The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > Novices and Newcomers
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-30-2003, 02:05 PM   #1
FairLadyGoldberry
Pile O'Bones
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The Old Forest
Posts: 20
FairLadyGoldberry has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to FairLadyGoldberry
Sting Two Questions

Ok I have two questions.

1) About the Grey Havens, is it a land, or more of a heaven-type place? I know it is the undying lands...but...

2) What lands surround Middle-earth? Numenor is one, correct? Is there a map anywhere of these places?

And by the way this is a great site and I'm looking forward to becoming a wight [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
__________________
So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
FairLadyGoldberry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2003, 02:14 PM   #2
Lord of Angmar
Tyrannus Incorporalis
 
Lord of Angmar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: the North
Posts: 833
Lord of Angmar has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

1) The Grey Havens are not part of the Undying Land. They are a coastal land presided over by Cirdan the Shipwright, whose primary concern in the Third Age of the World was to provide safe passage for the Elves to Valinor by allowing them to travel in his ships over the Great Sea to the Undying Land. He left Middle-earth himself in the Fourth Age, along with all other Elves that made their abode in the Grey Havens and in all of Middle-earth.

2) Actually, after the Second Age, Numenor did not exist. It was sunk to oblivion after Ar-Pharazon, persuaded by Sauron, assailed the Valar in the Undying Lands. Everyone in the assault was killed, as well as all of the inhabitants of Numenor except the Elendili, who, led by Elendil and his sons Isildur and Anarion, fled to Middle-earth and started the Kingdom of Gondor.

But I digress.

Besides Middle-earth, the Undying Lands (which were technically after the downfall of Numenor no longer part of the physical world) and the Walls of the Sun, there were the Hither Lands and the Dark Lands, of which Professor Tolkien did not write much.
__________________
...where the instrument of intelligence is added to brute power and evil will, mankind is powerless in its own defence.
Lord of Angmar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2003, 02:17 PM   #3
Iarwain
Pugnaciously Primordial Paradox
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Birnham Wood
Posts: 808
Iarwain has just left Hobbiton.
Boots

1. Common misconception. The grey havens (look up haven in a dictionary, and you'll find this yourself) are mithlond, where the ships set off to reach Valinor, the Undying Lands, etc.

2. Middle Earth is actually a quite large continent. Tolkien did some rough maps of the world surrounding ME, but they don't say much. In the first age, and the early half of the second, there was another large continent on the western side of the great sea. After the sinking of numenor (an, in fact, rather small island) this continent (Valinor) was removed from the surface of the earth, and the earth was bent and made round, so that men could not invade Valinor as Ar-Pharazon had attempted.

Iarwain

P.S. Ah, M'lord, you beat me to the post. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 3:20 PM December 30, 2003: Message edited by: Iarwain ]
__________________
"And what are oaths but words we say to God?"
Iarwain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2003, 02:18 PM   #4
FairLadyGoldberry
Pile O'Bones
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The Old Forest
Posts: 20
FairLadyGoldberry has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to FairLadyGoldberry
Sting

Thank you for clearing that up!
__________________
So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
FairLadyGoldberry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2004, 12:21 PM   #5
The Dark Elf
Haunting Spirit
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Angmar
Posts: 74
The Dark Elf has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to The Dark Elf
The Eye

The Grey Havens are a heaven like land to the elves simply because it is not corrupted by war
__________________
"Fool of a Took!"
The Dark Elf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2004, 12:25 PM   #6
Lord of Angmar
Tyrannus Incorporalis
 
Lord of Angmar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: the North
Posts: 833
Lord of Angmar has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Actually, the Grey Havens are not unassailable, and were, I believe, attacked several times by the forces of Sauron. They were not really a heaven (though they were a haven [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] ) for Elves, but rather a place from which to begin the journey to the Undying Lands, the Elven equivalent (in a very loose sense of the word) to Heaven.
__________________
...where the instrument of intelligence is added to brute power and evil will, mankind is powerless in its own defence.
Lord of Angmar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2004, 01:39 PM   #7
The Dark Elf
Haunting Spirit
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Angmar
Posts: 74
The Dark Elf has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to The Dark Elf
The Eye

the book of unfinished tales has a map of valinor
__________________
"Fool of a Took!"
The Dark Elf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2004, 10:25 AM   #8
bilbo_baggins
Shade of Carn Dm
 
bilbo_baggins's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: In my front hallway, grabbing my staff, about to head out my door
Posts: 275
bilbo_baggins has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via Yahoo to bilbo_baggins
Speaking of maps, you could also look in Sil, HoME, and (oh no, not written by Tolkien) The Tolkien Bestiary for maps relating to Middle Earth. They are all very good ones, I might add.
__________________
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow, and with more knowledge comes more grief."
bilbo_baggins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2004, 11:57 AM   #9
Elianna
Shade of Carn Dm
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Ad finem itineris
Posts: 384
Elianna has just left Hobbiton.
"The Atlas of Middle-earth" by Karen Wynn Fonstad is also good for these kinds of questions.
Elianna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2004, 01:11 PM   #10
Boromir88
Laconic Loreman
 
Boromir88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 7,446
Boromir88 has passed beneath the Argonath.Boromir88 has passed beneath the Argonath.Boromir88 has passed beneath the Argonath.Boromir88 has passed beneath the Argonath.Boromir88 has passed beneath the Argonath.Boromir88 has passed beneath the Argonath.
Send a message via AIM to Boromir88 Send a message via MSN to Boromir88
White Tree Atlas

I agree with Eliana, the Atlas is a great book to pick up and is a good reference book to anyone who wants to read "The Silmarillion."
Boromir88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2004, 08:51 AM   #11
Marcus
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Hello I am new at this forum so I think It is appropiate that I give you a short presentation about me.

Well....My name is Marcus and I come from Sweden ( A country which lies in the northern regions of Europe.) I am 17 years old and currently studying social science and languages. I have been highly intersted in the books of Tolkien since I was 15 years old.

And now to my question: I am looking for a picture, I saw it once on a site but sadly I have forgotten the adress.
The picture is a black / white chart of the various races of middlearth. You can also see the average height of for example elves, dwarfs, hobbits......so on.

I am just wondering if someone might have this picture and if you would be kind to post it to me?
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2004, 11:40 AM   #12
Elianna
Shade of Carn Dm
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Ad finem itineris
Posts: 384
Elianna has just left Hobbiton.
Tolkien

Hey Marcus! Welcome to the Barrowdowns. Hope you enjoy being dead.

To introduce yourself, you should really go to the 'Introduce yourself here' thread.

I think I've seen the chart you're talking about in one of the "Visual Guides." I'll check the next time I go to a book store. In the meantime, you'll probably get a quicker answer if you open a new thread.
Elianna is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:10 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.