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Old 08-01-2002, 02:40 PM   #1
kingangmar
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Sting ungoliant

is this the most disgusting, bloated, vile creation in all of Tolkeins work? there is not one redeaming quality this voracious glutton she has no special might or conviction no aspect of higher dark plotting or purpose she exits as what seems a semi sensient thing devoted wholly to the consumtion of light ... and thats all in my mind truly a monster ... I mean does anyone even use Ungoliant as the log on name ? if the do i'd be suprised
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Old 08-01-2002, 02:43 PM   #2
Galorme
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Ungoliant is wonderful. She provides a perfect example of pure, unadulted glutany. She is bad but not evil. She has no goals other than feed herself (and possabily have children). She has great power, but she does not desire domination over people as Melkor does, and she does not want a kindom unless it has food in it. She also attacked Morgoth and nearly won if it was not for he Balrogs. Personelly i love her totally, and would gladly have her spidery children.
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Old 08-01-2002, 02:45 PM   #3
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Perhaps so, but does that not make the chracter/creation (however you percieve it) more worthwhile? The lack of qualities within makes you think more about purpose rather than point.
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Old 08-01-2002, 03:02 PM   #4
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Quote:
she has no special might
Dude, she almost ate Melkor. That's pretty damn mighty.
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Old 08-01-2002, 03:09 PM   #5
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"Dude", be careful. You're beginning to sound like Saulotus. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Welcome to the Barrow-Downs kingangmar! While she became "mighty", she acheived her strength only after consuming the sap of the Two Trees and devouring the gems of the Noldor. Before that, she had some degree of power but nothing comparable to Morgoth.
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Old 08-01-2002, 03:13 PM   #6
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Still, based on her apparent potential, I maintain that her spirit must have been on par with your average Vala in its beginning.
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Old 08-01-2002, 03:16 PM   #7
Morgoth Bauglir
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i dont think so obloquy. im willing to bet if melkor was a huge *** spider and ate hallowed jewels and especially the sap of the trees he'd be much stronger.
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Old 08-01-2002, 03:49 PM   #8
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Silmaril

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"there is not one redeaming quality this voracious glutton"
She attacked Melkor.
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Old 08-01-2002, 04:33 PM   #9
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Silmaril

Personally, I like Ungoliant better than Morgoth or Sauron or even Saruman. They knew and acknowledged the 'good' side, and turned away from it anyway for their own gain. As for Ungoliant, it seems to me that she never knew or cared about the 'good' side. She was just hungry, and not especially malicious. It was Morgoth who wanted to destroy the Two Trees in order to spite the Valar, and she just took up the opportunity.
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Old 08-01-2002, 04:45 PM   #10
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it's really not a matter of like or dislike for me.....unless you consider the fact that i'm not overly fond of spiders to begin with.....
but does anyone hate any beast for being mindless in its pursuit of nourishment?
ungoliant played her role in the plot as she should have and i doubt a furry squirrel would've had the wanted effect....
as to the question of wether she had any special might...ummmm, i don't know.....but you face her down and tell me..... [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
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Old 08-01-2002, 04:59 PM   #11
kingangmar
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i have always sided with the sinister forces in tolkeins mythos they have the inspiration the motives the drives the ambitions even consider Feanor in many ways he also displayed the selfish and corrupt attitudes of Morgoth and his ilk though they were supposed hated enemys they shared many simmilar traits ... the point being in depth personalitys strugles strivins conflicts wars...Ungoliant is but a passing part of the overall storyline to provide an early times villian to whom can bbe attributted a great woe that must surely then pass into the annals of history never again to play any prominent role in the historys of the valar elves or man ( save the inclusion of her distant ofspring shelob in the account of the passage of the ring into mordor )
no ...she is an architype and not much more ..although i must admidt nothing attributted to the writing of tolkein can be called "not much more"
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Old 08-01-2002, 05:02 PM   #12
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Question

Quote:
i have always sided with the sinister forces in tolkeins mythos they have the inspiration the motives the drives the ambitions even consider Feanor in many ways he also displayed the selfish and corrupt attitudes of Morgoth and his ilk though they were supposed hated enemys they shared many simmilar traits
They also brought untold suffering to millions of innocent beings that never tried to harm them, or have anything to do with them at all.

[ August 01, 2002: Message edited by: Kuruharan ]
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Old 08-01-2002, 05:38 PM   #13
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Quote:
Ungoliant is but a passing part of the overall storyline to provide an early times villian to whom can bbe attributted a great woe that must surely then pass into the annals of history never again to play any prominent role in the historys of the valar elves or man ( save the inclusion of her distant ofspring shelob in the account of the passage of the ring into mordor )
have you considered that not all characters in a story can be headliners?
throughout tolkien's work there are many characters i would love to see with more of a story, more motivation, more of tolkien's attention.....
sadly enough, the vastness of his creation doesn't allow to go into equal depth with every introduced character...
if only tolkien had had a lifespan such as elros was "blessed" with....but i doubt even in that time tolkien could have quenched the thirst of his true fans......

[ August 01, 2002: Message edited by: twinkle ]
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Old 08-04-2002, 04:27 PM   #14
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Hmm. It is told briefly that Earendil met, fought and slayed Ungoliant. And i dont think this is actually disproved anywhere in the later works. So could it have happened and just been one of Earendil's adventures of which only a rumour came back to ME?
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Old 08-04-2002, 04:42 PM   #15
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Galorme, where does it say that?
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Old 08-04-2002, 05:40 PM   #16
Morgoth Bauglir
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ive never heard that once and ime reading unfinished tales and the silmarillion for the third time.
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Old 08-04-2002, 06:03 PM   #17
Lothiriel Silmarien
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Silmaril

I've read them too, but aren't there some stories or something about the adventures of Earendil?
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Old 08-05-2002, 03:09 AM   #18
Galorme
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It says it in a short passage in The Lost Road ::gets book and puts on reading spectacles::

There are a few cryptic clues to what adventures, and horrors our Mariner goes through.

Quote:
Land of strange men, land of magic. The home of Night. The Spider.
There are lots more in that quote, very interesting provided you have a good imagination (II.261).

A sentance in an outline for the end of the (unfinished, alas) Tale of Earendel says (very, very mysteriously)

Quote:
Driven West. Ungweliante [an earlier name for Ungoliant]. Magic Isles. Twilit Isle [sic]. Little-heart's going awakes the Sleeper in the Tower of Pearl.
To be honest these are the parts of the histories I love. I think it is told somewhere else that he killed the Spider, but it is just as likely that i dreamed it, as often happens with these old tales. I believe, that even is Tolkien wrote these as part of a story he never finished, it still fits in perfectly with the mythology. We were never supposed to know what happened to Earendel on his long voyage, but these cryptic hints provide clues, which do little more that add a slight hint of authenticity to my imagination and my dreams.

::desperatly drags conversation back to Ungoliant::

So Ungoliant could well have been killed by Earendel, or at least faced him and lost (though i supose he could have escaped). Unless someone can show me a quote that he did not then i will carry on believing it. Then again i do not think Tolkien knew anymore about her fate than we do from these scetches and legends in the BoLT.
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Old 08-05-2002, 03:38 PM   #19
The Silver-shod Muse
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Quote:
I mean does anyone even use Ungoliant as the log on name ? if the do i'd be suprised
Yes, there is an Ungoliant, and I'm suprised that he/she hasn't made an appearance here yet.
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