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Old 12-16-2003, 12:51 PM   #1
Estelyn Telcontar
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Silmaril **RotK - Battle of Pelennor Fields**

How did you like the filming of the battle?
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Old 12-17-2003, 02:18 PM   #2
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I thought it was exciting, although quite different from the book. I especially didn't like Aragorn's arrival to the field, barely anything was made of it. I would have preferred a Galadriel voiceover;<P>"Thus came Aragorn, son of Arathorn......"<P>and you know the rest. I thought Theoden's death could have been about ten times more effective had it been done by the book.<P>Despite those quibbles, the action was very good. Death of the Witch King was pretty good, and Legolas's stunt was suitably over-the-top. No Dunedain though, Army of the Dead over-used.<P>No real elation at the end. And who on Earth was that pig who was commanding the Orcs?
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Old 12-17-2003, 02:27 PM   #3
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Eomer, love your voiceover idea. You should be a director! <P>Pretty well done, I'd have to say, although I agree with Eomer about Theoden's death, and also about the Army of the Dead. As they attacked, my friend leaned over and whispered to me, "Omigod, it's a plague of locusts!" The Legolas stunt was great, as promised - good times had by all.<P>I can forgive them for the lack of Dunedain and such, though, and for making it different from the book. I was sort of expecting it to be different anyway.<P>Loved the Oliphaunts!
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Old 12-17-2003, 02:39 PM   #4
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> And who on Earth was that pig who was commanding the Orcs?<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I was wondering the same thing, he was really very bad done, even for an orc, it was terrible. He reminded me of that guy from the Goonies, you know, the brother of the bad guys, he really looked like him...<P>I liked the battle scene a lot! I have never seen anything like it. I also liked(although "liked" isn't really the right word to use) the catapulting of the heads.
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Old 12-18-2003, 12:11 AM   #5
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Overall, smashing good battle. As was promised, I've never seen anything quite like it on film, and it did indeed make Helm's Deep look much smaller. Still darker, but smaller. The battering rams just didn't even compare. <P>Complaints, same as above (though I was happy enough with Theoden's death... not as good as Boromir's though, mainly because it lacked after-effects. You know, Eowyn cried over him and that's the last anyone ever mentioned. I have a feeling they will dwell more on it in the EE, so I'm shrugging about it for now).<P>It was too sunny... and the end of it seemed rushed. You know, THE battle of the ages and it seemed like they were marching on the Black Gate in a couple hours. Plus, the time that was spent on the battlefield afterwards lacked Gondorians, Rohirrim, and dead bodies of assorted races. It was just the main characters and the army of the dead on the conspicuously green grass.<P>I think the Extended Version will change part of that one aspect, as the whole Houses of Healing stuff (that I <I>know</I> they filmed) will provide a better "Pelennor is over and we're regrouping" feel.
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Old 12-18-2003, 01:02 AM   #6
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Catapult v trebuchet.
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Old 12-18-2003, 01:25 AM   #7
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I actually kinda liked the inclusion of the pig-orc. It personified (orc-ified?) the bad guys and really made it seem as if the doom of Men was nigh - Sgt. Pig says some words to that effect, and then you see that huge expanse of evil creatures and the insurmountable odds... it makes the despair of Gondor real to the viewer. Also, isn't the piggy one the same guy who orders the heads yet thrown back over the walls? I think it was brilliant to choose such a foul creature to zero in on - that way it was impossible to sit there thinking "duh...there are a bunch of bad guys...cool, check out the effects!" The way the scene hit me was "these guys are *evil*....holy God, the fate of the human race (and *good*) is at stake and we're friggin' outnumbered!!!" I think Piglet helps to add this vital element of good v evil to the scene, where it might have been lost in special effects and action. <P>Does this make any sense at all?
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Old 12-18-2003, 01:48 AM   #8
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Yes. He isn't the leader of the orcs, he is A leader of the orcs. Like a Sgt.
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Old 12-18-2003, 03:09 AM   #9
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The battle was an exciting scene and it did like the Charge of the Rohirrim. What where were the Haradrim? They played an important role and all i could see were the Oliphaunts. In additon, i disliked Aragorn's arival and the "Germ plague" that seemed to envelop the enemy. Thats what it looked like a gian infectious disease spreading across the Pelennor.
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Old 12-18-2003, 05:12 AM   #10
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I thought the charge of the Rohirrim was one of the most moving things I have seen on screen. The battle was great,I loved it all, but in an ideal world I would have liked to see some of the Gondorian reinforcements - Imrahil's Swan Knights would have been nice - and of course the Rangers. I don't see the problem of having a good mix of troops on the battlefield, it adds to the texture.
