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Old 01-02-2009, 06:01 AM   #1
gondowe
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A "Complete Silmarillion" in Spanish

Hello everybody; first of all, sorry for my english.
I'm a 36 years old Spanish Tolkien reader and fan from 1985, and when I read for the first time "The Silmarillion" in 1987, it was a shock. Then they come the "Unfinished Tales" here in Spain and in 1990 it was published here "Lost Tales I". The next book I acquired was in English the next year, because it was an stop in translations to Spanish. Since I read the complete original "Fall of Gondolin" I wanted to complete a final "Fall", and I started to do it as handwork. When "Morgoth's Ring" and "War of the Jewels" comes at last, the project was enlarged to the whole Silmarillion.
I only write to say that from many years ago, I have my personal vision of a dreamed "Fall of Gondolin" and "Silmarillion".... but in Spanish, called "Traducciones del elfico" ---> "Translations from the Elvish", but in Spanish, its a coincidence. It' similar to the project of this website, but have some differences of my own opinion.
I Know that is not the language of Tolkien and is a sacrilege, but is a work of a life easy to read for me and my people, and is worked from the official Spanish translation of "The Silmarillion" and the other books, most of all translated by me. It is updated when a new book comes, with new information, the last whit "The Children of Hurin". I'm expecting the publication of Arda Reconstructed, if it gives me more information to complete my vision.
I found this website a year ago, ( I'm new in the web), and I saw the project, and I did take a few ideas to make better "The Fall of Gondolin".
I believe in Tolkien and I believe in the work of his son, but I think we need a Silmarillion not better but complete, revised.
I think was the purpose of Christopher.
Of course I don't want to publish it. It's for my personal tasting. I'm proud of it.

Thank you for this website, and go on with the project

Last edited by gondowe; 01-28-2009 at 11:39 AM. Reason: better translation for better understanding
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Old 02-17-2009, 03:20 PM   #2
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Hello

Do you plan on sharing it?

I'm fluent in spanish and i would be interested in seeing it too, if it were possible?
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Old 02-18-2009, 06:44 AM   #3
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Hello Gondowe,

Even so I can not read Spanish at all, I would very much appreciate if you would share your Ideas about the work undertaken. I know that a complete comparison is out of question, but probably you can highlight some point of divergence between our work and yours?

Respectfuly
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P.S.: Even so my time is very limited in the moment, I would very much like to go on with this project. What is about my long term colleges Meadhros and Aiwendil, are we able to go on?
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Old 02-18-2009, 11:08 AM   #4
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Sting

Quote:
P.S.: Even so my time is very limited in the moment, I would very much like to go on with this project. What is about my long term colleges Meadhros and Aiwendil, are we able to go on?
Yes, I'm able to go on, but like yourself, my time is limited. Let me pm you as to what it is we should be discussing in the proyect.
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Old 02-19-2009, 09:18 AM   #5
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Hello both

I'm pleased to know that you're interested in my ideas and if I can contribute with my opinion I'll be double pleased.

First of all I have to say my ideas about the canonical works and its interpretation.
I think basically that as an exemplary mythology, this one of Middle-Earth is unfinished and formed by multiple texts, some of them merely rough copies or first drafts.
With this in mind I think we can not invent nothing apart for editorial sentences to join the established ideas of Tolkien (as did Christopher), even names (except some few in “Fall of Gondolin” about I’ll say later).

The basis for the complete text must be the material from the end of the writing of The Lord of the Rings to the early 60’s, Then complete with old texts as next to the 50’s as we can. From the texts of later 60’s we can only take some few ideas, for the most are essays and rough notes about a later development than never came, (such as the number of Balrogs, the origin of orcs, etc, even the post- Lord of the Rings Round version of Arda due to the need of a complete restructuration of the corpus impossible to Tolkien because his age, and to us for the need of invent.)

To sum up, we can not complicate us and limit to the above.

I assume The Children of Húrin as canonical and I left aside the work on the Narn I hin Hurin. And adding some material (Dragon helm and Saeros) to the chapter in Translations.

I have both books printed with a single “binding” with plastic and rings. The front page with the title reads

Traducciones del élfico J.R.R: Tolkien one

La caída de Gondolin J.R.R. Tolkien the other


The next page contains a note of the origins of this material. It reads translated.

These texts were constructed from myths of Eressëa and Númenor preserved in several sources and translated to modern language by JRRT.
Were compiled, edited and published firsr by his son CRT.
Reconstructed and edited second from the published texts by Gondowë.

I think that the history of Eriol/Aelfwine can be still possible (although I omit it) and can be compatible with "The Red book" of the hobbits

The next are the titles of the “real tales” in fëanorian characters first and then:

1 A Ainulindale, etc
B Valaquenta, etc
C Eldanyare Quenta Silmarillion o Histora de los Eldar o Historia de los Silmarils
D Atalante o Akallabeth, etc
E De los Anillos de Poder (Of the rings of Power)
F De la Tercera Edad (Of the Third Age)

2 Narn e- Dant Gondolin o Historia de la Caida de Gondolin (HIstory of the Fall of Gondolin)

On the development of the texts I’ll write other day, I must go working, I'm too very busy.

Greetings.

Last edited by gondowe; 02-19-2009 at 09:30 AM.
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Old 02-24-2009, 04:50 AM   #6
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Hello again,

In the matter of the Narn e-Dant Gondolin I made a division in chapters after the publication of The Children of Húrin, translated more or less:

The birth of Tuor
Tuor slave and outlaw
The call of Ulmo
The arriving at Vinyamar
The speech of Tuor and Ulmo
Voronwë
The quest of Gondolin
The hidden pass
The arriving at Gondolin
Of Tuor in Gondolin and the birth of the New Star
The Treason of Maeglin
The Battle of Gondolin
The Flight of the exiles

In the first part, the “later Tuor”, I don’t remember to have made any change, apart for the chapters.

