think) and Legolas being immortal seeing Gimli, Frodo and Sam's death.
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Old 07-05-2005, 08:06 AM   #8
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Silmaril

Quote:
Originially posted by Holbytlass
And when Frodo leaves because of his own grief and pain but he thinks by leaving, Sam will not be torn. And Sam has his life with Rosie and all the family but sails on to Frodo at the end and we don't know what he finds. (I'm sorry, I'm crying now as I type). I don't really want to know, but is Frodo still alive ? Bilbo probably has long passed but Frodo wasn't that much older, but well, one never knows.
That is so sad!! I never thought about that being possible. I honestly think that Frodo was still alive and that Tolkien wouldn't have sent Sam across if there as no hope to be able to live with Frodo for at least a little while.

And I'm sorry to appear ignorant, but which is Gandalf's immortal line?
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Old 07-05-2005, 08:38 AM   #9
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When else, my doves, but Boromir's last minute redemption and subsequent death? The song following had me weeping prettily (I couldn't sob, or I wouldn't have been able to read, and what's more important?). I mean... Boromir was such a nice guy, and it's not like it was his fault he wasn't emotionally stable enough to be near a power of evil unlike anything he had ever known.
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Old 07-05-2005, 09:21 AM   #10
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gandalf's immortal line, and the penultimate spoken words in LOTR

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Well, here at last, dear friends, on the shores of the Sea comes the end of our fellowship in Middle-earth. Go in peace! I will not say: do not weep; for not all tears are an evil.
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Old 07-05-2005, 10:00 AM   #11
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Silmaril

The grey havens for me too and also when Frodo takes the task on himself.
I also get really choked when poor old Bill gets packed off (I'm a bit emotional!)
Also Gollum's few seconds of hobbitness again like Thinlómien said. (In Cirith Ungol) Actually I agree with all of Thinlómien's comments!
much love
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Old 07-05-2005, 10:51 AM   #12
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Thank you, Essex, I half guessed that was it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil
When else, my doves, but Boromir's last minute redemption and subsequent death? The song following had me weeping prettily (I couldn't sob, or I wouldn't have been able to read, and what's more important?). I mean... Boromir was such a nice guy, and it's not like it was his fault he wasn't emotionally stable enough to be near a power of evil unlike anything he had ever known.
First couple times I read it that part had me crying, too. I'm glad to hear that you like Boromir - so many people don't.
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Old 07-05-2005, 10:54 AM   #13
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I'm moving this and the companion "When did you laugh" thread to the Novices and Newcomers forum. As they are not actual in-depth discussions of the books, they're great for a wider participation. Keep on sharing there!
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Old 07-05-2005, 12:25 PM   #14
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Bits that made me cry or at least got me choked up (no order):

The Grey Havens

When Sam sees that the Party Tree has been cut down

Theoden's death

When Sam is left outside the stone gate knowing Frodo is alive but unable to get to him

When we see hobbitness in Gollum for the last time

Frodo and Sam talking about being torn

The description of how the eagles see Frodo and Sam as they are crawling down Mount Doom

Boromir's death

Thats all I can think of for now but the worst was definitely the Grey Havens. I began crying at the beginning of the chapter and was still going by "Well, I'm home."
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Old 07-05-2005, 02:43 PM   #15
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Eye

How has no one mentioned the Rohirrim riding to Gondor's rescue?

From Gandalf's POV-
Quote:
'Old fool!' he said. 'Old fool! This is my hour. Do you not know Death when you see it? Die now and curse in vain!' And with that he lifted high his sword and flames ran down the blade.