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Old 12-18-2003, 05:46 AM   #11
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I pretty much agree with Eomer and Diamond18. It did feel rushed. The battling itself was entertaining. And Legolas's stunt in this one was a bit far-fetched again, but I think I'm used to it by now. I was really looking forward to the showdown between Gandalf and The Witch King....I just pray the extended DVD will have it. I was disappointed that the scene between Eowyn and The Witch King would be longer and more exciting and/or dramatic. And although it would have been nice, it's no surprise that Ghan-buri-Ghan was cut.
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Old 12-18-2003, 11:16 AM   #12
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I enjoyed it greatly. I do not dwell on what was not there because it probably will be there in the EE. <P>The most suprising was the thing in the book that I would have never thought they'd even consider putting in. When the Orcs start launchin dead Gondorian soldiers over the walls to make the people dispair. Brilliant!!!
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Old 12-18-2003, 03:05 PM   #13
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for me it didn't top helm's deep. <P>why was the germ plague acid green? i imagined them grey. no rangers=bad, germ plague=bad.<P>coming of the corsairs underused.<P>where was the rich dialogue from eowyn and the witch king? what happened to him when he was stabbed? it was so odd.<P>ride of the rohirrim= beautiful. so moving. crying moment. theoden's speech were some of the best lines of the film.
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Old 12-18-2003, 03:09 PM   #14
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Because dead things are green. Didn't you ever read the books?
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Old 12-18-2003, 06:19 PM   #15
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Silmaril

Good point, burrahobbit. Grey, green, not a huge amount of difference at least not to me. But I definitely have a problem with the dead swarming all through Minas Tirith. Tolkien points out that it is ironic to have Sauron's forces defeated by his own devices (necromancy, or something similar). But <B>I</B> point out that it's <B>moronic</B> to have zombie skeletons swarming through the White City! Truly it was two Minas Morguls grinning at each other across the Vale of Anduin. Once again, PJ reads the books and yet misses the point!<P>I'm one of the strongest advocates against Legolas' ridiculous stuntwork in TTT, but I would have to say that the Oliphaunt thing really worked. It was cool yet believable, given his elven talent for balance and quick movement. It did take up slightly too much screen time, though. …omer's dispatching of two MŻmakil was <B>hardcore</B> and fairly believable. Honestly, though, elephants aren't like out-of-control trucks. It was like somebody was still stepping on the accelerator of the Mumak, and instead of stopping in his tracks, he kept going and plowed into his buddy, sending them both crashing. I was waiting for the snowspeeder to come in and blow them to pieces, but alas! maybe on the extended edition.<P>As for length, I thought PJ did very well. I had just started thinking "This is too battle-heavy. Kiss your Oscar goodbye!" when the battle wrapped up. Besides, if anything it should have been shortened. As the movie stands, the climax was really the Battle of the Pelennor (what an ironic name!) Fields and Sam's defeat of Shelob. This took a lot of the glory away from the final battle and from Mount Doom.<P>I'm not convinced that the battle really was better than Helm's Deep. Thankfully there were no troops of Elves, although I really missed the Sons of Elrond. I think it would have made much more sense for them to make the journey from Imladris and fight in the war than for Elrond to come to Rohan, go back to Rivendell and then come to Gondor with Arwen. <P>The breaching of the wall at Helm's Deep still rates as the best special effect I have ever seen, it was so realistic! So the whole 'brick crushes Orc' thing had already been done. In fact the siege machines probably went on for too long, and I was a bit disappointed not to see a cow shot out of a trebuchet. Surely that's a must in any battle? Boy, they don't build Nķmenůrean cities like they used to either! One shot, one turret down!<P>The scene at the gate was very well done. Gandalf referring to <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> whatever comes through that gate <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> really got the fear and anticipation up. And then when the trolls burst through, oh boy that was some scary stuff!<P>The Rohirrim were the scariest thing on the battlefield, however. The chant of <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Death! Death! Death! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>was sending shivers of fright down my spine. Thťoden's only good moment of the film, if you ask me. …omer's part in the battle and the death of his lord can't really be judged until we see the extended edition, which is unfortunate but understandable given the time constraint.<P>Too many MŻmakil, no Southron banner, no other horsemen and too many filthy Orcsses. Anyone knows they're the scum of Sauron's armies and too easily destroyed. The battle was good, but not as good as hype indicated it was going to be. I was a bit disappointed at the reliance on CG. It took it out of the realm of <I>Ran</I> and put it into the <I>Phantom Menace</I> class of battle scenes. Bring on <I>The Last Samurai</I>.
