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Old 04-26-2007, 10:53 PM   #1
rlbuff
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Quotes/References in the Children of Hurin

As I've read through the Introduction and and Appendices of the Children of Hurin, I've been trying to find the sources of all of Christopher's quotes. I've gotten most of them, but there are a few that seem to escape me. I'm sure there are some people here who will know where they come from almost off the top of their head. So if you could direct me to the right place for these five quotes, I'd sure appreciate it.

1) The first one I can't find is on p. 15 in the last paragraph. (Talking about Morgoth) it says, "As he grew in Malice, and sent forth from himself an evil that he conceived in lies and creatures of wickedness, his power passed into them and was dispersed, and he himself became ever more earth-bound, unwilling to issue from his dark strongholds."

2) The next one is right after that on p.15, where Fingolfin says to Morgoth, "Come forth, thou coward king, to fight with thine own hand! Den dweller, wielder of thralls, liar and lurker, foe of Gods and Elves, come! For I would see thy craven face." [Since he uses the word "Gods" I assume it is one of the earlier versions of the story].

3) This one I know I have read somewhere, but can't seem to find it again. It is on p.18 in the first full paragraph. "So ended the tale of Turin the hapless; the worst of the works of Morgoth among Men in the ancient world."

4) On p.25, in the second full paragraph, Beor speaks saying, "A darkness lies behind us; and we have turned our backs on it, and we do not desire to return thither even in thought. Westwards our hearts have been turned, and we believe that there we shall find Light." [A very similar passage, yet not an exact one, is in the published Silmarillion on p.141 (Hardback).]

5) On p.280, third full paragraph, CT says that he has "said elsewhere" of his father that, "with the completion of the the great 'intrusion' and departure of The Lord of the Rings, it seems that he returned to the Elder Days with a desire to take up again the far more ample scale with which he had begun long before, in The Book of Lost Tales..." [The quote goes further on p.280].

If anyone knows where all of these come from, or knows where any one of them comes from, I'd appreciate hearing a response. [I'll be happy to return the favor by sharing any of the other references that you might want that I have already found.]