Gandalf did not move. And in that very moment, away behind in some courtyard of the City, a cock crowed. Shrill and clear he crowed, recking nothing of wizardry or war, welcoming only the morning that in they sky far above the shadows of death was coming with the dawn.
And as if in answer there came from far away another note. Horns, horns, horns. In dark Mindolluin's side they dimly echoed. Great horns of the North wildly blowing. Rohan had come at last.
From Merry's POV-
Quote:
And straightway all the horns in the host were lifted up in music, and the blowing of the horns of Rohan in that hour was like a storm upon the plain and a thunder in the mountains.
Ride now, ride now! Ride to Gondor!
From Pippin's POV-
Quote:
But Pippin rose to his feet, as if a great weight had been lifted from him; and he stood listening to the horns, and it seemed to him that they would break his heart with joy. And never in after years could he hear a horn blown in the distance without tears starting in his eyes.
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Old 07-05-2005, 02:50 PM   #16
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This didn't quite make me cry, but it did stir a lot of emotion, same as with the phantom. It's a great way to end a chapter.

Quote:
Gandalf did not move. and in that very moment, away behind in some courtyard of the City, a cock crowed. Shrill and clear he crowed, recking nothing of wizardry or war, welcoming only the morning that in the sky far above the shadows of death was coming withthe dawn.
And as if in answer there came from far away another note. Horns, horns, horns. In dark Mindolluin's sides they dimly echoed. Great horns of the North wildly blowing. Rohan had come at last.
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Old 07-05-2005, 03:20 PM   #17
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That part was definitely emotionally stirirng. Tolkien was such an awesome writer.

But that part has, possibly, more to it than......well, never mind, that's for another discussion.
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Old 07-05-2005, 07:18 PM   #18
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Quote:
How has no one mentioned the Rohirrim riding to Gondor's rescue?
Are you trying to get me to admit being sentimental? I was in a hurry (had to go shopping, you know) and only had time to write one emotional moment. The death of my favorite character was it. Would you like the other times that had me teared up?

The Council of Elrond, when Frodo accepted responsibility for the Ring. He could not possibly understand, and he knew that he did not understand, and yet he took upon himself a task that those far more powerful than he dared not.

When Gandalf fell in Moria (that was a first time only weeping). Much like when Mufasa died in The Lion King, I was left crying quietly and muttering to myself "How could he die when they need him so very much?"

Boromir's death, and Aragorn's promise to him. Cemented by the song. I read this chapter about an hour before I went and saw FotR in theatres and my cousin found me crying in her brother's room (I'd been reading his books) and looked at me like I'd grown another head.

The last march of the Ents, when they attack Isengard, I teared up. There's something about cutting down trees that makes me feel quite ill, so when they struck back, I was ecstatic.

When the Rohirrim arrived at Minas Tirith. That is possibly my favorite passage, as you see the last bit of weakness in Theoden and then he casts it aside to ride foremost into a battle that they cannot expect to win. The horn that exploded upon the force of his blow, the dawn, the change in the wind. It's such a poignant scene that I bawl every time.

Sam, on Mount Doom, talking about Rosie Cotten. That scene kills me in the movie... "Rosie Cotten dancin' with ribbons in her hair." Even in the midst of all the tragedy, Sam recognizes the small things in life, and accepts that they'll never be. Of course that's when the Eagles comes, which has me crying even harder, because it's the whole acceptance of your crummy fate and then being saved from it all over again.

The Grey Havens. I don't know if I was crying because the Fellowship was finally officially dissolved, or if it was because the book was over and I didn't want the story to end, but I teared up.