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Old 12-18-2003, 07:30 PM   #16
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This "germ plague"... was it in the book? I've read over those chapters a couple of times trying to find them...where are they, or was that a PJ creation? It was pretty cool to watch, however.
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Old 12-18-2003, 08:23 PM   #17
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Mariska, I'm so glad I'm not the only one to think that orc looked like Sloth from "the Goonies"! Every time I saw him I wanted to start chanting "BABY RUTH! BABY RUTH!" He really almost ruined the battle for me. Maybe PJ got tired of everyone complaining the bad guys were all "dark-skinned" and decided to give us a pink orc, but it was *not* a good move.<P>I thought the "stirring battle speeches" in the movie lacked oomph, but seeing the charge of the Rohirrim was a sight, as were the fell beasts. Loved the flying heads, and the trolls were just terrifying. The Mumaks were great, too. Legolas' stunt actually made me laugh with glee, although it ended ridiculously.<P>-Lily
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Old 12-19-2003, 04:39 AM   #18
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When FOTR came out, I though the Mines of Moria and Amon Hen were the best fight scences ever. Then Helm's Deep blew me away! I had no idea how they could top that. Hopefully now you understand that I thoght the battle of Pelennor Fields was FRIGGIN' AWESOME!!! <P>The only complaints that I have are with the Army of the Dead. It just seemed to... I don't know. Maybe its just one of those things that can't be adapted into a movie without it being a bit out of place. I guess Acidic Green ghosts and orcs just don't mix. Also, there needs to be more. I guess I'm just hoping for the EE DVD too soon. <P>The pig orc was a little strange. Its funny that you mention that it looked like Sloth, because whenever he was on screen I had a sudden urge to scream, "HEYYYY YOUUUU GUYYYYYS!!" like crazy. <P>Overall, it was the best battle scene of all the movies.<p>[ 5:40 AM December 19, 2003: Message edited by: TealDude4 ]
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Old 12-19-2003, 07:15 AM   #19
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I think that the strange piggish looking orc was meant to be Gothmog. In the book, he was mentioned as the Lieutenant of Mordor who led the army of the Witch-King fell, but he wasn't hardly described at all. Jackson, of course jumped at this and made his own character who lead the orcs. I saw on IMDb that he was played by the same guy who did the Lord of the Nazgul and also Lurtz in the first movie.
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Old 12-19-2003, 07:21 AM   #20
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Eomer, <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I thought Theoden's death could have been about ten times more effective had it been done by the book. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I know you werenít in that bit. Is that what you mean? Or is it that Theoden spoke to Eoywn? He couldnít have done this with Merry as we donít have any of the previous scenes of them growing fond of each other.<P>I reckon you will be in the EE though, and you will cradle Eoywn in your arms and think sheís dead.<P>Diamond <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>It was too sunny...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well, just as the Rohirrim ride, the Wind Changes (in the book) and it becomes clearer. i.e. check out the first paragraph from The Battle of Pellenor Fields.<P>GKW, <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I was really looking forward to the showdown between Gandalf and The Witch King <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> So was I, but Iíve been questioning on different forums over the past couple of years how Jackson would show this. In the book, Gandalf does not follow the WK because Faramir may die, but I donít believe Jackson would have accepted this in his screenplay. I donít think Jacksonís Gandalf would have gone to Faramir, but would have followed the WK. So Iím not sure if it WILL be in the EE. <P>Doug <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Thankfully there were no troops of Elves <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes, I would have put my mortgage on elves being at the battle, but then I would have lost £93,000 so Iím glad I didnít pop down the bookies.<P>PS. I thought the Battle of Pellenor fields and the siege of Gondor were absolutely brilliant. Thank God they had Merry stabbing the Witch King. For some stupid reason I thought Jackson wouldn't show this.
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Old 12-19-2003, 12:08 PM   #21
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I got chills down my spine when I heard the war-chant "Death! Death! Death!" <P>That battle was bloody brilliant! I was sitting on the edge of my seat throughout it, cheering on the Men of Gondor. It was so cool that the entire theater started whooping and cheering when the Rohirrim charged the Orcs and especially when Aragorn leaped over the edge of that ship, and Sgt. Piglet fell back with a very confused look on his face. Priceless! Absolutely priceless!
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Old 12-19-2003, 03:37 PM   #22
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Oh Essex! I'm not REALLY Eomer, its just a name. <P>But seriously, I think that Theoden's death followed by Aragorn's arrival could have been the greatest moment (or 3 moments, whatever) in cinematic history. But they really missed the boat on that one.<P>I am also against the over-use of the Dead Army, and not just because they're green. It has been pointed out already that Aragorn deliberately got rid of them once he had the ships. Jackson may or may not have understood the significance of this nobility. Whatever, as we all know by now; ZOMBIES ARE COOL!!!! So stick them in the film at whatever cost.<P>Who needs the Dunedain?