Thanks!
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Old 04-27-2007, 02:08 PM   #2
Maédhros
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3) This one I know I have read somewhere, but can't seem to find it again. It is on p.18 in the first full paragraph. "So ended the tale of Turin the hapless; the worst of the works of Morgoth among Men in the ancient world."
From The Wanderings of Húrin:
Quote:
There is, first, a draft manuscript and associated rough workings (often of an extreme roughness). Many pages of the draft material are the backs of University documents dated 1954, others are documents from 1957. Secondly, there is a typescript made by my father on his later typewriter (see X.300), much emended in manuscript and with some substantial passages rejected and replaced by new material in typescript; and lastly an amanuensis typescript of virtually no independent value. The work can be placed with fair certainty towards the end of the 1950s.
My father's typescript, as typed, bore no title, but he wrote in ink on the top copy:
Of the fate of Húrin and Morwen
Link to the Necklace of the Dwarves, 'Sigil Elu-naeth'
Necklace of the Woe of Thingol
The text opens thus:
So ended the tale of Túrin the hapless; and it has ever been held one of the worst of the deeds of Morgoth among Men in the ancient world. It is said by some that on a time Morwen came in her witless wandering to the graven stone, and knowing that her children were dead, though she understood not in what way their tale had ended, she sat beside the stone awaiting death; and there Húrin found her at last, as is after told.
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Old 04-27-2007, 10:05 PM   #3
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Thank you Maedhros. Thats one down (and a little bit of my dwindling sanity left intact).
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Old 04-28-2007, 10:42 AM   #4
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1) The first one I can't find is on p. 15 in the last paragraph. (Talking about Morgoth) it says, "As he grew in Malice, and sent forth from himself an evil that he conceived in lies and creatures of wickedness, his power passed into them and was dispersed, and he himself became ever more earth-bound, unwilling to issue from his dark strongholds."
From the The Annals of Aman
Quote:
§179 But Morgoth hated the new lights and was for a while confounded by this unlooked-for stroke of the Valar. Then he assailed Tilion, sending spirits of shadow against him, and there was strife in Ilmen beneath the paths of the stars, and Tilion was the victor: as he ever yet hath been, though still the pursuing darkness overtakes him at whiles. But Arien Morgoth feared with a great fear, and dared not to come nigh her, having indeed no longer the power. For as he grew in malice, and sent forth from himself the evil that he conceived in lies and creatures of wickedness, his power passed into them and was dispersed, and he himself became ever more earth-bound, unwilling to issue from his dark strongholds. With shadow therefore he hid himself and his servants from Arien, the glance of whose eyes they could not long endure, and the lands nigh his dwelling were shrouded in fumes and great clouds.
Quote:
4) On p.25, in the second full paragraph, Beor speaks saying, "A darkness lies behind us; and we have turned our backs on it, and we do not desire to return thither even in thought. Westwards our hearts have been turned, and we believe that there we shall find Light." [A very similar passage, yet not an exact one, is in the published Silmarillion on p.141 (Hardback).]
The one that I found is this:
From War of the Jewels: Later Quentas 2
Quote:
§8 Now the Eldar were beyond all other peoples skilled in tongues; and Felagund discovered also that he could read in the minds of Men such thoughts as they wished to reveal in speech, so that their words were easily interpreted. It was not long therefore before he could converse with Bëor; and while he dwelt with him they spoke much together. But when Felagund questioned Bëor concerning the arising of Men and their journeys, Bëor would say little; and indeed he knew little, for the fathers of his people had told few tales of their past and a silence had fallen upon their memory.
$9 'A darkness lies behind us,' Bëor said; 'and we have turned our backs on it, and we do not desire to return thither even in thought. Westwards our hearts have been turned, and we believe that there we shall find Light.'
And from the Published Silmarillion: Of the Coming of Men into the West
Quote:
Now the Eldar were beyond all other peoples skilled in tongues; and Felagund discovered also that he could read in the minds of Men such thoughts as they wished to reveal in speech, so that their words were easily interpreted. It is said also that these Men had long had dealings with the Dark Elves east of the mountains, and from them had learned much of their speech; and since all the languages of the Quendi were of one origin, the language of Bëor and his folk resembled the Elven-tongue in many words and devices. It was not long therefore before Felagund could hold converse with Bëor; and while he dwelt with him they spoke much together. But when he questioned him concerning the arising of Men and their journeys, Bëor would say little; and indeed he knew little, for the fathers of his people had told few tales of their past and a silence had fallen upon their memory. 'A darkness lies behind us,' Bëor said; 'and we have turned our backs upon it, and we do not desire to return thither even in thought. Westwards our hearts have been turned, and we believe that there we shall find Light.'
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Last edited by Maédhros; 04-28-2007 at 10:47 AM.
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Old 04-28-2007, 08:09 PM   #5
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You are great Maedhros. Thank you for looking those up.
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Old 04-28-2007, 11:11 PM   #6
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2) The next one is right after that on p.15, where Fingolfin says to Morgoth, "Come forth, thou coward king, to fight with thine own hand! Den dweller, wielder of thralls, liar and lurker, foe of Gods and Elves, come! For I would see thy craven face." [Since he uses the word "Gods" I assume it is one of the earlier versions of the story].
From The Grey Annals
Quote:
§155 Now Fingolfin, King of the Noldor, beheld (as him seemed) the utter ruin of his people, and the defeat beyond redress of all their houses, and he was filled with wrath and despair. Therefore he did on his silver arms, and took his white helm, and his sword Ringil, and his blue shield set with a star of crystal, and mounting upon Rochallor his great steed he rode forth alone and none might restrain him. And he passed over the Anfauglith like a wind amid the dust, and all that beheld his onset fled in amaze, deeming that Oromë himself was come, for a great madness of ire was upon him, so that his eyes shone like the eyes of the Valar. Thus he came alone to Angband's gate and smote upon it once again, and sounding a challenge upon his silver horn he called Morgoth himself to come forth to combat, crying: 'Come forth, thou coward king, to fight with thine own hand! Den-dweller, wielder of thralls, liar and lurker, foe of Gods and Elves, come! For I would see thy craven face.'
Quote:
5) On p.280, third full paragraph, CT says that he has "said elsewhere" of his father that, "with the completion of the the great 'intrusion' and departure of The Lord of the Rings, it seems that he returned to the Elder Days with a desire to take up again the far more ample scale with which he had begun long before, in The Book of Lost Tales..." [The quote goes further on p.280].
From the War of the Jewels: The Later Quenta Silmarillion
Quote:
In these versions my father was drawing on (while also of course continually developing and extending) long works that already existed in prose and verse, and in the Quenta Silmarillion he perfected that characteristic tone, melodious, grave, elegiac, burdened with a sense of loss and distance in time, which resides partly, as I believe, in the literary fact that he was drawing down into a brief compendious history what he could also see in far more detailed, immediate, and dramatic form. With the completion of the great 'intrusion' and departure of The Lord of the Rings, it seems that he returned to the Elder Days with a desire to take up again the far more ample scale with which he had begun long before, in The Book of Lost Tales. The completion of the Quenta Silmarillion remained an aim; but the 'great tales', vastly developed from their original forms, from which its later chapters should be derived were never achieved.
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Last edited by Maédhros; 04-28-2007 at 11:17 PM.
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Old 04-30-2007, 10:11 AM   #7
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I really owe you, thanks.
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