There, are you happy now? I've gone and admitted to the world that the greatest author ever to write was quite capable of grabbing me up by the emotion and roller-coastering me through a world of his creation.
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Old 07-05-2005, 07:37 PM   #19
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In the Silmarillion I get emotional often when I read of Turin. His tragic slaying of Beleg and when he goes to the lake again and find that he cannot be healed there again. And finally in his utter despair, killing himself.
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Old 07-06-2005, 08:33 AM   #20
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Fingolfin's death was just plain cool. I mean... he challenged Morgoth to single combat... and Morgoth came. That's most certainly my favorite passage from the Silm, and when Fingolfin finally falls, I tend to tear up. I really like Fingolfin.
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Old 07-06-2005, 08:44 AM   #21
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That was a really cool part with Fingolfin. He's actually one of my favorite elves and it was very upsetting when he died.
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Old 07-06-2005, 08:59 AM   #22
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Very true about Fingolfin. I haven't cried during the books, but there are many instances when I feel all shivery at the coolness of it all. Fingolfin's death was one of them.
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Old 07-06-2005, 09:31 AM   #23
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I agree with you TGWBS. Another death that gets to me is Thingol and the rift is causes between the dwarves and elves...Greed and pride ruined many in that day.
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Old 07-06-2005, 10:09 AM   #24
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Let's not forget the proud death of Feanor, at the van of his folk. Oh, and the release of Maedhros from Thangorodrim.
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Old 07-06-2005, 10:29 AM   #25
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I guess I don't get too sad about the death of Feanor. I don't think him to be the great person that many do. So I feel that perhaps his death is more earned than others. But agreed Maedros release is very emotional.
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Old 07-10-2005, 08:03 AM   #26
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from the Fellowship of the Ring...

From Strider:
Quote:
'But I am the real Strider, fortunately,' he said, looking down at them with his face softened by a sudden smile. 'I am Aragorn son of Arathorn; and if by life or death I can save you, I will.'
From The Council of Elrond:
Quote:
An overwhelming longing to rest and remain at peace by Bilbo's side in Rivendell filled all his heart. At last with an effort he spoke, and wondered to hear his own words, as if some other will was using his small voice.
'I will take the Ring,' he said, 'though I do not know the way.'
The whole exchange between Gimli son of Glóin and Galadriel, starting with her words, 'He would be rash indeed that said that thing,' straight through to her gift of the three strands of hair and her "not" foretelling that over Gimli gold would have no dominion. It's grace; she wakens something wonderful in him that makes it possible for him to become a close friend of Legolas, among other things. An unlovely dwarf who has a gift for words? I guess I really identify with him.

And the death of Boromir.
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Old 07-10-2005, 09:35 AM   #27
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In the book where Faramir says that even if he saw the Ring lying by the roadside he would not take it. That just struck me as incredibly noble and though I didn't cry it stirred up some strong emotions.
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Old 07-10-2005, 10:02 AM   #28
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I never cried in the books or the films, but when I first read the books I got very upset when I thought Frodo was dead when the spider had him wrapped up for dinner. It was close enough to the end to be just possible.

Of course we know he wasn't dead after all.

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Old 07-13-2005, 03:47 PM   #29
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I never cried at either the books or the film, but there were some moving moments, I won't repeat them all because they're all mentioned above.

But I do remember when reading the book for the first time being REALLY gutted when I'd finished reading it. I was so immersed in the world it was really weird for it to finally be over.
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Old 07-14-2005, 08:24 AM   #30
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Perhaps that's one reason why so many of us find The Grey Havens so sad...because it's the end. It really is very sad when a good book ends. But, you have to be happy that the ending was at least good. It's worse reading through an awesome book and then coming to a pathetic and poor ending... For instance, The Count of Monte Cristo is a really good book, but the ending is not so good. Whereas, the LotR is also a really good book, and its ending is one of the best endings I've ever read. (One of the saddest, too.)
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Old 07-14-2005, 09:05 AM   #31
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I think it's fair to say that the book has been dubbed by critics that the ending is very anti-climactic, and yes to an extent it is, but it is really the only fitting end to it all, and yes, a very moving moment. One that's unforgettable.
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Old 07-14-2005, 02:26 PM   #32
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Let's see I usually cry from this line,
Quote:
When Mr. Bilbo Baggins of Bag End announced that he would shortly be celebrating his eleventy-first birthday with a party of special magnificence, there was much talk and excitement in Hobbiton.
to
Quote:
He (Sam) drew a deep breath. 'Well, I'm back,' he said.
I think it's just the sheer joy of reading Tolkien.