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Old 12-19-2003, 03:44 PM   #23
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A modern audience with no exposure to Tolkien's works would probably prefer a green zombie army over an army of Dunedain (Dunedain? What are Dunedain?). I think that the effect would have been SO much better if both the Dunedain and the Army of the Dead poured out of the ships of the Corsairs. It would have made had such a striking effect. Just imagine! Aragorn leaping out, with Halbarad holding Arwen's banner at his side, and Elladan and Elrohir in their bright, silver mail with stars at their brows, and their beautiful Elven blades unsheathed. After them, wave upon wave of dour, grim Rangers would pour over the sides of the ships, yelling "Elendil!" with their long swords unsheathed. <P>It would have been such a BEAUTIFUL scene, but, oh well, those "modern" audiences wouldn't have appreciated it.
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Old 12-19-2003, 07:53 PM   #24
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I thought the ships were filled with fisher folk from Lebennin and Lamedon who had been too busy fighting to come to Minas Tirith. There weren't that many Dunedain. I did miss Halbarad, though.<P>-Lily
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Old 12-19-2003, 09:04 PM   #25
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The battle was great in my opinion. Including the Dead, eventhough the rest of you may not agree with me.. Howver, I wish that falling chunk of stone had just crushed the pig-orc quickly so I wouldn't have to see him again. I especially liked Gimli's "That still only counts as one!" remark about the oliphaunt.
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Old 12-19-2003, 10:09 PM   #26
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I absoultey loved the way PJ portrayed the Battle of the Pelennor Fields! I loved ecery aspect of it. The Battle of the Pelennor Fields truly dwarfs Helm's Deep.
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Old 12-19-2003, 11:52 PM   #27
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Overall I thought the battle was great I just wish there more different armies on the field. Until Aragorn showed up the Rohirrim were fighting the battle entirely by themselves. I understand that most of the other people involved in the battle were never addressed in the film, but at the very least I would have liked to see some of Gondor's army strom out of the city and join the Rohirrim.
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Old 12-20-2003, 04:26 AM   #28
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Yeah, what about the Prince of Dol Amroth? Where was he?<P>All for the sake of desparation I suppose.
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Old 12-28-2003, 10:03 PM   #29
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I do not like battles, but I REALLY enjoyed this one. I enjoyed it as much as I was bugged and bored by Helms Deep. PF was exciting, and very watchable. Helm's deep was dark and jumpy, everything seemed rather mono-toned. In Pelennor Fields I was able to follow all the action.<BR> I loved Theoden's speech and sword clanging. I agree that the swarming dead into the city was weird, it made me think of Poltergist. I also agree that the arrival of *The King* deserved a more dramatic treatment. It was a bit like ...here comes Batman and Robin to save the day! I have never enjoyed a battle sequence till this one though. I can't wait to see it again!
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Old 01-07-2004, 09:25 PM   #30
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I forgot to mention "GROND! GROND! GROND!" This chant was as riveting as the Rohirrim's "DEATH! DEATH! DEATH!" IMO.
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Old 01-07-2004, 09:47 PM   #31
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Did anyone else notice that the siege hammer Grond was depicted as a giant, cruel-looking wolf with flames in the pit of its stomach? It was described thusly in the book:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Long had it been forging in the dark smithies of Mordor, and its hideous head, founded of black steel, was shaped in the likeness of a ravening wolf; on it spells of ruin lay. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It seemed to me that it should have been called "Carcharoth."<P>My favorite part of the Battle of the Pelennor Fields had to be the <I>mumakil</I> and their battle with the Riders of Rohan; visually stunning and terrifying. The battle conveyed to me a sense of desperation and longing for better days. Although Denethor's jump from the Citadel was a little nutty (quite an understatement, actually ), the camera shot immediately following this, with its sweep from the Citadel to Minas Tirith as a whole to the great battle at its flanks, was one of my favorites of the whole film trilogy.
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Old 01-07-2004, 09:56 PM   #32
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A little on the blury side, even more so than FotR & TTT were. It was pretty good, but having the dead army wipe out quite a few cheapened the desperation of the whole thing a little bit. Still pretty good, though. (although I thought Helms Deep was probably better )
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Old 01-09-2004, 03:55 AM   #33
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<B>Eomer of the Rohirrim </B>: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I especially didn't like Aragorn's arrival to the field, barely anything was made of it. I would have preferred a Galadriel voiceover;<BR>"Thus came Aragorn, son of Arathorn......"<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>That is sheer brilliance <B>Eomer</B>! I couldnt agree more, if PJ or his minions ever read this he needs you over in New Zealand to help edit the extended edition this summer <BR>I loved the Rohirrims arrival at the field of battle and Theoden rallying his riders into a frenzy of 'Death!Death!Death! really got me buzzing before that awesome charge sequence. <BR>His death was a bit shady though and Imrahil and the Dunedain were definately missed, however, still the best movie battle I've ever seen, by a long way!