In the second part, that I remember have made are:

In the matter of the names, I considered the names on this web of the city The seven names Ondolindë, Gondobar, Gondolindrinbar, Gwarestrin, Garthoren, Loth, Gondolin.
The names of the Chieftains of the houses remains the same except Talagand (again I accepted from this web), I think is the only ones we have and can not invent others.
In the polemic mention of Legolas, I changed this one for Galdor that was among the exiles too. I assume this one and Glorfindel are the same as in TLOTR
I changed the word Balrogs for Balrog, omitted the metal in the serpents, goblins for orcs, etc, updating the rest to the well known.

I introduced many sentences and matters from other sources, like mention to Argon Elenwë and Idril in the ice, Gond dolen, the speech of Thorondor and Turgon from TWOH, (speech I resumed in the chapter of “Translations), the history of Enherdil and the Elessar, Anguirel as the sword of Maeglin, Glamdring as the sword of Turgon, the same fate of Maeglin and his father...

Of course there were the changes in geography as the house of Tuor in the north, Cirith Thoronath also in the north, Orfalch Echor, etc.

For the construction of the text, I think I made a good work, but it’s my proud opinion. It can be made in many different forms. But the few texts I’ve read from this web are very similar, not the same, but very similar.

Greetings.
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Old 02-26-2009, 06:44 PM   #7
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I want to see the "Complete Silmarillion" . Can you tell me where is it? spanish translation
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Old 03-01-2009, 09:12 AM   #8
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Hello again

On the book “Traducciones del élfico”, (“Translations from the elvish”), the basis text I decided to use, was that of The Silmarillion published. I had and I have the original edition, there’s no translation into Spanish of the last edition revised (I think from 2001).

I used this basis because I think we must have respect with the work made by CT, a work of cohesion and connection between the whole mythology. I only change the story in the matter of the Ruin of Doriath. The part he invented and perhaps (as we can read in “The War of the Jewels”) he was not proud of it.

But this basis, first, I compared with the texts in MR and TWotJ, the annals and the Quenta Silmarillion proper, adding material discarded ( if was not discarded from JRR or contradicts other thing), and overall, the dialogues that CT omitted.

I left aside material like “Athrabeth”, “Quendi and Eldar” “The statute of Finwe and Miriel”(the discussion of the Valar), etc, because, or there are incomplete or ,like the Athrabeth, there are not (I think) “Quenta Silmarillion” texts. But I mention these works with an editorial sentence in the corpus of the text when proceed, and so we can read it, if we want.

Then, I was introducing material (paragraphs, sentences, etc) from the other texts before the 50’s or after the 60’s, when it was convenient and didn’t confront with the story.

I don't remember how many (for there were many) sentences, paragraphs,etc and where I introduced them, but in other posts I will explain these I'm going remembering, and if you answer things like with the FoG, it will be easier.

In a post above I wrote the general title.
The structure of Eldanyarë or Quenta Silmarillion proper is:

The same titles as in the published work except:

Ch24 Of the Wanderings of Húrin
Ch25 Of the Nauglamir and the Ruin of Doriath
Ch27 Of the Voyage of Earendil and the rising of the New Star
Ch28 Of the Great battle and the War of Wrath
Ending with The Second Prophecy of Mandos.

(Edit)
I had forgotten
Ch6 Of Finwe and Miriel
ch11 Of the Rape of the Silmarils and the Thieve's Quarrel

I am waiting to buy the new edition of The Silmarillion in Amazon, when “Arda Reconstructed” will be released.
But for the moment, can anybody tell me differences between the 77 edition and this one?, what changes or additions had made CT?


Thanks and greetings.

Last edited by gondowe; 03-07-2009 at 06:23 PM.
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Old 03-01-2009, 03:03 PM   #9
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Gondowe, in my view you shouldn't with waht ever you plan with your work for the Sil2001. The changes introduced in the text are very minor. I remember only some thing about the numbering of the rulers of Numenor that had any bearing to the content of the story. From my point of view a normal read will hardly mark any differenc.

Respectfuly
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Old 03-06-2009, 03:30 AM   #10
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Hello again

I’ve been ( and I am) very busy these days, so sorry.

Ok Findegil, I understand that you said to me that it isn’t worthwhile to buy or read it (Sil2001 I mean), isn’t it?

It was very difficult to join the texts of AAm and Quenta proper with the text of Sil77 and I made it alone, so it’s possible (I suppose) that I left something away. But it was enlarged considerabily.

In the Valaquenta I inserted the descriptions of the houses of the Valar from the Lost Tales, that I had in mind from many years ago.

Here and there I introduced sentences from other sources like mention to the First, Second, Third elves to awake and their people and I’d take the decision (I don’t know what do you think in the forum about it) of relating these elves with Ingwe, Finwe and Elwe because of other sentence I introduced ( I think, but not secure) from the Lammas that “Ingwe was the eldest for he was the first to awake”. Perhaps it’ll be polemic but I feel it’s right.

I had pity for not know where could I insert the passage from the history of Finwe and Miriel ( at the end of The statute) when he dies, but I didn’t find a coherent place for it.
What do you think about?

Greetings
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Old 03-06-2009, 05:10 PM   #11
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Ok Findegil, I understand that you said to me that it isn’t worthwhile to buy or read it (Sil2001 I mean), isn’t it?
Yes, that it what I mean.

The 'relation' between Ingwe and Imin, you took is identity? Possible in that special case. But between Tata and Finwe is doubtful and Enel equvial to Elwe seems impossible since he had two brothers.

About Finwe and Miriel I have to look that up in our version, before commenting.

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