But to be honest, I cry here,
Quote:
'Fight?' said Frodo. 'Well, I suppose it may come to that. But remember: there is to be no slaying of hobbits, not even if they have gone over to the other side. Really gone over I mean; not just obeying ruffians' orders because they are frightened. No hobbit has ever killed another on purpose in the Shire, and it is not to begin now. And nobody is to be killed at all, if it can be helped. Keep your tempers and hold your hands to the last possible moment!'
The mention of killing hobbits makes me upset and Frodo seems so noble and just, I can't help it. Though most of the Scouring of the shire makes me cry, like when Sam sees the party tree cut down. When he's replanting all the trees with Galadriel's gift, I cry there too. Maybe I'm just emotional because I cry at all of the other places mentioned too. Even the death of Gandalf, though I know he's going to come back. At Lothlorien because the elves are so fair and when Boromir dies. I'll just leave it as I cry through most of the book; the happy and the sad.
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Old 07-14-2005, 08:45 PM   #33
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I'd no idea that it was possible to find so many people at least as emotional while reading books as I!! It's almost cool.

I really have to be honest and say that I feel sorry for people like my sister who don't get into books that much. It's rather sad in itself.
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Old 07-28-2005, 03:36 AM   #34
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The part that made me cry is when i first read the book is when gandalf falls into the mines of moria and they all think he is dead.

when arawen says that she would live a mortal life ratherther than endure all the ages with out aragorn

in the appendices when Arawen says "I gave all my hope for you i have none for myself."
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Old 07-28-2005, 11:38 AM   #35
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I still cry when I read "Farewell to Lorien", especially when the Fellowship has the impression that it is Lothlorien that is being taken away from them, and not they who are leaving. I also cry at the Argonath, when Aragorn confesses that he misses his home. And, of course, at Boromir's death, and at the distruction of the Ring, and at Aragorn's coronation. Oh, and I also cry at "The Grey Havens". These are but a few scenes, and many others have been already said. There are a lot of moving moments in this book. It would take many days for me to say all of them.
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Old 07-28-2005, 11:49 AM   #36
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Silmaril

u can call me insensitive, whatnot
but though i grew infinitly connected to tolkiens whole world (w/ some pj influences)
...i can't say i was crying. just was adventurous and exciting (i got choked on grey havens...sniffles)
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Old 07-28-2005, 02:59 PM   #37
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I found myself crying when rereading the FOTR. The part where Frodo and Gandalf are reunited in Rivendell. A bit of happiness before sadness.
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Old 07-28-2005, 03:02 PM   #38
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Oh how could I have forgotten this bit! When the Fellowship are together for the very last time and then they never all meet up again. Just the pure sadness that permeates from the words, you can feel that they would all be choking up and so so sad to part.
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Old 07-28-2005, 05:08 PM   #39
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Silmaril

I cried several times, but I think I cried the hardest (and still do sometimes) at The Grey Havens. I think this was mostly because I can relate to it. I had to go through the same thing in leaving my friends recently.
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Old 08-05-2005, 06:01 PM   #40
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I cried for DAYS about the Gray Havens--you would have thought that Frodo would be able to enjoy his time after his quest was finished, but that was taken from him too. I think that was the most poignant part for me--it didn't seem fair. He did not seem happy even as he was going to the Gray Havens. Also when Sam notes that Frodo did not receive much renown or respect in the Shire itself upon his return was very sad.

I also found the part where Arwen gives her seat on the boat to Frodo quite emotional. It was more or less making her choice final.

The part where Sam thinks Frodo is dead and debates his choices made me cry as well. He was so filled with despair that he considerred hurling himself off the cliff rather than live without Frodo.

Boromir's funeral was very touching to me, but knowing his fall before it, his death did not touch me as much.

The description of Dernhelm (Eowyn disguised in armour) as Merry rode by--the utter despair on her face, seeking death.

Faramir's departure for Osgiliath with a bleak outlook, without his father's blessing/love, knowing that his father would have rather had him die in Boromir's place. The movie did a great job with this part of the story I thought.

There may be others I don't remember now, but I think this is a big part of what makes this story great: the ability to stir emotions.
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