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Old 01-09-2004, 07:43 AM   #34
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I thought the Battle of Pelennor Fields was breathtaking. I felt more like a spectator when watching the terror of Helm's Deep in TTT, but I truly felt as though I landed smack dab in the middle of Pelennor Fields, swooping above the troops, and charging ahead with the fearless Rohirrim. The latter's death chant was thrilling and inspiring, and I absolutely believe that Eomer deserved so much more screen time - he is mesmerising (I mourned that he wasn't at Helm's Deep in the extent that he was in the book). The slight downside for me was the Gothmog character, who unfortunately reminded me of a potato the entire time. Also, the dead seemed very "Disney" to me, as opposed to the haunting majesty I believe they were supposed to possess - but otherwise, they didn't bother me as much, and their entrance with Aragorn was unforgettable. As for Legolas' stunt, I think that PJ meant for it to be a little bit of a refresher from the intensity of the heat of battle. Gimli's response was perfect, and I think it was worth it to see that! All in all, I loved the portrayal of this battle on film, and I can't wait to return to the theater to see it again. But again, my one plea to PJ is, "More Eomer!"
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Old 01-09-2004, 05:52 PM   #35
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What I really liked about the Battle of Pelennor Fields was the way in which it was layered, with each new event building upon the previous one and swaying the battle one way or the other. <P>First, there was the assault of the Orcs on Minas Tirith, supported by the Nazgul (and what a breathtaking scene as they swooped down), and all looked hopleless. Then the Rohirrim arrive and rout the Orcs, and it seems like they will save the day. Then, the Haradrim turn up with their Oliphaunts, and all looks grim for the Riders. Then, just as Theoden is rallying his troops against them, along comes the Witch-King. <P>I think that Bernard Hill has perfected that "Oh great, just when I thought things couldn't get any worse" look. It was great in TTT when the rain started pouring down, but the look on his face when he turns round and sees the Witch-King swooping down on his fell beast is priceless. <P>But I did think that introducing different "troop types" as the battle progressed worked well. OK, so the arrival of the Rohirrim is from the book, but bringing the Mumakil in part-way through, while illogical from a strategic perspective, worked very well I thought.<P>Some (very) minor gripes. I would have liked to see more Haradrim ground troops - the ones that I saw were all mounted on Oliphaunts. And where were the Easterlings that Frodo, Sam and Gollum saw marching into the Black Gate in TTT? Presumably too busy re-applying their eyeliner. <P>And there were too many close-up shots (also in the Osgiliath battle) which made the action a little indistinct in parts. I thought that it was my failing eyesight, but others have made the same comment too.<P>But, overall, breathtaking. The best film depiction of battle that I have seen is the opening sequence to <I>Saving Private Ryan</I>, but then that was horrific and terrifying, all the more so because it really happened. But the Pelennor was a visual treat, and it had its horrific moments too.
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Old 01-09-2004, 07:01 PM   #36
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"Oh Yeah"!! Saucepan! That just whets my appetite for another veiwing! I usually put kleenex in my ears during movies because they can get so loud, but not this one! I loved the din and big sound of the battle, it enabled me to whoop it up and cheer without making a scene. I loved the makeup on the Haradrim guys. They reminded me of Darth Maul, for some reason.
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Old 01-16-2004, 10:45 AM   #37
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I think that the effect would have been SO much better if both the Dunedain and the Army of the Dead poured out of the ships of the Corsairs. It would have made had such a striking effect. Just imagine! Aragorn leaping out, with Halbarad holding Arwen's banner at his side, and Elladan and Elrohir in their bright, silver mail with stars at their brows, and their beautiful Elven blades unsheathed. After them, wave upon wave of dour, grim Rangers would pour over the sides of the ships, yelling "Elendil!" with their long swords unsheathed. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Wonderful, Finwe! You and Eomer should be co-direct the next Tolkien adaptation! (Silm maybe ).<P>I loved the battle, especially the Rohirrim's arrival (how could you not) but I did not much care for the green gooey Army of the Dead. I did like the scene whe they poured out of the ship behind Aragorn and Legolas and Gimli, that was really well-made.
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