Sons of Olwe

[Arvegil145]

In The Silmarillion there is a passing mention of the fact that Olwe had (at least two) sons in addition to his daughter Earwen.

I always wondered why he never bothered naming them, until I realized that he actually did (sort of...maybe...).

So, in a 1930s genealogy associated with the earliest Annals of Beleriand we get a one and only mention of a character called Elulindo, son of Elwe of Alqualonde (Lost Road, 'The Genealogies', p. 403).

Confusingly enough, at this point in time the name Elwe applied to the brother of Thingol and the Lord of the Teleri in Valinor - in other words, this is basically Olwe under an earlier name (Lost Road, 'Quenta Silmarillion', note to §23 of chapter 3, p. 217).

Another interesting thing is that this Elwe is called 'Lord of Ships' (p. 403, 'The Genealogies'), while decades later in the Shibboleth Olwe holds the title of Ciriáran ('mariner king') of the Teleri of Valinor (PoME, 'Shibboleth of Feanor', 'The names of Finwe's descendants', p. 341).

However, I'm still not sure if Tolkien would've kept the name Elulindo after he switched Elwe > Olwe.




This used to be all that there was to this until a few months ago with the publication of Parma Eldalamberon 23 that is.

So, on p. 143 of PE 23 there is this gem:

Celeborn Gildírion, C. son of Gildír (Sindarized form of his father's Telerin name Gilitīro 'starwatcher').

This text dates from at least c. 1968 because it references the Eldarin Hands, Fingers and Numerals by name on the very next page (p. 144).

And depending on how long after 1968 it was written it could be close in time to the 1973 text describing Celeborn as a grandson of Olwe (UT, 'History of Galadriel and Celeborn', p. 299 of HarperCollins version).

Therefore, this Gilitīro (notably having a Telerin name!) could very well be one of the sons of Olwe.




With all that out of the way - what is everyone's thoughts on this? And more importantly, does anyone know of anything else that might shine some more light on the subject?

[Huinesoron]

You can probably guess my attitude to this: we should absolutely accept both of them!

Gilitīro is probably the most solid: was there a time when Celeborn was a Teler who was not the grandson of Olwe? My understanding is the Telerin heritage all came as a single block. Since Gilitīro is a Telerin name, he would by definition be Olwe's son (or, possibly, the husband of Olwe's other daughter).

*Elulindo is more difficult. It would probably still look the same in later Telerin; the name would be either Elue+Lindo (Quendi and Eldar) or Elwe+Lindo (Shibboleth), but I think Elulindo is the most natural combined form for either of those.

But would Olwe have named his son "Singer of Elu"? Some Amanyar elves (cough Finwe cough) liked to name their kids after themselves, so **Olulindo would follow from that, but that's a completely invented name at this point.

But... what if he was born after Elwe vanished? After Olwe had given up hope and was looking westwards again, or even had already left? "Singer for Elu" would be a way to memorialise his brother in the person of his son. So it's plausible; and in the absence of any other information, I don't see any reason not to at least tentatively accept it.

You may recognise this as the same logic I used for Maedhros, grandfather of Feanor, and Meril mother of Gil-Galad in the same thread. I just want them all to have names!

What we really need to support this as something Tolkien might have intended is an example of him changing a direct relationship but keeping a more distant one. Gil-Galad and Celeborn both kind of did that: Gil-Galad jumped around the family tree but always remained a descendent of Finwe, while Celeborn's swap to being Telerin still kept him in the "grandson of Thingol's brother" position. So... we probably can say that if Elulindo had been an actual character, he would have remained so as "son of the Lord of Alqualonde" even after that lord's name changed.

hS

[Mithadan]

Arvegil145, thanks for providing this linguistic information and linking it to a part of the mythos that is arguably undecided. As an aside, if you know how to get back issues of Parma Eldalamberon (I'm most interested in PE 17), please let me know.

Whether 1930s Elulindo is Celeborn is, at best, an open question. More on this in a moment.

Celeborn Gildírion from the late 1960s is more interesting. First is the comment that the name is a "Sindarized form of his father's Telerin name Gilitīro." The implication that his name was, originally, Telerin, can be coupled with the late UT version suggesting Celeborn lived in Alqualondë. "Celeborn" itself was also a Sindarized version of Teleporno. This seems to reflect the later version of the tale where Celeborn and Galadriel, at least, meet in Valinor. Whether the version of the story where the couple take ship independent of Fingolfin's march into exile was JRRT's final decision remains uncertain. Nor does this firmly establish that the earlier version(s) of the story (Celeborn was a Sinda, "kinsman" of Thingol, possibly his nephew, a prince of Doriath, met Galadriel in Beleriand) was entirely rejected.

Circling back to 1930s Elulindo, Galadriel did not appear until LoTR, so I believe that Celeborn may not have been conceived of in the 1930s.